Had an electrician visit...

[Patrick1]

Hello everyone!

I had an electrician take a look at my house panel/meter and he told me that my main panel had no ground wire, but it was grounded
via the conduit that comes from the meter. The meter does have a green ground wire.
The incoming service, from the utility company, he said was only 100A even though the breakers says 125A.
Is this true?
If I add a panel with 200A breakers, will I get the 200A?

How does this affect the way I should wire my 2 EG4 6500 split phase.

I am planning on adding a 3 pole double throw after the meter (wires will run into the "Sub-Station" (separate room from the main house), there I will install the 3 pole switch, also a new panel.
I may have to rewire the hole house again, (it is an old house, and parts of the house has no electricity working.)
If I re-wire the hole house, should I run the new wires to the Sub-Station room, and from there to a panel to the house?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[FilterGuy]

The incoming service, from the utility company, he said was only 100A even though the breakers says 125A.
Is this true?

How did he determine the incoming service is 100A? You might find the service size on your electric bill. If not you could call the electric company. Having said that, an install that old probably is 100A or less.

If I add a panel with 200A breakers, will I get the 200A?

The service rating reflects several things (Utility Transformer size, service wire size, meeter size, etc). You would need to get the utility to say whether they can change it to a larger service (and they are likely to charge you to do so)

I am planning on adding a 3 pole double throw after the meter (wires will run into the "Sub-Station" (separate room from the main house), there I will install the 3 pole switch, also a new panel.

I am not following the description.

are you planning on being able to switch grid power back and forth from the old panel to the new panel or are you planning on being able to switch the existing panel between grid power and power from the 'sub station'?

A diagram of the plans would be very helpful.

A few questions:

Is the 'substation' attached to the house or is it a separate structure?
What brand breaker box is that?

 

[Patrick1]

How did he determine the incoming service is 100A? You might find the service size on your electric bill. If not you could call the electric company. Having said that, an install that old probably is 100A or less.


The service rating reflects several things (Utility Transformer size, service wire size, meeter size, etc). You would need to get the utility to say whether they can change it to a larger service (and they are likely to charge you to do so)


I am not following the description.

are you planning on being able to switch grid power back and forth from the old panel to the new panel or are you planning on being able to switch the existing panel between grid power and power from the 'sub station'?

A diagram of the plans would be very helpful.

A few questions:

Is the 'substation' attached to the house or is it a separate structure?
What brand breaker box is that?

Thanks for the help FilterGuy.

The electrician just said that it is 100A service. I looked at my electric bill, but could not find the info there.

The "Sub-Station" is a separate structure at the patio. Approx. 70ft from the meter.
I was planning on doing it like Texican did https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/inverters-jpg.122419/, but with the EG4s,
unless I have to rewire the main house, (I do not know at this time if I will have to or not, the electrician will check current condition of the existing wires), If I am forced to re-wire the hole house, I was wondering if it's better to send the new wiring to the Sub-Station panel (becoming the main panel), and then wiring back to a sub panel in the house.

The main house panel is a "Linsco" (over 40 years old).

 

[Patrick1]

Maybe Zinsco?

 

[400bird]

That's Zinsco for sure. Search about Zinsco and fire hazards. I tore mine out.

 

[Danke]

I’d call your utility. I was surprised when I called mine to find out I had 400A service. It is a 60 year old duplex home with two 100A breaker panels.

 

[dougbert]

That's Zinsco for sure. Search about Zinsco and fire hazards. I tore mine out.

probably why I have never heard of them, not that I have lots of knowledge

 

[Patrick1]

That's Zinsco for sure. Search about Zinsco and fire hazards. I tore mine out.

Wow thanks for the info. Will need to replace it ASAP.
Perhaps that's the reason parts of the house has no electricity...

 

[RCinFLA]

Using metal conduit for ground return is not allowed in electrical code. Must be a separate ground wire. Conduit end bushing clamps have a nasty habit of loosening up over time.

In most locations, everything on residential side of weather head, with the exception of actual meter, is homeowner responsibility. This also includes meter support box and its socket. Learned that lesson when tree branch fell and yanked on utility feed line breaking one of meter socket support arms within outside meter box.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I wasn't familiar with what they looked like, so the first picture had me scratching my head. But, I've heard the name. As soon as I saw the panel label "Zinsco" my alarm bells went off. You're definitely going to want to gut that out and replace it.

Using metal conduit for ground return is not allowed in electrical code. Must be a separate ground wire. Conduit end bushing clamps have a nasty habit of loosening up over time.

In most locations, everything on residential side of weather head, with the exception of actual meter, is homeowner responsibility. This also includes meter support box and its socket. Learn that lesson when tree branch fell and yanked on utility feed line breaking one of meter socket support arms within outside meter box.

Conduit used to be the OK ground path return. You'll find a lot of stuff installed without a dedicated ground wire, if it is a conduit run from the main panel all the way down the branch circuits (i.e. older commercial stuff). Not that you'll typically find that in a residential setting.

 

[FilterGuy]

If I am following the pictures and description, this is what you currently have:


Is this correct?

It may have been to code when it was installed, but clearly is not up to any recent version of the code. If you are going to rip out the main box, I would at least bring the meter box, earth grounding and main breaker box up to code. Different localities have different rules about grandfathering. When (if?) you get permits to do the work, they may require additional upgrades.


If I am understanding what you want to do, it would look something like this:


If you also want to run the grid to the 'substation' , there will need to be a breaker for it. That kinda forces the meter/disconnect to be more of a
'full' breaker box with multiple breaker slots.





One advantage of doing this is that it allows the non-critical loads to be on a different panel. Also notice that I drew the meter outside of the main box. There are breaker boxes that have the meter integrated, but if I was going to replace the current meter box, I would keep the breaker box and meter box separate

I was wondering if it's better to send the new wiring to the Sub-Station panel (becoming the main panel), and then wiring back to a sub panel in the house.

I wouldn't. I see no advantage in that but a lot of extra cost in wire and conduit.
.

 

[FilterGuy]

BTW: If you do not rewire the house and add ground wires, I would recommend putting in ground fault breakers for as many circuits as you can. (Some appliances don't play nice with GFCI so may not be able to do all of the circuits)

 

[FilterGuy]

After thinking about it some, I realized that if you moved the transfer switch to the 'substation' it could look like this:



However, that just moves the complexity to the substation. I think I like the idea of being able to isolate from the substation at the main structure.

 

[FilterGuy]

BTW: Please study the requirements for accessible disconnects for both the Grid power and inverter power. Emergency personnel needs to be able to de-energize the structure.

 

[Bkord]

Zinsco = bad

 

[Patrick1]

If I am following the pictures and description, this is what you currently have:

View attachment 124372
Is this correct?

It may have been to code when it was installed, but clearly is not up to any recent version of the code. If you are going to rip out the main box, I would at least bring the meter box, earth grounding and main breaker box up to code. Different localities have different rules about grandfathering. When (if?) you get permits to do the work, they may require additional upgrades.


If I am understanding what you want to do, it would look something like this:
View attachment 124380

If you also want to run the grid to the 'substation' , there will need to be a breaker for it. That kinda forces the meter/disconnect to be more of a
'full' breaker box with multiple breaker slots.


View attachment 124389


One advantage of doing this is that it allows the non-critical loads to be on a different panel. Also notice that I drew the meter outside of the main box. There are breaker boxes that have the meter integrated, but if I was going to replace the current meter box, I would keep the breaker box and meter box separate

I wouldn't. I see no advantage in that but a lot of extra cost in wire and conduit.
.

The first drawing is correct.
Trying to decide between the second or third drawing.
Not replacing the meter box. Will replace the Home panel and add ground wire.
Will keep meter box and breaker box separate.

 

[Patrick1]

After thinking about it some, I realized that if you moved the transfer switch to the 'substation' it could look like this:
View attachment 124392


However, that just moves the complexity to the substation. I think I like the idea of being able to isolate from the substation at the main structure.

Basically, that is/was the plan.

The 3pole switch is going to be at the substation. But still like the idea of being able to isolate from the substation at the main house.

 

[FilterGuy]

Is Zinsco the same as Federal Pacific?

 

[Danke]

Is Zinsco the same as Federal Pacific?

Isn’t electrical grandfathered? My brother just recently upgraded his panel from fuses when he did an EV charger install. But had insurance before. Is this just something just for a new buyer of an older home to get insurance with an outdated panel? Then what about all circuits and outlets, etc?

 

[FilterGuy]

Isn’t electrical grandfathered? My brother just recently upgraded his panel from fuses when he did an EV charger install. But had insurance before. Is this just something just for a new buyer of an older home to get insurance with an outdated panel? Then what about all circuits and outlets, etc?

For meeting NEC code. Kinda yes, Kinda no. For the most part, if you don't make any changes there are no upgrade requirements. There are places in the code that says if a particular type of equipment is replaced or even repaired that part of the system must be brought up to a particular code. However, I have never seen anything in the code that requires upgrades to unrelated parts of the system.

Local building departments are a whole different story. They can require upgrades to unrelated items. Some building departments figure they can require anything they want when you ask for a permit. I once had to add a sewer cleanout at the street just to get a permit for a room extension that had nothing to do with the sewer. When I asked why they just said "Because it is their policy". (I knew better than to try to fight it..... they have all the power)

In the OP's case, I could easily see an inspector requiring the whole panel to be swapped out if anything at all is done to the panel. (and, IMHO, it would not be that unreasonable of a requirement)

When it comes to insurance, it is entirely up to the insurance company. They can refuse to ensure it or require the owner to pay more if it is not upgraded. Often, they just assume what is in a house based on when it was built and the owner does not even know they are paying more because of the assumptions. My son just got his fire insurance significantly reduced by adding an earthquake gas valve on his 1914 house. (Earthquake valves are required for new construction where he lives). He added the earthquake valve because he wanted to, but the guy he hired to do it told him to check with his insurance.... and sure enough, he got a reduction in his rates. (No one even asked about the gas when he first bought the house)