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So as many of you may know I posted a thread about my neighbor having an issue with his EG4 18k Inverters. System Information: 60 Panels 2 EG4 18k in parallel No Battery Summary of the issue: When the grid connection is removed, the inverters would begin to provide 400v to the mains input side...

Hey I just wanted to share my setup. I have posted my plans on here, received critical feedback and made corrections based on that. Thank you all so much for helping. I made this overview video I figured you all would enjoy. Feedback welcome. I would rather know if I have done something wrong...

The factory cable wasn't long enough. I don't know how you could follow the spacing requirements and have it be long enough and still be in the raceway. The units should never have went into parallel mode. They should have reported communications wasn't proper and stayed in error state. An...

Ok, there is still an elephant in this perverable room and we are all dying to know the answer to... What or how is making 400v+ on the mains input side? The inverters saw themselves as being in parallel, but the comms cable wasn't correct. I would love to hear a reasonable technical...

He did try to test. When the very first test was executed, 400v were sent to the appliances in the home. I was called after that. No inverter should be sending 400v back towards the grid for any reason Unintentional islanding clearly doesn't work (Which includes human error) If the...

I am in-flight with building a 50kw solar system to take my house completely off the grid. (Or at least turn the power company into my backup source of energy). I plan to update this thread and post will all of the build videos. I figured I would start a thread here to talk about it, but I am...

It feels awesome to remove the power company as a dependency from your life doesn't it. Congratulations!

I posted this a couple pages back, but it's worth saying again.. If this can happen with a crossover cable.. can it happen with any type of cable that gets damaged over the 20 year span these things are likely to be installed for? What happens when a mouse nibbles pin 4 in your ethernet cable...

I would consider this problem #1 These units shouldn't have went into parallel to begin with.

What is pictured here is not the crossover type that this cable was The actual answer is right here - https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-18kpv-what-not-to-do-in-parallel.84679/page-21#post-1108780 Thank you for sharing the pinout, it all makes sense now. Pins 4 and 5 are straight through...

There can't be a condition in which the inverter can create a 400v island... Bad comms cable or not. The inverters should have tripped offline when the appropriate voltage range was exceeded. They should have also tripped offline with abnormal phase conditions. They have 2 full seconds to...

I know @Will Prowse already did an F150 video quite some time ago. I think there have been some updates since then (hopefully). I bought one a few weeks ago and I wanted to share my setup. I am using an MPP-8048 and 11.4kw autotransformer (completely disconnected from grid) to function as an...

Well I have a youtube video I put together as a demo. I only have the neutral leg disconnect circuit together at the moment. The video is still processing, but here is the link. This is a prototype and not even close to being ready for production. Please heed this warning. I think this...

Here is my final revision of the neutral protection side of this chart. I hope you all find it useful. The chart is open for discussion and rejections. I am also in process of making a build video so you can see how its put together in the real world.

Considering that most people will only complain when something goes wrong and never say anything when something goes right, you guys must be killing it.

My biggest concern here isn't exactly just explicitly cross over cables - what happens if a pin goes bad in a standard cable? This absolutely happens and I see it all the time. Idk if these failure modes are tested. Does someone out there have the spare gear to test with? (This is 100% pure...

From a reseller perspective I think SS is good. EG4 on the other hand still should maybe let us know they are aware of the issue at hand and are working the firmware to ensure this isn't an issue in the future. A. The units should not enable parallel mode unless the proper comms cable is used...

Then people would complain that have to buy a "special cable" *Coughs in victron*

I guess this is really my focus of concern. If a crossover cable can cause this failure mode - can a failed cable cause this failure mode? I don't know the answer to this question. One thing I have NOT brought up and should have sooner These particular inverters could be bad and this issue...

Hopefully it fails harmlessly, even better would be a PID loop that checks the voltage on the grid side terminals and shuts down if nominal voltages are exceed.

I missed the part in UL 1741 where inverters can feed back to the grid when there is no input.

Me too. I think people may have been on the right track with the parallel thing. I don't think anyone saw this one coming. Maybe we will get an answer, maybe not. I guess if you use what they ship and configure it correctly, there are no problems - so any answer would be awesome, but not...

I think we stop at a Full BOM and a working circuit that keeps peoples houses from burning down. The requirements for that are pretty simple IMO. If the neutral leg fails, turn off the things. If the utility power is being passed through, don't bond the neutral leg to the ground in the...

Then I guess we can at this point agree to disagree. I think it's irrelevant. UL1741 and IEEE1547 say what they say. One of those items on that list is the inverter must disconnect (shutdown) when voltage or phase is out of range for the US grid. It doesn't say anything about comms cables or...

Until about 6pm yesterday, none of us knew that the comms cable was the issue. It's honestly not even something I would have thought to check, but as stated in the other thread we were just going to take directions from the tower and do exactly as EG4 said. The first thing they said to do was...

Here is the overview for my RV project. I wanted to get the generator away from where I sleep, and my wife has standards - so A/C is a must have. I built this system with the idea that I could run one A/C and my fridge overnight with no generator noises.

I am always interested to see people saying that this should be more simple than it is, however I see no diagrams, videos or parts lists. Not to say this can't be made simpler - I am sure it can. The most basic understanding has to be we are just a bunch of amateurs and the work is being done...

High load peak of summer was 4500kwh a month when I started this project. During a cold snap in February of 22(I think), I hit 5000 kwh. It was at that point I knew I needed to do something, anything to make this house more sustainable. That number is just crazy. I had old R22 based units for...

I am very happy so far with my units. I even wired in a circuit level transfer switch to my shop and I am testing out how well that works. After a 30-60 day test period, if all is well I will be hooking the same system up for the rest of my house. I have to pretty much rebuild my whole system...

Here is the build video. I shot this a couple different times and I have found I suck at making good quality videos. @rfbuehler Yea, that is on the docket next. I was focused on getting a reliable system that will shut down in the event the neutral is lost. Next up is over temperature...

I just wanted to share my experience with everyone in hopes they will avoid using sellers who engage in misleading business practices. The story starts on the 28th of Dec 2022. I ordered two EEL 48V 16S Server Rack Battery DIY Unit BOX Stackable Type battery cases. I found these units in the...

I mean that doesn't really matter though. How is a comms cable responsible to grid loss detection? Here is a great read on unintentional islanding in which they call out human error. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy22osti/77782.pdf

If there is an EMP, energy is the last thing people in the blast radius need to worry about. I would worry more about the next rocket that is already inbound hot.

It's covered under unintentional islanding. A Primer on the Unintentional Islanding Protection Requirement in IEEE Std 1547-2018 https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy22osti/77782.pdf Section 6.1 Abnormal conditions can arise on the Area EPS to which the DER shall appropriately respond. This response...

Has anyone let Current Connected or Signature Solar know? They may want to drop a warning label in the box before shipment to customers while this is in the pipeline. I don't have any contacts at either place.

There was no way for the installer to know this kind of event would occur. There was no way to know that it wasn't wired correctly. It was utterly undocumented. It just said plug in an RJ45 cable. No mention of a pinout or wire type. If someone doesn't work with these types of cables every day...

(Two posts because two different points) How do you explain the inverters not shutting down to the voltage being out of range and out of phase? Is that the installers fault too?

Just for anyone else that happens to search this string and land on this page. The issue was battery monitor improperly flashed the BMS and the firmware cannot boot. To fix this, I hooked up my BMS to a benchtop power supply, opened up battery monitor on the firmware flashing screen, set the...

This cable is used for connecting T586A to T586B devices. It's a commercial off the shelf "ethernet cable" Finally, an answer as to why it happened. This brings up more questions. What happens when two inverters are in parallel and the factory cable is used, but pins other than 4 and 5 are...

Thank you for sharing Jarrett and also letting us know that an RCA is in fact being worked on your end.

Part of my regular maintenance schedule is waking around with my thermal to check everything. Takes 5 minutes.

If they did update it, I would say that is absolutely a good thing. Positive action by them to correct this issue! Here is an older version of that manual (which obviously are subject to updates - no shade) https://sunwatts.com/content/manual/EG4-18KPV-12LV-Manual-1.3.0.pdf

Yea, I mean anything would be better than nothing. I think this could probably be handled in software though - a simple check of the pins and throw an error if it's not right could put a stop to this.

Here is the spec sheet I will reference from - https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/GROWATT/1519004-specs.pdf 7000w Solar Input Maximum Total 150VDC I don't know anything about your panels, so you need to do this math based on what the labels say. Lets use a value of 48v's per panel...

I wouldn't call it negligence - but the inverters do operate outside of UL 1741 They should have tripped offline when the voltage / phase they clearly recognized was out of range. No comms cable required for that. Yea, I agree.. We don't need to get too carried away. I am sure they are over...

I couldn't have gotten here without this community. No doubts at all about that.

I am in the T568B camp, your T568A diagram is confusing me. :p:ROFLMAO::LOL:

For what it’s worth once we get the OP’s question worked out, I planned to also show how to do this with a genset input on the GW5KES and tie back to the main panel with a simple interlock. I also wanted to show people how to setup this system as an SDS so it could be used as a backup (or...

Not to totally derail things, but have you seen this before? It does completely solve the ground / neutral bonding problem in a UL listed way. Turns the solar system into a full SDS, and may be more inline with what an inspection might be looking for. Portable Gensets aren’t UL listed that I...

Just that cable. It's in the video.

@EG4_Jarrett Would it be possible to get the pinout of what pin does what inside the parallel connectors? If possible I would like to run this to the ground. A crossover cable shouldn't have allowed the inverters to even communicate. Maybe you guys are already working that, but it would be...

Ok, here is a video to show what the SGP 12KW UL units do. Neutral and Ground are surely not bonded when they are turned off and disconnected. IDK why you would think there would be a 60v difference in potential between ground and neutral when unbonded - but when the difference is millivolts or...

Yea and it may just take them some time. I don't think that is unfair to give them time to replicate the issue.

There is a 2+ volt difference when on battery power. If they were bonded, the difference would be zero or near zero. (in the milli volt spectrum) There is no specification for voltage potential differences when they are unbonded, but there surely is some reasonable expectation when they are. I...

That is why I am asking for an actual RCA. They owe me literally nothing - this isn't my gear or my install... However I am super curious, so I can't help but ask.

This thread is 131 pages deep. Could this thread be broken up at this point into focus areas?

Yea I am definitely not trying to minimze the situation. It's pretty serious. The best case scenario happened here and @canadianintruder had some equipment fried (which something should be done for this). If his loved one was touching the wrong thing at the wrong moment, this could be a much...

Here are the next two videos in the series.

You aren't wrong.

I did have an oscope in the mix this time and video of both scenarios. If anyone is interested in that, I am happy to share the videos.

If that is the argument you are trying to make - Where is that covered in the installation manual? How is an installer supposed to know (in the version that was shipped in the unit). by all rights the installer did use the correct cable. It said RJ45 and he used an RJ45. If there was a specific...

The purpose of this thread wasn't to call out EG4 or shoot daggers at them. It also wasn't to shift blame onto some installer that didn't know what a crossover cable even is - The purpose is to make people aware of how serious it is to not use the correct cabling when hooking up the inverters...

I see there have been a couple of questions about using the chargeverter in different ways. Can I charge while the inveter is discharging? Well if you had a non-all in one system - this is how they work. A solar charge controller would be charging the battery at the same time an inverter is...

Oh it works just fine.

Glad my oscope is rated for 600v. I can't remember who said that I needed it, but they were surely spot on

Just a thought, but it's missed in the manual that using anything other than the shipped cable could result in injury or death... So how would an installer even know? I think the intent here is limiting exposure for those in the damage path if something was to turn sideways. There could always...

The way his system is wired, the damage occured only from the grid input side. I think you missed the other thread that went into this in detail.

Oh I didn't give up on them, they are still in the shop. That system has been in production for 6 months with no issues or hiccups. This system is to power the house. I am going offgrid, bite by bite.

I don't know that the type of cable or connector is really the issue though. The inverter should always trip offline when volatge is detected on the grid side terminals that are out of range.

I am accounting for the system degrading over time. I also am planning for the coming migration to all electric cars/trucks. So will all that power be used up front... No, but it will be in time. With such a complex large system, I want to just get the energy needs of today and tomorrow baked...

I did a video on this. It works great! I wish the chargeverters were less noisy.

Episode 2 is posted in the OP. Please let me know what everyone thinks of the shorter video format. I have been putting together longer videos, but it seems that very few actually watch more than 2 minutes. I just want to make the content people want to see, the way they want to see it: so...

Strange. My Chargeveters ramp up the power, they don't just instantly go to 100 amps. Maybe the model I have has the requested feature of the OP. I use mine for a "zero transfer time" setup, where I am always on battery and the Chargeveter is started via the dry contacts mean for generator Start...

I think Will just did a video on this exact issue -

I don't disagree and the system owner is fully correct for wanting it to work right. With the imperfect world we live in, it was just a suggestion to get the max out of his system without having to put in much more. 200k is a crazy amount of money to spend on a system and I would personally be...

Also I would like to point out I did NOT oversee this install, I was called down when the issue happened to get to the bottom of it.

I usually email the shippers and tell them anything but FedEx. They suck I had one shipment where they stole all of the copper tubing for my minisplit project and then rewrapped it and reorganized the load so I couldn't see. I learned a good lesson that day - unwrap it while its still on the...

I use a SE facing vertically mounted set of panels. Here is what I am getting from them. There will be 6 more panels mounted beside this array for battery charging only. I would go all the way up with 8 panels, but I can't find anyone to help me get the job done.

With cables that aren't properly shielded or spaced this is true. I worked in a tier 1 facility for 5 years and when possible data and power were kept away from each other. When not possible, you just use the highest quality data cable you can. What is your suggestion for protecting a...

I absolutely need every single one of them

The difference is 6+ volts between neutral and ground when in pass through mode. The continuity part of the meter is also showing no connection. Here is the video.

Make sure you check that parallel cable. Look at the pins and make sure, not doing so could turn out very badly

Can't we just put GFCI breakers on the outputs to handle that? It should trip if there is a break in the off grid G/N bond? I will have to test that theory, but I think that would fit the bill same as it does in a service entrance load center. Also I had some parts start coming in, so I...

I used a soft start for my 3 ton and it worked fine with my GW5KES.

I guess I hear both sides of the argument with this. On one hand, I completely agree - this failure mode is pretty obscure. There is no way QA would even know to test something like this and a software patch for the issue is probable. On the other hand, unforseen things should throw the...

I will let @canadianintruder explain what happened before I got there. The very first test is how this issue was discovered if I understood it correctly. The outputs were disabled. This all happens on the backfeed side

I have this exact setup and I take in 240V and connect to 240V out and then it hits the midpoint transformer. Here are some links https://diysolarforum.com/threads/design-review-growatt-spf-5000-es-grid-backup-neutral-bonding.29717/

If you do use the right cable and one (or many) of the pins goes bad - it's very likely to experience the exact same issue. Can Bus is up, but the parallel signals aren't. The way I interpert what you are saying is the installer bear's 100% responsibility for this issue. If that isn't what you...

Here is a snapshot of my power bill over the last two years. Share your success with your off grid(ish) systems. System was commissioned in August and making full power Sep 1 of 2023.

I figured I would post up part's I know for sure will work. That said, you could surely scale back some of the components and save some $$$ for a 1/1 setup. I figure you could probably get this down to 250 dollars if you really wanted to shop. We still need to add in temp monitoring and it...

EPIC!!! I can wait to build a real world prototype of this design and test it out.

Well that 30 amp rating doesn't cover the 80% rule, so it's more like a 30amp circuit is good for 24 amps(ish)

Darn, now I have to source some UL listed fast blow fuses. LOL I do also have a question about the direct connect between the inverter disconnect service panel and that ground. Can someone explain why that is there and why it would be needed? Won't the ground come through the GW5KES. Also I...

I only have a growatt MIN11400TL-XH-US (which I purchased from SS), I don't have any other gear that feeds back to the grid. If the community wants to fund that I am happy to do the testing. It would make for some great entertainment for sure. I am not trying to throw shade at EG4. I have a...