diy solar

diy solar

Solar for poor people?

Mattb4

Mattb4

Solar Wizard
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
4,073
Location
NW AR
I see in the news this morning this interesting tidbit
April 22 (Reuters) - President Joe Biden on Monday will celebrate Earth Day by announcing $7 billion in grants for residential solar projects that will power nearly a million low-income households, the White House said.
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Well dandy. Not sure exactly how this can be achieved since your average low income household likely lacks a electrically knowledgeable individual to install or operate PV. Than there is the fact that many lower income folks do not own their dwelling and it might be an apartment or some other mass housing where no space for solar exists. Rural low income folks may be an exception but typically such government handouts are geared to the urban populations.

Strange since as a low income person I can't get a tax refund on solar. This latest giveaway also brings into question of is it only for grid tie setups? That would be a problem for the utility companies to deal with. Many already are trying their best to avoid more interconnect agreements.

At any rate maybe it will be like the government free cheese giveaway back in the 80'S Anyone that wanted to could go pick up some government free cheese. Free solar panels would be nice.
 
Mattb4 said:
I see in the news this morning this interesting tidbit

Well dandy. Not sure exactly how this can be achieved since your average low income household likely lacks a electrically knowledgeable individual to install or operate PV. Than there is the fact that many lower income folks do not own their dwelling and it might be an apartment or some other mass housing where no space for solar exists. Rural low income folks may be an exception but typically such government handouts are geared to the urban populations.

Strange since as a low income person I can't get a tax refund on solar. This latest giveaway also brings into question of is it only for grid tie setups? That would be a problem for the utility companies to deal with. Many already are trying their best to avoid more interconnect agreements.

At any rate maybe it will be like the government free cheese giveaway back in the 80'S Anyone that wanted to could go pick up some government free cheese. Free solar panels would be nice.
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It's just another pay-for-votes program like the Obama phone back in the day.
 
NC_hydro said:
It's just another pay-for-votes program like the Obama phone back in the day.
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The free cell phones and connection was fairly easy to implement though. Little harder to setup a functioning PV system. Lots of places have permit requirements that must be met. So the votes it might pay for seem to be rather limited to a small group.
 
It's very hard to create an incentive scheme that doesn't end up regressive. Probably impossible. And NEM grandfathering makes it so much worse, cementing the regression for 20 years and leaving everyone except the upper middle class with the bill for a grid in crisis.
 
Mattb4 said:
The free cell phones and connection was fairly easy to implement though. Little harder to setup a functioning PV system. Lots of places have permit requirements that must be met. So the votes it might pay for seem to be rather limited to a small group.
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In this scenario, it's more of the "climate change" virtue signaling to get a warm fuzzy rise from a certain mental "demographic" in addition to the people getting solar.
 
More cost effective to install utility-scale solar (at cost of $1/W vs. $3/W for rooftop). Then provide electricity to poor people at reduced "Lifeline" rates.

Rooftop solar makes little sense. Except when utility rates are $0.60/kWh and we can make a long-term investment in solar, making our own power for $0.10/kWh (based on turnkey cost of $3/W.)

Is the grid really that expensive to maintain? Wholesale power production costs $0.05/kWh for the utility to buy, but maintaining the distribution grid costs $0.55/kWh? (We're told any backfeed we put into the grid is only worth pennies.)

Or is it closer to the Community Choice aggregation I have in Oakland, where "Generation" is a flat $0.156/kWh and "Distribution" paid to PG&E costs more if I use more, $0.358/kWh for Tier-1 and $0.447/kWh for Tier-2?
 
It will probably be another centrally located solar farm but the power generated by it will be "free" to those low income households.

I seriously doubt they're going to be installing solar onto single-wide mobiles and tenements.


Same thing as the option to buy "green power". Braindead people thinking that electricity on the same grid can be split.
 
Here is the program in all its glory:
Today the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced the Solar for All competition, which will award up to 60 grants to states, territories, tribal governments, municipalities, and eligible nonprofits to create and expand solar programs for low-income and disadvantaged communities.

looks like you beat me to it!!
 
sollap said:
Looks like this program was put into motion last year. The EPA was put in charge. They already picked the 60 winners of the grants.
Here they are: https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all
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Checkthisout said:
It will probably be another centrally located solar farm but the power generated by it will be "free" to those low income households.

I seriously doubt they're going to be installing solar onto single-wide mobiles and tenements.
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Oh yes they will!

"... to install thousands of solar systems on the roofs of low-income and disadvantaged homeowners, on the roofs and sites of managed permanently affordable apartment buildings, and as residential-serving community arrays that will provide meaningful benefits to the homeowners, affordable housing residents, and renters."

Checkthisout said:
Same thing as the option to buy "green power". Braindead people thinking that electricity on the same grid can be split.
Click to expand...

Therefore no reason to even make them "community" arrays. Just a different utility rate schedule, if providing a subsidy is desired.
 
Checkthisout said:
...


Same thing as the option to buy "green power". Braindead people thinking that electricity on the same grid can be split.
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It can! My Electrical filter (E-Pure) removes dirty power contaminates and only allows pure green electricity to flow to your devices. A marvel of compact design and simple installation means anyone can attach it to the front of the electric panel in their home. It comes with double sided tape for peel and install simplicity.

On sale now for $19.95 (tax and handling not included).
 
Hedges said:
Oh yes they will!

"... to install thousands of solar systems on the roofs of low-income and disadvantaged homeowners, on the roofs and sites of managed permanently affordable apartment buildings, and as residential-serving community arrays that will provide meaningful benefits to the homeowners, affordable housing residents, and renters."
Click to expand...

Yeah I went into the link and read that. It gives me warm vibes knowing that subsidized renters will get to heat their Ramen and curl their hair with electricity generated by rooftop solar. I mean what a massive life improvement for us all.


Hedges said:
Therefore no reason to even make them "community" arrays. Just a different utility rate schedule, if providing a subsidy is desired.
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Yeah and they get free solar while I have to go to work and wait months for 18650 battery store and Inxeption spring sale in order to be able to get my solar. 🙁

So landlords who currently provide utilities as part of rent will now get free electricity.
 
Hedges said:
More cost effective to install utility-scale solar (at cost of $1/W vs. $3/W for rooftop). Then provide electricity to poor people at reduced "Lifeline" rates.

Rooftop solar makes little sense. Except when utility rates are $0.60/kWh and we can make a long-term investment in solar, making our own power for $0.10/kWh (based on turnkey cost of $3/W.)

Is the grid really that expensive to maintain? Wholesale power production costs $0.05/kWh for the utility to buy, but maintaining the distribution grid costs $0.55/kWh? (We're told any backfeed we put into the grid is only worth pennies.)

Or is it closer to the Community Choice aggregation I have in Oakland, where "Generation" is a flat $0.156/kWh and "Distribution" paid to PG&E costs more if I use more, $0.358/kWh for Tier-1 and $0.447/kWh for Tier-2?
Click to expand...
rooftop solar makes great sense, if the price were about $1/w like it is in the rest of the world
 
And here in the US it makes sense at $3/W for those of us paying $0.25 to $0.60/kWh.
So long as we have net metering, or otherwise can make use of most of the power produced.

But as state or federal clean energy strategy it makes no sense because utility scale power can be built for $1/W or less. 3x as much power available for the same money.

If a consumer pays $3/W for rooftop install and gets 30% tax credit, that's $0.90 reduction in Federal revenue.
For $1.00, the government could have built out utility scale solar, and sold the produced power recovering that cost plus profit.

Or, do nothing, and let utilities and other investors build the PV power plants.
 
Hedges said:
...

But as state or federal clean energy strategy it makes no sense ...
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If you are going to require government spending to make sense we are all in for a world of hurt. I am just happy when I can get a cut of it (Pardon, a fair share).
 
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