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EG4 18k PV back-feeding on GEN port

I'm chewing on these diagrams, thinking about this a bit - didn't want you hanging in the meantime. I thought I saw the problem but realized an error I made reading the diagram.
I realized recently why you jumped on this topic as quickly as you did since this back-feed of 18K GEN port (a consumer port, taking charge in to a producer port, pushing charge out) can be catastrophic to many. This also explains why the folks at support want so many details because the initial reaction is that a mistake was made somewhere, but the only change made after successfully charging the LLs was to transfer the house from the Enphase LOAD port to the 18k LOAD port. Keep in mind that the 18K software configuration is not in question, since they were given live access to the 18Ks settings during the support phone conversation.
 
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I realized recently why you jumped on this topic as quickly as you did since this back-feed of 18K GEN port (a consumer port, taking charge in to a producer port, pushing charge out) can be catastrophic to many. This also explains why the folks at support want so many details because the initial reaction is that a mistake was made somewhere, but the only change made after successfully charging the LLs was to transfer the house from the Enphase LOAD port to the 18k LOAD port. Keep in mind that the 18K software configuration is not in question, since they were given live access to the 18Ks settings during the phone conversation.
The gen port of the 18kpv can be configured as a load port, correct?
 
The gen port of the 18kpv can be configured as a load port, correct?
I'm still learning the nuances of the 18K and its certainly behaving this way, but not by my intent. I want the GEN port to take charge not to produce any as the LOAD port is designed to do.
 
I'm still learning the nuances of the 18K and its certainly behaving this way, but not by my intent. I want the GEN port to take charge not to produce any as the LOAD port is designed to do.
To rule it out, you do not have smart load enabled, correct?
 
@Gubman any interesting news on this in the past couple of days? I am on the verge of purchasing the 18k to replace my Outback system but I want to make sure my Generac Guardian 14k isn't going to be useless post install and I've run into a couple of concerning posts related to this tonight.
 
I am traveling for several more days, but itching to get back! I need a solution sooner than later since the EG batts are just sitting idle. If the 18k is going to simply replace your Outback and you are not running any other AC system (like I am) you should be fine - and hopefully I'm not going to eat my hat! The 18k is a very nice piece of hardware, but not knowing your system details I can only generalize.
 
I am traveling for several more days, but itching to get back! I need a solution sooner than later since the EG batts are just sitting idle. If the 18k is going to simply replace your Outback and you are not running any other AC system (like I am) you should be fine - and hopefully I'm not going to eat my hat! The 18k is a very nice piece of hardware, but not knowing your system details I can only generalize.
I do frequently have to run my generator to charge the batteries back up so that would be a crucial piece that needs to work, if that's what you mean by another AC system?
 
I do frequently have to run my generator to charge the batteries back up so that would be a crucial piece that needs to work, if that's what you mean by another AC system?
no, I have an Enphase AC battery pack that can take in or put out some crazy amperage (exact amount escapes me at this time) at 240v whereas a generator cannot take anything, just put amperage out. In my case, for whatever reason, the 18K is going in reverse (on the GEN port). If that was to happen to a generator, it will smoke and dance as one post mentioned earlier. I know the 18K can go in reverse - the mystery is why? Support does not have an answer at this time.
 
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quick update - after returning from trip, each battery was at 45.22v +/- .1v and SOC 48%?????? WTF!?!
batt45.22v as of240328-.jpg.Obviously nowhere close to 48% in reality. As soon as I began troubleshooting, the batts dropped to 0% SOC and the 18K would NOT stay on from GEN power so the day of testing was over.
SOC47%.jpg
SOC00%.jpg
I do not have a 48v charger - perhaps time to get one if this adventure keeps producing more surprises.
 
No 48v charger, yet (it is now on order), but PV input works so the batts are trickled & at 3% at this point. Tested further with support - no success. GEN port contacts refuse to close. Support created a trouble ticket and "promised" to call back. At this point I am stuck with a >$5K partially working AIO.
 
This is an example of what it is supposed to look like, when it works. Notice the SOC hitting the mark and the GEN flow "ramps down".last charge240311.jpg
 
No progress after a month ?
I'm considering an 18kpv but am now concerned about the GEN port.
 
Recently took possession of the 18K + 12 LL (v2) batts, running off-grid, AC coupled into an existing Enphase rollout with AC (4x10T) batteries.
18K settings follow the recommendations detailed in https://eg4electronics.com/backend/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/EG4-18KPV-12LV-Manual-2.0.2.pdf pages 25-26, wired as detailed on page 43 Diagram 4.9
In the beginning, I charged the LLs to 100% when the 18K was only connected via the GEN port. Happy with the result, I connected the 18K LOAD to the house and the following morning expecting to top off the LLs, the back-feeding was observed. The 18K back-feeds on the GEN port at about 45A on each leg, and slooooowly ramps down from there. I saw the wattage jump on the display coming out of the LL batteries - opposite of what is intended.

Has anyone observed this?
I called Signature Solar - they're scratching their heads after they connected remotely to review the settings. At this point, they, asked for a million details (pics, wiring diags, etc.) which I am compiling for them to help troubleshoot. Thought I'd throw this out at the community as well.

Would you be able to post multimeter readings of this?
 
Would you be able to post multimeter readings of this?
Sure. I'm offsite, need a few days. From memory, I had ~240V AC L1-L2 at the 18K GEN ports, same on the Enpower Smart Switch out, Enphase power limited to 12kW output, CA Rule21 for Outback Radian (per EG4 specs) on the profile. (see Mar 22, 2024 "3MASTER with LOAD")
 
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No progress after a month ?
I'm considering an 18kpv but am now concerned about the GEN port.
Aahhh, the annoying dilemma...
I'm traveling, so this will be the short version...
Ideally, I'd like the process to be fully automated (Enphase set the bar quite high at the onset), but haven't gotten to that point - yet.
Each time I contact Signature Solar (seller) I receive the same boilerplate reply. Last time it looked promising as a trouble ticket was assigned and "someone" was supposed to call back. Nothing ever happened. Either they're too busy, understaffed, or don't care.

What I observed - under ~20% SOC, the 18K behaves differently than > 20%. By differently, I mean it completely ignores the threshold settings I depend on. (Side note: I had SOC fall from ~47% to 0% in a matter of minutes, once, see above - WTF? not sure still - that's about a 28.8 kWh drop of all the batts, on the BMS most likely) Unfortunately, I'm looking for more stable behavior. The 18K is now like a chick who promises to call you, but you never know if/when she will do so. Enphase have never given me such grief since Nov. 2021 turn-up.

What I wanted to do originally, was to have the 18k pull from GEN, SOC allowing of course, and I can control the physical GEN hot connection using the Enphase IQ Load Controller when Enphase SOC reaches a certain range (sunny day, generating power) to prevent Enphase batts from draining to 0%. I can spice up the situation by having the 18K request GEN start and couple that with the IQ Load Controller. That will work, provided the 18K GEN ports close, which they now fail to do. This is not very complicated. I have 15.36 kVA at 240v, (peak 23.04 kVA) + 12.54 kVA at 240v when sunny to work with, so basically a very quiet generator as far as the 18K is concerned. This does work, or I should say did work for several days (see early descr.) I'm simply not convinced the 18K behavior is stable enough to do this.

Where I am at now: SOC allowing, Enphase closes a relay (via IQ Load Controller) and "sheds" load when passing a certain SOC threshold (sunny day) via a 240v AC to 48v DC 35A charger. I know, I know, Panel DC -> AC -> DC -> AC -> house, but it works, predictably, each sunny day (I have plenty more panels in storage and a shit ton of roof space remaining to install them). A minor nuisance is that the AC to DC charger goes quiet (0A) at random. That's a totally different, non-related behavior - yet another issue to deal with - easy to solve though, as it resets next day.

I'm experimenting with Telco power equipment at the moment (the Chargeverter runs on two such packs, in parallel) and if successful, I will simply use the existing charger as a "48v float" but rely solely on telco power packs, in 25A step increments (they are stupidly stable), as many as needed to potentially charge 120 kWh within a single day, similar to
.

In the future, I will purchase another 18k EG4 (or possibly a 18k LuxPower) + a batch of 60 kWh (and a few accessories while at it), but this time from current connected and work with them on the original issue as I feel they would be far more helpful/capable and interested in solving the unstable behavior. I don't particularly dislike the 18k, just wish it was more predictable in its behavior as presently I'm convinced that major bugs have yet to be worked out.
 
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Aahhh, the annoying dilemma...
I'm traveling, so this will be the short version...
Ideally, I'd like the process to be fully automated (Enphase set the bar quite high at the onset), but haven't gotten to that point - yet.
Each time I contact Signature Solar (seller) I receive the same boilerplate reply. Last time it looked promising as a trouble ticket was assigned and "someone" was supposed to call back. Nothing ever happened. Either they're too busy, understaffed, or don't care.

What I observed - under ~20% SOC, the 18K behaves differently than > 20%. By differently, I mean it completely ignores the threshold settings I depend on. (Side note: I had SOC fall from ~47% to 0% in a matter of minutes, once, see above - WTF? not sure still - that's about a 28.8 kWh drop of all the batts, on the BMS most likely) Unfortunately, I'm looking for more stable behavior. The 18K is now like a chick who promises to call you, but you never know if/when she will do so. Enphase have never given me such grief since Nov. 2021 turn-up.

What I wanted to do originally, was to have the 18k pull from GEN, SOC allowing of course, and I can control the physical GEN hot connection using the Enphase IQ Load Controller when Enphase SOC reaches a certain range (sunny day, generating power) to prevent Enphase batts from draining to 0%. I can spice up the situation by having the 18K request GEN start and couple that with the IQ Load Controller. That will work, provided the 18K GEN ports close, which they now fail to do. This is not very complicated. I have 15.36 kVA at 240v, (peak 23.04 kVA) + 12.54 kVA at 240v when sunny to work with, so basically a very quiet generator as far as the 18K is concerned. This does work, or I should say did work for several days (see early descr.) I'm simply not convinced the 18K behavior is stable enough to do this.

Where I am at now: SOC allowing, Enphase closes a relay (via IQ Load Controller) and "sheds" load when passing a certain SOC threshold (sunny day) via a 240v AC to 48v DC 35A charger. I know, I know, Panel DC -> AC -> DC -> AC -> house, but it works, predictably, each sunny day (I have plenty more panels in storage and a shit ton of roof space remaining to install them). A minor nuisance is that the AC to DC charger goes quiet (0A) at random. That's a totally different, non-related behavior - yet another issue to deal with - easy to solve though, as it resets next day.

I'm experimenting with Telco power equipment at the moment (the Chargeverter runs on two such packs, in parallel) and if successful, I will simply use the existing charger as a "48v float" but rely solely on telco power packs, in 25A step increments (they are stupidly stable), as many as needed to potentially charge 120 kWh within a single day, similar to
.

In the future, I will purchase another 18k EG4 (or possibly a 18k LuxPower) + a batch of 60 kWh (and a few accessories while at it), but this time from current connected and work with them on the original issue as I feel they would be far more helpful/capable and interested in solving the unstable behavior. I don't particularly dislike the 18k, just wish it was more predictable in its behavior as presently I'm convinced that major bugs have yet to be worked out.
Hi! I’m so sorry you’ve had trouble with support! If you’d like to reach out to me with your name and email address, I’d like to get your case escalated and taken care of!
 
Just confirming:
Off-grid
Gen port: enphase
Grid port: generator
Correct?
off-grid - YES 100%
Enphase system controller (load side) - OUT
18K GEN port - IN (I have seen this put amperage out, opposite of what was expected. Blew me away, but no damage since the "generator" is a bank of 4x10Ts that deliver amps & take then all day long) Feq. synch is ok since the 18K GEN port is supposed to do that anyways before closing contacts. Last tests it has never closed contacts.
Ps see diagram for all details (3MASTER with LOAD)
 
Just curious: what is controlling the enphase?

Being on the Load side, the 18k pv can't turn the enphase off when the generator is running. The generator prevents the 18k pv from frequency shifting to throttle enphase production. In that configuration, unless something else is controlling the enphase, you risk backfeeding the generator. AC pv on the load side is not recommended because thev18k pv cannot disconnect the pv to prevent over production.

I suggest putting the generator on the grid port, and the enphase on the gen port.

Note: Page 43. Diagram 4.9 has the AC PV into the gen port, not the panel on the load output. Page 25, section 4.7 discusses allowing ac pv on gen port, and generator on grid port when off grid.
 
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No progress after a month ?
I'm considering an 18kpv but am now concerned about the GEN port.
What's your concern? Are you planning to put a load on the gen port while it's tied to the grid port?
 

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