diy solar

diy solar

Why do Energy companies make Grid tie next to impossible for DIY

DavidAmon

New Member
Joined
May 30, 2024
Messages
16
Location
Arkansas
Sorry about the rant, but it is just ridiculous.

Right now trying to deal with Entergy Arkansas for approval to install a grid tied system. Small in the big scheme of things at 5.3 kW. The problem is the paperwork wants a drawing that is not a problem on the face of it, but the guy I talked to on the phone said it has to be in CAD. Buying a Cad program is expensive. Right now if I have to buy a Cad program, even a cheap one is going to add almost 10% to the total cost of my system. Then you go further down into the paperwork and they ask for the installers qualifications/certifications. I have worked in the power industry as an electrical engineer for almost 30 years, prior to that I was an electrician in the military. I never got to be a journeyman and well I never went and tested for my PE either. You would think project oversite of construction of a 180 MW solar farm would be better qualifications than an electrician that may have never worked on a solar system. I thought home owners were allowed to do work on their own home. The last thing is they want a county or city inspector to sign off on it, well considering I live in unincorporated land the city has told me they won't do it and the county doesn't have inspectors. The city actually told me it is up to the energy company to inspect.

Well I have sent an E-mail to their section that deals with this stuff and am hoping some hand drafted drawings and such will be adequate. It isn't complicated, 2 wires from each panel goes to a micro inverter. Each micro inverter takes 2 panels. The output of the micro inverters go to a trunk line with a max of 6 micro inverters per trunk. The trunk line runs down conduit on the side of the building to a cut off switch/breaker. The switch/breaker gets ran to the breaker box and put in on a double pole breaker through the interior wall of the building. The switch/breaker requires an 8' ground rod and if your going to be extra safe you can add a second ground rod 6' away from the first. Yes I calculated all wire sizes and plan on using SOOW for exposed wiring. All PV wire will be well over sized at 10AWG for 50V panels. The power companies like to pretend you have to be someone special to find all the info needed to install these systems, when the reality is you just need to have a couple brain cells that haven't been pickled from years of over indulgence in spirits.
 
Moons ago I was on the board of a Not-for-profit pre-school. Kids brought their lunches put them in a standard refrigerator. Health inspector came in and said that we were grandfathered but if the refrigerator ever needed to be replaced it would have to be with a "Commercial" refrigerator. I left the board before I got a straight answer on what made a refrigerator "commercial", and where exactly that was in the health department regulations.

Hold hands to fires, ask for specific verse.
 
Most likely non conspiracy reason is liability. If they sign off on DIY install without those requirements and homeowner gets hurt they could be held liable in court. But at the same time making it difficult to interconnect helps reduce revenue loss from customer solar by making it more expensive.
 
...the guy I talked to on the phone said it has to be in CAD. Buying a Cad program is expensive.
There are free or nearly free CAD programs out there.

Example:




and more... I have not used any of them, but you might be able to get this done at or near zero cost.

Did they specify the file format? Or even CAD document standards?

Mike C.
 
Electric companies in AR are extremely reluctant to approve grid tie setups now. This is due to the 1-1 net meter State mandate for non commercial customers. So they throw up all kinds of roadblocks. So yes they will find fault with anything they can to delay or avoid granting approval. Especially now that that old law is being revised.

Act 278 passed by the 94th General Assembly in 2023 has overhauled the net metering policy in Arkansas. To take advantage of the current net metering with the “grandfathering” term, Arkansans have until Sept. 30, 2024 to install solar panels to take advantage of net metering at the current 1:1 rate structure.

You may have better luck after Sept 30th.
 
Industry protectionism. Layers of rules that aren't about practicality, just convenience and sorting out the in group from the out group. "Sorry that drawing doesn't look like the exact kind of CAD file that we rubber stamp every day, if I had to review that I'd actually have to use my brain."

Same in all kinds of trades. Mutually beneficial relationship between the regulators and the operators.
 
Risk aversion. They can't trust that the general public won't, accidentally or deliberately, mess up their system.
You might know what you're doing but not everyone does.
 
Not that it helps with the install, but aren't there online CAD/drawing/paperwork firms that'll do all that for you? GoGreenSolar charged me under 5% of my order for a full set of plans (that I didn't need, but were helpful, so I don't feel ripped off..)
 
Yep, have an Entergy pole with transformer in my front yard. Not hooking up to it. Their net metering is only an expiring credit anyway, not a payout. The only thing I would need permission to do on my land is a perc test for the septic system if you own less than 10 acres. I have more than 10 acres. I do whatever I want, how I want.
 
I agree with safety and money. How do they know if someone that is unlicensed and installs a system, isn't going to kill a lineman when the power goes out?
 
I agree with safety and money. How do they know if someone that is unlicensed and installs a system, isn't going to kill a lineman when the power goes out?
You would think a simple automatic transfer switch between your system and the meter would be enough to take care of that. They do that for back up generators.
 
You would think a simple automatic transfer switch between your system and the meter would be enough to take care of that. They do that for back up generators.
The OP wants grid tie. A transfer switch is the opposite idea, it isolates the house from the grid when on generator.
 
The OP wants grid tie. A transfer switch is the opposite idea, it isolates the house from the grid when on generator.
The system would still be grid tied. It only cuts out the grid if it doesn’t sense power from the grid. Automatically. Sol-Ark and I believe the EG4 handle this internally.
 
Last edited:
Not easy for the pros either. I am seven months in with Tesla/SCE. Just this week got Edison approval to submit county permit.

Separate property is getting a new feeder for EV charging. Four months in and still no movement. Simple single phase 200 amp connection.
 
I agree with safety and money. How do they know if someone that is unlicensed and installs a system, isn't going to kill a lineman when the power goes out?
For lineman safety, they should never assume something is without power. That's on them. Tons of things could go wrong and cause a line to be energized besides an improperly installed system by a homeowner.
 
@DavidAmon youre overcomplicating this.

Get a free cad program(I use nanocad) put something together, and submit it. If they don't like it they'll tell you why and you can fix that and keep resubmitting till it's approved.

Get that net metering !
 
The system would still be grid tied. It only cuts out the grid if it doesn’t sense power from the grid. Automatically. Sol-Ark and I believe the EG4 handle this internally.
Ahh I see, yes that could work in theory for the power outage shut down.
 
Most likely non conspiracy reason is liability. If they sign off on DIY install without those requirements and homeowner gets hurt they could be held liable in court. But at the same time making it difficult to interconnect helps reduce revenue loss from customer solar by making it more expensive.
Yea and with all these DIY battery fires lately.
 
When I need a cad drawing done, I just go on craigslist and there are people who actually enjoy that type of work. They have already spent the money and time getting there and some work from home. I send them paper drawings and photos of what I want and they are pretty fast and not that expensive.

If it is a mechanical part, they can even turn it into code to run the cnc
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top