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Shinzul

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 6, 2022
Messages
176
Hey everyone,

Two years ago, I had a vision to build a cabin in West Virginia. I bought 20 acres of land and started planning and designing the cabin. I told my wife at the time that we had an amazing opportunity that we've never had before where we can actually stop coal from needing to be burned in the state most known for mining and burning coal. My wife and I decided to power the cabin purely on solar, and then I found this forum and was able to learn sooooo much throughout that year. I went from knowing nothing about solar to being able to build a fully-functioning solar installation which powers the whole cabin where everything inside is electric. I decided to use the grid as a backup, and so got a utility connection input. Originally I was planning for the cabin to be fully off-grid, but I didn't realize at the time how a fully electric cabin plus winter is a recipe for omg so much expensive. I would probably need 50% more panels, along with at least 2-3x more battery storage (120+kWh rather than the 63kWh I have now) in order to fully get through the winters. Electric heating is pretty terrible when it's 0deg outside. I initially got a quote from a solar installer to do the work for the same size and battery capacity that I ended up building myself, and their quote was $120,000 😲😲😲. For comparison's sake, the total cost for all my solar components after the tax credit was $27,470.

The cabin is a second home to visit on weekends or holidays, or where I can work from for a week or two at a time where I need to focus and want the peace of nature as a backdrop. While we're not there, the cabin uses very little power, and I wanted to be able to sell the excess back to the utility. After months of navigating the bureaucracy and paperwork, I just today got my ATO and I'm officially able to export power to the grid (just in time for all the summer sunny days!) and bank credits for the winter time. Because this forum helped me understand how to do everything properly, to code, I didn't have to make any changes to my setup at all; it passed engineering review and inspection on the first try. I anticipate that I'll be able to produce way more power than the cabin could ever realistically consume, and I wanted to thank this forum and all of the DIY contributors who have helped make my journey a resounding success. You've all made a massively positive impact in my life in helping me realize my vision of an all-electric cabin in the mountains of West Virginia.

THANK YOU!
 

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I initially got a quote from a solar installer to do the work for the same size and battery capacity that I ended up building myself, and their quote was $120,000 😲😲😲. For comparison's sake, the total cost for all my solar components after the tax credit was $27,470.
Ratios of 3 or 4 to 1 for pro versus DIY installs are relatively common, it seems to me. That is about where my system is.

I anticipate that I'll be able to produce way more power than the cabin could ever realistically consume
Do you get paid for the excess or is it zeroed out after some time? This varies with the rules you operate under.

Could you detail your equipment? Panels, inverter, battery, setup? That might help the next guy do what you did.

Mike C.
 
My opinion of what’s a “Cabin” in West Virginia has been dramatically altered.

That’s a full on resort.
Oh yeah 100%. My wife always jokes that it's our "little shack in the woods" because we originally envisioned it to be a small cabin for just our little family, but then as we were designing, we kept expanding for all the reasons. "Well we might want extended family and then our kids are going to have friends who will want to come along, and oh there's all the cousins who can spend weekends and hang out, and and and and..."

It ballooned pretty fast... oops. 😬
 
Do you get paid for the excess or is it zeroed out after some time? This varies with the rules you operate under.
The net metering interconnect agreement I'm under says that they pay out any excess credits at the full retail rate every fiscal year.

Could you detail your equipment? Panels, inverter, battery, setup? That might help the next guy do what you did.
Sure!

48x 455w Solarever panels
2x EG4 18kpv Inverters in parallel
12x EG4 Lifepower4 batteries in parallel connected to a single bus bar pair (one per +/-)

I have a manual transfer switch inside so that I can completely isolate the main panel from the solar connections so I can work on the solar components and still have grid power connected if I need to. So it's:
Grid -> Transfer switch -> Main panel
Solar -> Transfer switch -> Main panel
- The inverters also have grid connections from the meter for input and output

The transfer switch was expensive, but it was so so nice to be able to troubleshoot and size up my system along the way as I was learning.
 
21.8 KW of panels, 24 KW of AC generation, 60 KWH of batteries is an enormous system. What are you doing with all that energy?

Mike C.
 
The net metering interconnect agreement I'm under says that they pay out any excess credits at the full retail rate every fiscal year.
Seriously? Full retail rate for any excess?

Wow.

It looks like the system will produce about 26.5 MWH per year, and at, say, $0.12 per KWH, that's $3180 of power.

I'm still skeptical your deal is this good.

Mike C.
 
I wonder if full retail net metering is easier for folks to swallow when solar adoption is low and the rates are also low. So it’s not that much money in aggregate

It got very spicy in Hawaii and California where adoption got high and rates were high (and these are correlated of course since high rates make the fixed LCOE of your own system, which is similar across the country though probably higher in Hawaii because of shipping and captive market, work out better WRT ROI)
 
21.8 KW of panels, 24 KW of AC generation, 60 KWH of batteries is an enormous system. What are you doing with all that energy?

Mike C.
From the outside pictures, I’m guessing there’s a heated indoor pool in the basement 😂
 
It ballooned pretty fast... oops

Your place looks great. I went through the same process 20 years ago. I originally thought of a smaller cabin, but then I thought: why not go bigger and make it as comfortable as possible. Several years of planning and waiting for technology to catch up, five years of building (did most of it myself), and presto - my 'cabin'.

1717608786450.png
 
It looks like the system will produce about 26.5 MWH per year, and at, say, $0.12 per KWH, that's $3180 of power.
Yep! I'm hoping for this :)

I suspect there are so few surplus net metering customers in WV right now, the utility is happy to bring in more power generation from solar. Just a guess though...
 
21.8 KW of panels, 24 KW of AC generation, 60 KWH of batteries is an enormous system. What are you doing with all that energy?
The heat pump has two 10kw heat packs that kick in when it's really cold out in the winters. I anticipate that in particularly cold winters, nov-jan the cabin could consume 2-3mWh of power per month just from heating.

I sized the system to be capable of operating off-grid in the winter-time. After I ordered the components and started building it, I realized that the journey of fully off-grid was a dumb/expensive idea, and pivoted to an interconnect agreement to sell power back using the grid as the rest of my battery storage needs rather than buying more batteries.
 
Any reason why you didn’t opt for cold weather rated heat pumps?

Not to hard to find a unit that can provide heat down to -10f .
 
Hey everyone,

Two years ago, I had a vision to build a cabin in West Virginia. I bought 20 acres of land and started planning and designing the cabin. I told my wife at the time that we had an amazing opportunity that we've never had before where we can actually stop coal from needing to be burned in the state most known for mining and burning coal. My wife and I decided to power the cabin purely on solar, and then I found this forum and was able to learn sooooo much throughout that year. I went from knowing nothing about solar to being able to build a fully-functioning solar installation which powers the whole cabin where everything inside is electric. I decided to use the grid as a backup, and so got a utility connection input. Originally I was planning for the cabin to be fully off-grid, but I didn't realize at the time how a fully electric cabin plus winter is a recipe for omg so much expensive. I would probably need 50% more panels, along with at least 2-3x more battery storage (120+kWh rather than the 63kWh I have now) in order to fully get through the winters. Electric heating is pretty terrible when it's 0deg outside. I initially got a quote from a solar installer to do the work for the same size and battery capacity that I ended up building myself, and their quote was $120,000 😲😲😲. For comparison's sake, the total cost for all my solar components after the tax credit was $27,470.

The cabin is a second home to visit on weekends or holidays, or where I can work from for a week or two at a time where I need to focus and want the peace of nature as a backdrop. While we're not there, the cabin uses very little power, and I wanted to be able to sell the excess back to the utility. After months of navigating the bureaucracy and paperwork, I just today got my ATO and I'm officially able to export power to the grid (just in time for all the summer sunny days!) and bank credits for the winter time. Because this forum helped me understand how to do everything properly, to code, I didn't have to make any changes to my setup at all; it passed engineering review and inspection on the first try. I anticipate that I'll be able to produce way more power than the cabin could ever realistically consume, and I wanted to thank this forum and all of the DIY contributors who have helped make my journey a resounding success. You've all made a massively positive impact in my life in helping me realize my vision of an all-electric cabin in the mountains of West Virginia.

THANK YOU!

wow - if that is a cabin, what does your house look like? LOL

bottom line, great work. I have done DIY as well, but has taken 24 years and several equipment generational replacements as technology has improved
 
Any reason why you didn’t opt for cold weather rated heat pumps?
Or geothermal heat pumps? They don't fall down on cold days and are vastly more efficient than air to air.

My GSHP in the house have only rarely hit the strips, and it was like -10 F that day. My GSHP in my office building don't even have strips and never have any problems on any cold day.

BTW, I looked up WV net metering rules. You aren't going to get paid for the excess, it will be a credit on your bill that rolls over to cover future grid usage.

"Utility customers with net metered systems will be credited for each kilowatt produced by their system and each month will be billed for the number of kilowatt hours they used, minus the number of kilowatt hours generated. If your generation exceeds your usage for a given month, you will receive a credit for each excess kilowatt hour, to be applied in later months when you generate less electricity than you consume. Credit for excess generation will rollover from month to month indefinitely."


Your system is so large that you are going to build a huge credit, but I didn't see a way that credit gets paid to you in cash.

Also note that there is a 3% net metering cap. When net metered solar installs reach 3% of the peak usage, then the rules change, so early adopters win and later adopters don't.

Mike C.
 
The transfer switch was expensive, but it was so so nice to be able to troubleshoot and size up my system along the way as I was learning.
I suggest you build a Show and Tell thread on your system

I assume a 200 amp transfer switch - they can be, though I have found $500 units on ebay
 
Or geothermal heat pumps? They don't fall down on cold days and are vastly more efficient than air to air.

My GSHP in the house have only rarely hit the strips, and it was like -10 F that day. My GSHP in my office building don't even have strips and never have any problems on any cold day.

BTW, I looked up WV net metering rules. You aren't going to get paid for the excess, it will be a credit on your bill that rolls over to cover future grid usage.

"Utility customers with net metered systems will be credited for each kilowatt produced by their system and each month will be billed for the number of kilowatt hours they used, minus the number of kilowatt hours generated. If your generation exceeds your usage for a given month, you will receive a credit for each excess kilowatt hour, to be applied in later months when you generate less electricity than you consume. Credit for excess generation will rollover from month to month indefinitely."


Your system is so large that you are going to build a huge credit, but I didn't see a way that credit gets paid to you in cash.

Also note that there is a 3% net metering cap. When net metered solar installs reach 3% of the peak usage, then the rules change, so early adopters win and later adopters don't.

Mike C.
What’s another 10/30k for drilling a few holes?

I’m guessing their terrain is nice and ganitey of the Appalacians,
 
What’s another 10/30k for drilling a few holes?

I’m guessing their terrain is nice and ganitey of the Appalacians,
Right, drilling geothermal in this area is awful. It's all shale. On my property there's a shale plate about 6 feet down running all the way across.
 
Hey everyone,

Two years ago, I had a vision to build a cabin in West Virginia. I bought 20 acres of land and started planning and designing the cabin. I told my wife at the time that we had an amazing opportunity that we've never had before where we can actually stop coal from needing to be burned in the state most known for mining and burning coal. My wife and I decided to power the cabin purely on solar, and then I found this forum and was able to learn sooooo much throughout that year. I went from knowing nothing about solar to being able to build a fully-functioning solar installation which powers the whole cabin where everything inside is electric. I decided to use the grid as a backup, and so got a utility connection input. Originally I was planning for the cabin to be fully off-grid, but I didn't realize at the time how a fully electric cabin plus winter is a recipe for omg so much expensive. I would probably need 50% more panels, along with at least 2-3x more battery storage (120+kWh rather than the 63kWh I have now) in order to fully get through the winters. Electric heating is pretty terrible when it's 0deg outside. I initially got a quote from a solar installer to do the work for the same size and battery capacity that I ended up building myself, and their quote was $120,000 😲😲😲. For comparison's sake, the total cost for all my solar components after the tax credit was $27,470.

The cabin is a second home to visit on weekends or holidays, or where I can work from for a week or two at a time where I need to focus and want the peace of nature as a backdrop. While we're not there, the cabin uses very little power, and I wanted to be able to sell the excess back to the utility. After months of navigating the bureaucracy and paperwork, I just today got my ATO and I'm officially able to export power to the grid (just in time for all the summer sunny days!) and bank credits for the winter time. Because this forum helped me understand how to do everything properly, to code, I didn't have to make any changes to my setup at all; it passed engineering review and inspection on the first try. I anticipate that I'll be able to produce way more power than the cabin could ever realistically consume, and I wanted to thank this forum and all of the DIY contributors who have helped make my journey a resounding success. You've all made a massively positive impact in my life in helping me realize my vision of an all-electric cabin in the mountains of West Virginia.

THANK YOU!
Wow that is NOT what I pictured in my mind for “ Cabin in WV”

Good job..
 
Right, drilling geothermal in this area is awful. It's all shale.
That's perfect, you want to drill in rock for the wells if you have a choice.

I have almost 2 miles of wells (32 wells drilled 300 ft deep each) drilled under my building and the major issue was the first 20 ft was NOT rock and had to be lined to keep it from collapsing. When we hit rock, the drilling sped up and we did an average of a foot every 10 seconds. It really does go pretty fast in rock.

On my property there's a shale plate about 6 feet down running all the way across.
That's good, the major issue will be if there are voids as you go further down.

My parent's former house in central KY had shale just 2 ft under the ground, drilling was no problem.

Mike C.
 
That's perfect, you want to drill in rock for the wells if you have a choice.

I have almost 2 miles of wells (32 wells drilled 300 ft deep each) drilled under my building and the major issue was the first 20 ft was NOT rock and had to be lined to keep it from collapsing. When we hit rock, the drilling sped up and we did an average of a foot every 10 seconds. It really does go pretty fast in rock.


That's good, the major issue will be if there are voids as you go further down.

My parent's former house in central KY had shale just 2 ft under the ground, drilling was no problem.

Mike C.
Local drillers charge around 20-30 a feet for drinking wells, depending on amount of liner needed.

Geothermal wells must be smaller diameter to sink 32 wells that deep and still be worth the jam.
 
Great job!

It's always nice when things come together and everything goes as planned. 👍
That's a hell of a deal too, your stuff will be paid for in a few years.

...
But both of those "cabins" are basically mansions compared to ours lol

And y'all built them as you wanted them the first time around too.
We just recently (after 25 years of dealing with the single room cabin) decided to add on an addition to our mountainside cabin.

Now we will actually be able to "comfortably" fit about 10 people up there
The next step is a rain water collection system and to finalize how we want the solar setup to be as we currently only have two of the 6 panels wired up.

1000009908.jpg1000009909.jpg


I am renaming my cabin as a shed.
Riiiiight? 🤣

I guess to be fair we've always called our cabin "the camp". And realistically it's taxed as a snowmobile shed as that was originally what it was going to be, a small place to be at while hunting that you can snowmobile up to in the winter.

Oops 💁‍♀️
 
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