6000XP Wiring and questions

Hi,

looking at the 6000XP, it seems like it may do what we need.
Ideally we want to avoid interconnection as the net metering benefits aren't an incentive, and avoiding all of their requirements/process will maker life simpler/cheaper, and give us more options in what we buy.

I got hold of 16 x REC 370W panels at a good price, our energy use is pretty low, about 16kW a day at the most, and plan on getting an EG4 48v battery to start with.

A few questions if any one can offer guidance.

- Can we run the grid through the inverter to our main panel so we can power the house circuits?

- Can the 6000XP use solar and battery when available, and when it's not, automatically switch to using the grid?

- Is there any possibility that the inverter could back feed the grid? I hope not, as we want to stay of the power companies radar.

- Am I on the right track with this wiring diagram? what's missing, needs changing?

thanks!

iampob said:

- Can we run the grid through the inverter to our main panel so we can power the house circuits?

- Can the 6000XP use solar and battery when available, and when it's not, automatically switch to using the grid?

- Is there any possibility that the inverter could back feed the grid? I hope not, as we want to stay of the power companies radar.

- Am I on the right track with this wiring diagram? what's missing, needs changing?

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1.) Yes! That is totally fine, and the inverter is capable of allowing for that.

2.) Yes! The inverter will naturally operate this way, but is capable of other configurations as well.

3.) No. The inverter will not send power back to the grid if configured correctly. It does not export power under normal circumstances, but if the inverter is not wired correctly, then there could be issues.

4.) Yes! The one thing that I would suggest is making sure you have your neutrals and grounds correct as well. I would consult with an electrician on the best way to wire the inverter into your current utility installation.

Great, thanks for the response, I almost feel confident enough to start drawing up the plans the county requires now,
just need to figure where the neutral and grounds all go, and conform with an electrician, or on here.

I think the neutral ground bond remains in the main panel, and I'd need to make sure it's disabled on the 6000XP,
according top a few posts and the manual it should be disabled by default, but worth double checking!

Do you have any more details regarding what configuration could cause the 6000XP top feed the grid?
to make sure I avoid it.

appreciate the help!

Word of caution, the 6000XP has a 50A transfer relay which means that a 200A main panel will be downgraded to 50A. If your house is all electric this would not be recommended. If you have Nat Gas for water heating, dryer, stove and space heating then you can most likely make that work.

We did a whole house back-up with a Schneider 6848 operating on a 60A breaker. Peak demand has never been higher than 6,000W so never a problem.

Highly recommended to perform an electrical demand audit before proceeding.

Thanks,

our water (inc underfloor heating) and and stove are gas,
the big items on electric, 240v = dryer, mini split pump and hot tub.

for an energy audit, do you think something like this would be a good way to do it?
Emporia Gen 3 Smart Home Energy Monitor with 16 50A Circuit Level Sensors

Yes, the Emporia Vue 3 is a good value. I'm using the gen 2 with 8 CT's.
Install the energy monitor and turn on everything you would expect to use at the same time and check out your peak demand. Then give it a couple of weeks to collect your daily usage. Compare the results to the system as sized to determine if it suits your needs.

Most likely that dryer will be close to 100% of the eg4s output on battery, 6000 watts. It may run it but nothing else at the same time on battery.
The pass thru rated at 50 amps with the dryer running would leave you 6000 watts if split evenly on L1 and L2 for other things.

BentleyJ said:

Yes, the Emporia Vue 3 is a good value. I'm using the gen 2 with 8 CT's.
Install the energy monitor and turn on everything you would expect to use at the same time and check out your peak demand. Then give it a couple of weeks to collect your daily usage. Compare the results to the system as sized to determine if it suits your needs.

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Cool, thanks,
think I'll give one a go

PotusGobbleBottom said:

Most likely that dryer will be close to 100% of the eg4s output on battery, 6000 watts. It may run it but nothing else at the same time on battery.
The pass thru rated at 50 amps with the dryer running would leave you 6000 watts if split evenly on L1 and L2 for other things.

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Thank you,

are there any similar inverters that would not back feed the grid, and can automatically switch to grid if solar and battery are low, but have a higher amp pass through?
not sure of exactly what to search for yet.

iampob said:

Thank you,

are there any similar inverters that would not back feed the grid, and can automatically switch to grid if solar and battery are low, but have a higher amp pass through?
not sure of exactly what to search for yet.

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I feel like you are in my shoes. I just ordered my second 6000xp to run in parallel so I can have 100 amp pass thru and 50 amps on battery.
I do not plan on running my clothes dryer but now I can run my water heater and central air with no worries about what else is running to a large extent on battery.

So the answer is 2 6000xps

2x 6000XP or an 18kpv.
It is more expensive but much easier to wire up between your meter and breaker panel, has a full 200A pass-through if it needs it.
It will switch to grid bypass if you overload it and also if the batteries get very low, but it can take a pretty serious overload for 5 mins.
You do have to know how to set it up as it can feed back to grid with the wrong settings. I have run mine for a year so far and it works fantastic. Solark 15K is an alternative that does pretty much the same thing.

Quattrohead said:

You do have to know how to set it up as it can feed back to grid with the wrong settings.

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THIS. I purposefully stayed away from the 18KPV because inspectors dont look at settings. They might not be kind to OP and make them do an interconnect agreement. I didnt want any chance of ever back feeding. I fuggin hate the power co. mafia.
Maybe Im wrong, and overreacting.... Perhaps not

cheers,
I think I'll get the Emporia Vue monitors to try and get a better idea of what the hungry appliances need,
the 18kpv is out of our $ range, plus as you say, I don't want to give the overseers of doom any excuses to add extra requirements,
especially interconnection, as PNM in NM have just added new requirements which would be very limiting.
"all applications for interconnection must specify advanced inverters compliant with IEEE 1547-2018 including proposed updates to existing systems." and the interconnection request ends to be done by a licensed contractor, nope!

maybe 2 x 6000XPs is do-able.
Would it be possible to set it up so the heavy loads were powered straight from the grid and everything else could run on battery/solar, and grid when not producing or battery low?

iampob said:

Would it be possible to set it up so the heavy loads were powered straight from the grid and everything else could run on battery/solar, and grid when not producing or battery low?

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Of course! You would just need to wire solar circuits where you need them or cannibalize your breaker box and remove all the non heavy loads that you wish to power and put them in a xp powered breaker box. Make damn sure you get a new breaker box that can use the same breakers!
I just wired 2 circuits to the kitchen, one in the dining room/living room and 2 each in 2 bedrooms upstairs.

Its a lot to do but I have choice of grid and solar in every room if for any reason passthru doesnt work or fails.

nice!

good to know there are options, lots to learn...
will be interesting to see how many amps the dryer, tub and mini splits use, maybe they're really efficient

iampob said:

nice!

good to know there are options, lots to learn...
will be interesting to see how many amps the dryer, tub and mini splits use, maybe they're really efficient

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Inverter based dryer? If not, some "low power" drying modes do use less amps. Mine is not like that....
Hut tub?? haha I wouldnt feel lucky if I were you. Heat is heat no matter how you slice it. What breaker is it on? That will be your best clue!
Put a smaller heater in there?
I just put 1500 watt heating elements in my 50 gallon water heater to play nicely with my loads along with the water heater.

Mini splits are usually inverter based, (i think) so you will be able to make it work.



There are so many things to think about and do. I find it very fun (and expensive!)

Your diagram pulls the grid from the main panel and wires it directly to the 6000XP. I would not do this.

As a minimum I would have the grid on a smaller panel, feeding the XP(s) with a 30-50A breaker (each). I would recommend a secondary/sub panel fed from the load lugs of the XP(s) as a minimum. Personally I would put in a separate ATS, feed it with a breaker from the grid tied panel and the inverters, rather than use the built-in ATS functionality. This makes is much easier to de-energize your inverters later, if you need to do firmware updates or reconfigure or have other problems! An ATS is relatively inexpensive. Other upsides: You can move loads from the secondary panel back to the grid/primary relatively easily. You can migrate loads from the primary to the sub-panel with less disruption. If you decide to scale it up with more inverters you simplify the wiring, Ditto if you decide to swap out.

Most stand-alone hot tubs have a relatively small heating unit, they keep the water hot with a circulation pump and have an insulated cover. It's the big jet pumps that are going to crush you. Your probably not going to want that on your XP if you only have 1, surge is gonna kill you. I put an ATS on my EV charging circuit, originally to divert it to the grid under overall high load conditions. I'd probably do something like this and use it as a manual switch for the Hot tub, or maybe activate it with a timer. At night on batteries kick it to the grid, if you want to run it in the middle of the day with the jets, manually flip it. One XP (25A) is not going to cover your demand peaks. Two might be a little cozy, Three would probably handle it without you having to baby it. (75A).

Thanks for the details,
I'll spend some time trying to get it all into a diagram, so I can understand what's going on (hopefully!)
will come back when it's done to see if it's correct or not,

appreciate the help!

Would it look something like this?
and if so, would it be worth adding an additional ATS so solar could feed panel 1, if I increased the amount of XPs and it was capable of handling the heavier loads?

Hi,

added the Emporia V3 monitoring, so far the max amps are 36 for the hot tub (18 on each leg),
just saw this video from Will, I'm wondering if the 12Kpv would be sufficient to run all loads.


in my head the extra cost of the 12Kpv vs 2 x 6000xps would be justifiable as I shouldn't need to split the heavy circuits onto a separate panel, and save on en electrician's fees, and keep it simpler, if it could work in the same way as the 6000xp and have no chance of back feeding the grid.

iampob said:

Hi,

added the Emporia V3 monitoring, so far the max amps are 36 for the hot tub (18 on each leg),
just saw this video from Will, I'm wondering if the 12Kpv would be sufficient to run all loads.

in my head the extra cost of the 12Kpv vs 2 x 6000xps would be justifiable as I shouldn't need to split the heavy circuits onto a separate panel, and save on en electrician's fees, and keep it simpler, if it could work in the same way as the 6000xp and have no chance of back feeding the grid.

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You do realize you are saying the 12kpv at 8000 watts is justified in its price compared to 2) 6kXPs? that are good for 12000 watts? Thats 50% more power for less money.

I'm slowly realizing that

based on Will's 12Kpv video (not the specs) I was thinking the 12Kpv could handle more max current output than 2 x 6000xps,
though looking at the specs for each, 2 x 6000s could handle more...

12Kpv - MAX. OUTPUT CURRENT 33.3A@240VAC | 38.5A @208VAC

6000xp - MAX. CONTINUOUS OUTPUT CURRENT @ 240V 25A (per line)

iampob said:

I'm slowly realizing that

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All good, Thought I could help.
im just trying to justify my recent and yet not arrived 2nd, 6000xp.

thanks, it's all about the justifying

how are you finding the one 6000xp?
have you tripped it over 25 amps?


I'd seen a few videos of people maxing out the 6000 around the 25 amp mark, I think that's why I got excited about the 12, as it looks like it can handle a lot, even though the specs tell another story, Will had it up to 76amps (I think) in that video

iampob said:

have you tripped it over 25 amps?

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I have not gone over 25 amps, tho it switches to bypass just the same when you go over 3000 watts on any single- line L1 or L2. That I have done.
I have been slowly getting as much as I can on solar by wiring new outlets in rooms and recently got my 50 gal water heater on the 6KXP by swapping the 4500 watt elements with 1500 watt elements. This made it work great with the XP but I found that 2 bedrooms and 2 window ac units and the random water heater turning on makes things unpredictable as far as line balancing. I have everything humming along now with some circuit movement but now I cant turn on anything in the kitchen without making sure the water heater is off...LOL Hence the second 6KXP.

I love the 6kXP. It is so simple to get what you need out of it.