EG4 18K resets on AC load

I just moved my 50A/240v A/C compressor circuit over to the critical loads panel, which is powered by the 18k. The 18k seems to "trip" or otherwise reset itself when A/C demand comes. The 'Normal' light goes off, the fans spin up for about 1 minute, then loads come back on and 'Normal' light comes back green too. The A/C then comes on. What gives? I thought this inverter could handle something like an A/C unit coming on. There's no faults, no warnings, no errors on the EG4.

You connected your air compressor to a mini split heat pump?

I have a regular 4 ton AC that does something similar on an Outback radian. Usually works, but occasionally the 109+ amp 240 volt surge causes the inverter to fault out. I think a 50 amp circuit means a 5 Ton AC. The Surge to break the LRA is around 26 kW at least on a normal comrpessor.

I plan on eventually replacing the old regular ac for an Inverter high seer ac, this way the start up load is nil, and will run off about 20% less power.

What is your firmware version?
I'm sure it has logged something.

Firmware first, batteries as well. Too many variables not enough info. Check the logs, Get a Micro Air anyway for the HVAC.

chrisski said:

I have a regular 4 ton AC that does something similar on an Outback radian. Usually works, but occasionally the 109+ amp 240 volt surge causes the inverter to fault out. I think a 50 amp circuit means a 5 Ton AC. The Surge to break the LRA is around 26 kW at least on a normal comrpessor.

I plan on eventually replacing the old regular ac for an Inverter high seer ac, this way the start up load is nil, and will run off about 20% less power.

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Get a Micro Air, when this solves the issue, is saving 1/5 of the power for this one device relevant to your situation? Is there an ROI on replacing a functional HVAC with a minisplit?

ksmithaz1 said:

Get a Micro Air, when this solves the issue, is saving 1/5 of the power for this one device relevant to your situation? Is there an ROI on replacing a functional HVAC with a minisplit?

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The air conditioner is 16 years old, its functioning, but kind of slowing down. There already is a Hard Start kit installed and even with this hard start kit, the air conditioner causes lights in the house to flicker when it comes on. The compressor seems to be taking too much power, and this may be the situation where installing an easy start would lead to heating of the compressor windings.

The easy start doesn't save a lot of power only the brief bit of time that the motor takes to spool up the amps are reduced. Running amps remain the same. Could be a second or two spooling up where the power is cut by 1/5th. The minutes it runs, power remains the same.

Not trying to do a mini-split; still need central air for the seven places this 4 ton goes to. Thats why I'm thinking of a drop in inverter AC.

Quattrohead said:

What is your firmware version?
I'm sure it has logged something.

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FAAB-1717
You would think it would log something, but both the EG4 portal and the inverter itself show nothing. No alarms. No faults. No issues.

ksmithaz1 said:

Firmware first, batteries as well. Too many variables not enough info. Check the logs, Get a Micro Air anyway for the HVAC.

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EG4 18k firmware FAAB-1717. I'll have to take the panels off the battery to get its firmware, so probably tomorrow on that.
As I said in my post, there are no log entries, no alarms/faults, no warnings. Looking at both the inverter display logs and the online EG4 monitor logs are empty.

chrisski said:

The air conditioner is 16 years old, its functioning, but kind of slowing down. There already is a Hard Start kit installed and even with this hard start kit, the air conditioner causes lights in the house to flicker when it comes on. The compressor seems to be taking too much power, and this may be the situation where installing an easy start would lead to heating of the compressor windings.

The easy start doesn't save a lot of power only the brief bit of time that the motor takes to spool up the amps are reduced. Running amps remain the same. Could be a second or two spooling up where the power is cut by 1/5th. The minutes it runs, power remains the same.

Not trying to do a mini-split; still need central air for the seven places this 4 ton goes to. Thats why I'm thinking of a drop in inverter AC.

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If anything I would think the Micro Air will reduce the stress. It lowers start current across the board. Hard start kit is useless for inverter flicker.

Inverter AC would obviously solve the issue. If I ever get another . . .

inowhavesolar said:

EG4 18k firmware FAAB-1717. I'll have to take the panels off the battery to get its firmware, so probably tomorrow on that.
As I said in my post, there are no log entries, no alarms/faults, no warnings. Looking at both the inverter display logs and the online EG4 monitor logs are empty.

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What flavor batteries? 1717 should be decent.

ksmithaz1 said:

What flavor batteries? 1717 should be decent.

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This one, it came as a kit from signature solar. Only about 5K for PV input, though. Yes, very oversized but I wanted to make sure I had an inverter that can run the whole house. I've been running my subpanel through the inverter for the past 2 months. Just small stuff like kitchen appliances, fridge, deep freezer, microwave, bathroom gfci outlets, and ceiling fans. Only just today did I move the air conditioner compressor breaker from main panel to sub. The sticker on the side of the compressor says max amps 45, running amps 30.

Groovy. My 4T can hit a little over 22A in July when it's 114F+ ~ 5KW. 30A is a lot a lot. Pick up a cheap recording (to get your peak) amp clamp from amazon and throw it on there. We are not looking for precision, just scale. What is the RLA for the unit (Rotor Locked Amps). That would be the most it would draw. Seriously, just buy and install a Micro Air. $300 and be done with it.

I was seriously stunned by this thing. It lies a bit about the "live" current I'm currently pulling around 16.5A, so probably lying about start current, but the difference is night and day. You really need to get a handle on your actual on your HVAC.

ksmithaz1 said:

If anything I would think the Micro Air will reduce the stress. It lowers start current across the board. Hard start kit is useless for inverter flicker.

Inverter AC would obviously solve the issue. If I ever get another . . .

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Exact opposite what the AC tech said about hard starts.

In addition to ACs struggling to start and to add some life to them, they put hard starts in when customer complains about the flicker. The capacitor stores the extra amperage to dump into the AC so the "grid" or "inverter" won't need to provide it all. I have some doubts about putting a soft start on my home air conditioner which I consider end of life hospice care.

I installed a micro air on my RV air conditioner and it worked how it was intended to let the AC spool up nice and slow with the reduced starting amperage.

Hard starts are very common in AC installs, but slow starts/easy starts are real rare. I had a micro-air easy start to install in my home AC, but when I pulled the cover, the hard start kit had four capacitors instead of just one and I did not know which caps to install. Learned later sometimes the kits come with a running cap and start cap, for the air conditioner, and also a running cap and starting cap for the fan.

chrisski said:

they put hard starts in when customer complains about the flicker. The capacitor stores the extra amperage to dump into the AC so the "grid" or "inverter" won't need to provide it all

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I do not think that means what they think it means.

inowhavesolar said:

I just moved my 50A/240v A/C compressor circuit over to the critical loads panel, which is powered by the 18k. The 18k seems to "trip" or otherwise reset itself when A/C demand comes. The 'Normal' light goes off, the fans spin up for about 1 minute, then loads come back on and 'Normal' light comes back green too. The A/C then comes on. What gives? I thought this inverter could handle something like an A/C unit coming on. There's no faults, no warnings, no errors on the EG4.

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More details please. You have one 18Kpv, one PowerPro battery, and one 50A circuit?

The 1A1A firmware is out, I’d check the battery firmware too, a single battery won’t give you the peak power (50A), but at the very least try a soft start on the AC unit.

chrisski said:

Exact opposite what the AC tech said about hard starts.

In addition to ACs struggling to start and to add some life to them, they put hard starts in when customer complains about the flicker. The capacitor stores the extra amperage to dump into the AC so the "grid" or "inverter" won't need to provide it all. I have some doubts about putting a soft start on my home air conditioner which I consider end of life hospice care.

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TLDR;
Whatever tech told you this was misinformed, or lacked understanding. We have periodic classes on this with Carrier engineers. I asked about this the last time our engineer was in town and confirmed. Plenty of you tube classes on it as well. On the electrical side only DC Capacitors actually store electricity. Capacitors in an AC circuit do not "boost" anything, they cause a phase shift in the AC that is sent to the start winding to help the rotor begin to rotate in the correct direction. The larger the capacitor the larger the phase shift, on the secondary winding which is fighting the primary winding attempting to tug the rotor into a spin. Too much shift will cause the start winding to heat over time as the reluctance will be lower, the motor winding is engineered for the current / reluctance produced by the cap that came with the system.

If you have a dual trace scope you can watch this. Or grab an old bell transformer, put a small ceramic cap in series with AC, put a meter on it it will just pass it thru. Unplug the transformer and the meter will drop to 0. No storage at all.

chrisski said:

I installed a micro air on my RV air conditioner and it worked how it was intended to let the AC spool up nice and slow with the reduced starting amperage.

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Indeed. Heat/Damage is created when amperage is high. Amperage is what makes wires hot. I'm not sure what all these guys do inside these boxes but they work magic. I was going to build something with a thermistor and a bypass relay, but it's not worth it when they have a proven product.

chrisski said:

Hard starts are very common in AC installs, but slow starts/easy starts are real rare. I had a micro-air easy start to install in my home AC, but when I pulled the cover, the hard start kit had four capacitors instead of just one and I did not know which caps to install. Learned later sometimes the kits come with a running cap and start cap, for the air conditioner, and also a running cap and starting cap for the fan.

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Send the wiring diagram on the panel to Micro-Air support, ( or look up and find the wiring diagram online for your unit to send ). They will be glad to help you. They verified my connections were correct on my Goodman, marked up the diagram and everything. I'm not sure why you would have 4 caps. In any case you would need to remove all the hard-start kits before installing the M/A. They/It should be trivial to locate. It will be in parallel with the existing cap, with a small isolated board timer/control/relay to kick out the extra cap, once the unit is running. Once you break it down an HVAC is not that complex. I bet you could get an HVAC guy to install it for <$200 if you already own it.

Unless you have a refrigerant leak no reason to swap anything out. Jeeze man if you own it get it on there.

wpns said:

More details please. You have one 18Kpv, one PowerPro battery, and one 50A circuit?

The 1A1A firmware is out, I’d check the battery firmware too, a single battery won’t give you the peak power (50A), but at the very least try a soft start on the AC unit.

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Hmm. The documentation on EG4's website says my 1717 is the latest.
Is there some special place for latest firmware? Where are the release notes?

For a 4-5ton AC unit, it is advisable to update to the latest firmware and consider installing a soft start. Additionally, based on the overall load, it may be beneficial to add a second inverter and battery.

The latest firmware changelog can be found on the remote update portion of the monitoring site or through the app.

EG4_Jared said:

For a 4-5ton AC unit, it is advisable to update to the latest firmware and consider installing a soft start. Additionally, based on the overall load, it may be beneficial to add a second inverter and battery.

The latest firmware changelog can be found on the remote update portion of the monitoring site or through the app.

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Oh, you have to log out to see that, of course!

EG4_Jared said:

For a 4-5ton AC unit, it is advisable to update to the latest firmware and consider installing a soft start. Additionally, based on the overall load, it may be beneficial to add a second inverter and battery.

The latest firmware changelog can be found on the remote update portion of the monitoring site or through the app.

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What are the other two with Para in the name?

wpns said:

What are the other two with Para in the name?

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BAD

ScropusGobbleBottom said:

BAD

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IN WHAT WAY?

wpns said:

IN WHAT WAY?

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Untested, incomplete, placeholder, ect