Are there any early solar adopters who had NEM1 who have now been transitioned to NEM3/Solar Billing? What are your new strategies? How is it working?
We have NEM1 and at some point we will probably be transitioned to NEM3 or the new Solar Billing here in California. The strategies for the two are completely different. For NEM1, the peak rates were noon to 6 PM Monday through Friday. Peak rates were about $.31 per kilowatt hour Monday through Friday and off peak rates were about 8 1/2 cents kilowatt hour. And the billing was done over a period of one year. So in the winter time you could use more power than you generated and in the summer, you could generate more and maybe be even. Our strategy at the time was to minimize loads during the peak hours i.e. noon to 6 PM weekdays and generate as much PV as possible during those hours .Then, for every kilowatt we put in at peak rates we got $0.31 credit. Then we started using the loads after 6 PM and we were able to use about 3.5kW of power for every kilowatt hr put in earlier and still be even. That strategy meant that we tried to use as much power in the evenings and nights and weekends.
Later on the rates were changed so that the peak and the off-peak were almost similar. They only differed by a few cents. Then the whole strategy of minimizing peak consumption and maximizing peak production kind of went out the window. It didn’t really matter when you used or when you generated power. With the new solar billing program, anything we feed into the grid we get a few cents per kilowatt hour credit and anything we take out of the grid we have to pay full retail i.e. 50 to 60 or more cents per kilowatt hour. Those rules of course require a lot of self consumption and battery. Where the old strategy was that you could be net zero over the year the new strategy means that you have to be net zero every second. If you don’t do anything, you’re going to end up with a large power bill again. In the day you’ll be giving your PV away for free and at night you’ll be paying retail rates for power.
The new strategy would be to turn on all loads during sun hours and try to match consumption with production as much as possible. Instead of irrigating the lawns at night we would have to start irrigating during the day when the sun was up. The same with other loads.
Some things can be automated with timers. Irrigation can be certainly set to start at say 10 AM and end at 12 PM. Air conditioners could be used during the summer from say 11 AM till 5 PM in the evening. Basically the new strategy is “use it or lose it. “ For nighttime use will need to have enough battery storage so as to avoid importing from the grid and paying retail rates at night.
Some other strategies are running manual loads such as dishwashers, clothes, dryers, and washing machines also during sunlight hours. Avoid using those loads at night. That could just be a habit that you get into and you just press the button when the sun is up or that can also be automated. Amazon does have finger bot switches that can be put on old devices that need a push button to turn them on.
Amazon.com: MOES Fingerbot Plus Smart Button Pusher No Wiring Switch, Upgrade with Touch Control, Work with Smart Life App, Add MOES Tuya Bluetooth Hub Make it Compatible with Alexa,Google Home and Timer Control : Toys & Games
They are Wi-Fi enabled and compatible with Apple HomeKit, Home Assistant, etc. Or whatever ecosystem you happen to be in. You can use those to turn on devices when solar production is at its maximum and you are not home. Or stagger them at different times of the day. Newer devices might have automation already built in.
EV charging is another challenge. If you have a 9 to 5 job, how do you charge your car when your solar is producing at home and your car is sitting in a parking lot at work not charging? If you have the option, you might be able to get a charger that can charge from excess solar during sunlight hours when you happen to be home.
You could also have a strategy where you drive during the week and only charge on the weekend when you’re home. Of course that all depends on the length of your drive and a lot of other factors. Different people will have different solutions to that. All depending on their situations.
During the day, when there’s enough solar, a whole house air conditioner can certainly be running just from solar. At night that’s a different question. A 5 ton air conditioner, if it’s an older unit, can use 6000 W of power. On a hot summer day and night with temperatures over 100° would mean that the air conditioner could run from 7 PM to 7 AM and that would need 72 kWh of battery storage. Assuming if it was on continuously for those high temperature periods. One of our solutions to deal with that question was to use a mini split installed in the bedroom and only cool the bedroom at night. The mini split uses 1000 W at full speed and only about 400 W or less on low power. The temperature coming out of the mini split is significantly cooler than on a normal A/C. 41° versus 61°F. The rest of the house can be a bit warm in the morning, but that is something you can probably get used to and as soon as the sun is up, and you have enough solar, the whole house air conditioner could be turned on again. A mini split using 4 kWh of battery storage is certainly a whole lot better than a whole house air conditioner that needs 72 kWh of storage. That one strategy saves 68 kilowatt hours of battery storage.
We have an Emporia energy monitor and that really helps you to see where the production and consumption goes. That in turn can help you decide how much battery storage you need for night times and winter times. You can see when to turn loads on and went to turn them off and for how long, etc.
One member here, Hedges, noted that with the new PG&E rate plan published that he plans to push energy into the grid at those super high peak rates where are you can can get $3 to $4 dollars per kilowatt of energy put into the grid between certain hours such as 7p.m. to 9 p.m. on certain days. He noted that there are several days where the super high rates make it feasible to feed grid into the power grid. But they only apply to certain days and very specific times of day many of which are not during hours where the sun is actually above the horizon where you could generate it with PV production. He’s using a sunny boy storage and an LG high-voltage battery to try to accomplish that. Banking kilowatt hours at $3-$4 per kilowatt hour can help build credits to offset winter time use. This can also reduce the amount of battery storage needed. Another new strategy.
What strategies have you used that have helped you?
What strategies would be helpful under these conditions?
How did your bill change under the new system? Did it remain the same? Did it increase massively?
Did you get a new meter?
Did the utility let you know that they were changing the plan and how much notice did they give you?
It seems like everyone in the world is going to face these issue at some point in the future. Many are already dealing with it right now. At least things here in California are not as bad yet as they are in Australia (and probably other places) where you actually have to pay to put power into the grid. Here at least you get very little for what you put in. We don’t yet have to pay $.50 a kilowatt to put power into the grid, but of course that’s the next step.
Interested to hear how other people are planning for the transition or what they are doing right now.
I feels like having to start over at square one with off-grid pv and batteries. Net 0 over the year is now net 0 every second i.e. basically same as being off-grid.
We have NEM1 and at some point we will probably be transitioned to NEM3 or the new Solar Billing here in California. The strategies for the two are completely different. For NEM1, the peak rates were noon to 6 PM Monday through Friday. Peak rates were about $.31 per kilowatt hour Monday through Friday and off peak rates were about 8 1/2 cents kilowatt hour. And the billing was done over a period of one year. So in the winter time you could use more power than you generated and in the summer, you could generate more and maybe be even. Our strategy at the time was to minimize loads during the peak hours i.e. noon to 6 PM weekdays and generate as much PV as possible during those hours .Then, for every kilowatt we put in at peak rates we got $0.31 credit. Then we started using the loads after 6 PM and we were able to use about 3.5kW of power for every kilowatt hr put in earlier and still be even. That strategy meant that we tried to use as much power in the evenings and nights and weekends.
Later on the rates were changed so that the peak and the off-peak were almost similar. They only differed by a few cents. Then the whole strategy of minimizing peak consumption and maximizing peak production kind of went out the window. It didn’t really matter when you used or when you generated power. With the new solar billing program, anything we feed into the grid we get a few cents per kilowatt hour credit and anything we take out of the grid we have to pay full retail i.e. 50 to 60 or more cents per kilowatt hour. Those rules of course require a lot of self consumption and battery. Where the old strategy was that you could be net zero over the year the new strategy means that you have to be net zero every second. If you don’t do anything, you’re going to end up with a large power bill again. In the day you’ll be giving your PV away for free and at night you’ll be paying retail rates for power.
The new strategy would be to turn on all loads during sun hours and try to match consumption with production as much as possible. Instead of irrigating the lawns at night we would have to start irrigating during the day when the sun was up. The same with other loads.
Some things can be automated with timers. Irrigation can be certainly set to start at say 10 AM and end at 12 PM. Air conditioners could be used during the summer from say 11 AM till 5 PM in the evening. Basically the new strategy is “use it or lose it. “ For nighttime use will need to have enough battery storage so as to avoid importing from the grid and paying retail rates at night.
Some other strategies are running manual loads such as dishwashers, clothes, dryers, and washing machines also during sunlight hours. Avoid using those loads at night. That could just be a habit that you get into and you just press the button when the sun is up or that can also be automated. Amazon does have finger bot switches that can be put on old devices that need a push button to turn them on.
Amazon.com: MOES Fingerbot Plus Smart Button Pusher No Wiring Switch, Upgrade with Touch Control, Work with Smart Life App, Add MOES Tuya Bluetooth Hub Make it Compatible with Alexa,Google Home and Timer Control : Toys & Games
They are Wi-Fi enabled and compatible with Apple HomeKit, Home Assistant, etc. Or whatever ecosystem you happen to be in. You can use those to turn on devices when solar production is at its maximum and you are not home. Or stagger them at different times of the day. Newer devices might have automation already built in.
EV charging is another challenge. If you have a 9 to 5 job, how do you charge your car when your solar is producing at home and your car is sitting in a parking lot at work not charging? If you have the option, you might be able to get a charger that can charge from excess solar during sunlight hours when you happen to be home.
You could also have a strategy where you drive during the week and only charge on the weekend when you’re home. Of course that all depends on the length of your drive and a lot of other factors. Different people will have different solutions to that. All depending on their situations.
During the day, when there’s enough solar, a whole house air conditioner can certainly be running just from solar. At night that’s a different question. A 5 ton air conditioner, if it’s an older unit, can use 6000 W of power. On a hot summer day and night with temperatures over 100° would mean that the air conditioner could run from 7 PM to 7 AM and that would need 72 kWh of battery storage. Assuming if it was on continuously for those high temperature periods. One of our solutions to deal with that question was to use a mini split installed in the bedroom and only cool the bedroom at night. The mini split uses 1000 W at full speed and only about 400 W or less on low power. The temperature coming out of the mini split is significantly cooler than on a normal A/C. 41° versus 61°F. The rest of the house can be a bit warm in the morning, but that is something you can probably get used to and as soon as the sun is up, and you have enough solar, the whole house air conditioner could be turned on again. A mini split using 4 kWh of battery storage is certainly a whole lot better than a whole house air conditioner that needs 72 kWh of storage. That one strategy saves 68 kilowatt hours of battery storage.
We have an Emporia energy monitor and that really helps you to see where the production and consumption goes. That in turn can help you decide how much battery storage you need for night times and winter times. You can see when to turn loads on and went to turn them off and for how long, etc.
One member here, Hedges, noted that with the new PG&E rate plan published that he plans to push energy into the grid at those super high peak rates where are you can can get $3 to $4 dollars per kilowatt of energy put into the grid between certain hours such as 7p.m. to 9 p.m. on certain days. He noted that there are several days where the super high rates make it feasible to feed grid into the power grid. But they only apply to certain days and very specific times of day many of which are not during hours where the sun is actually above the horizon where you could generate it with PV production. He’s using a sunny boy storage and an LG high-voltage battery to try to accomplish that. Banking kilowatt hours at $3-$4 per kilowatt hour can help build credits to offset winter time use. This can also reduce the amount of battery storage needed. Another new strategy.
What strategies have you used that have helped you?
What strategies would be helpful under these conditions?
How did your bill change under the new system? Did it remain the same? Did it increase massively?
Did you get a new meter?
Did the utility let you know that they were changing the plan and how much notice did they give you?
It seems like everyone in the world is going to face these issue at some point in the future. Many are already dealing with it right now. At least things here in California are not as bad yet as they are in Australia (and probably other places) where you actually have to pay to put power into the grid. Here at least you get very little for what you put in. We don’t yet have to pay $.50 a kilowatt to put power into the grid, but of course that’s the next step.
Interested to hear how other people are planning for the transition or what they are doing right now.
I feels like having to start over at square one with off-grid pv and batteries. Net 0 over the year is now net 0 every second i.e. basically same as being off-grid.
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