Google earth the area, look for people with solar and pay them a visit as a new neighbour, if your lucky you might find an electrician you can employ for the whole project. Not necessarily the solar but having someone nearby who atleast understands the basics of your system who can nitpick and support you would be invaluable. The chances are slim but not 0 you might get lucky as long as it's not the part of merica that shoots first and asks questions later.
Your Ideal Offgrid New Construction Setup
- Thread starter mecdatlanta
- Start date
Spartan
New Member
My wife and I commissioned a 2,500 square foot, off-grid home build in 2017 in the Pacific Northwest. Building from the ground up allowed us to design the house and its systems in a way that would be optimized for living without a grid connection. We wanted our house to have the look and feel of a grid connected house as much as possible.
Following advice given to us, we spent a good deal of time analyzing what our daily power needs would be assuming installation of energy efficient appliances. This gave us a starting point for sizing the off-grid system. Next, we moved what we could, off of the electrical side of things. For example, instead of using electricity to heat water, heat the house and cook, we selected propane for these systems. The idea is that it is always more cost efficient to use less electricity than to buy more battery capacity, larger inverters and bigger backup generator capacity.
I will add here that our high efficiency propane furnace does use electricity but only 600 watts to run the whole-house circulation fan but that is far less electricity than if trying to run a heat pump. We mostly heat the house with our wood stove through the winter with wood we cut from our land so reliance on propane heat is further reduced. Our Kohler, 12RES backup generator is also propane powered and runs about 18-24 hours per year to charge the batteries in the winter months when rainy weather limits solar production. The generator comes on automatically if battery bank capacity reaches its set trigger point. We use about 300 gallons of propane per year.
On a side note, we got by on a Honda EU6500i portable generator for the first couple years since it was a generator we already owned. We put off installing the Kohler generator for a couple years as a means of spreading out construction project costs. The drawback to the Honda generator was that it had to be manually set up when needed to charge the batteries. It required close monitoring of the battery bank during winter so you'd know about when you needed to hook up the generator otherwise the power system would shut itself off when the battery reached its cutoff point. The Kohler is auto-start capable and we are much happier with the convenience of an auto-start generator hooked up to an entire years supply of propane. The generator never runs in the summer (except for its weekly exercise schedule), it only is needed in the winter.
Our 4,200 watt solar array is mounted on an adjustable, Montana Solar, single pole mount system. This method makes it easy to adjust to solar panels for proper alignment in the winter. Our solar array size is calculated to provide enough power to charge up our depleted battery bank during one day of sunlight on the shortest days of winter. We have about enough battery power to make through three days without solar production.
Our water system features a Grundfos AC/DC well pump that uses 500 watts to pump well-water up from 100' into two, 3,000 gallon storage tanks. One of the reasons we use storage tanks so that in the winter, when we want to conserve energy, we only top off the storage tanks on sunny days. Our water storage tanks are also our source of fire-fighting water due to our rural location. During periods of rain and thick cloud cover, we can get by for long periods on 6,000 gallons of water! For water pressure, we have a 90 gallon pressure tank that is boosted up by a high efficiency Dankoff booster pump.
On the electrical side, we have an Outback inverter, Morning Star charge controllers and a Solar-One HUP battery (lead-acid, 48 volt, 840 amp-hour). These components are mounted in the garage next to the house where it's never too hot or too cold for the battery. Note: in early 2017, when we were putting this entire project together, there was not a clear choice on which of the new battery technologies would pull ahead of lead-acid. Also, costs for these new chemistries were still up there and we had an entire home build to pay for so, we went with tried and true lead acid using a quality battery for longevity of service-life. Now, it has become more clear that Lithium-Iron-Phosphate has become the front runner in battery technology for off-grid systems so when it comes time to upgrade, we'll go with this type of battery but we are yet years off from a battery upgrade.
There are tons of alternatives and strategies for building out an alternative energy driven home. You're already read enough here to make your head spin. Leave the more radical alternatives to the Cool Kids and Wizards to fool around with. My advice; keep it simple. Use less electricity first, then calculate your needs and move forward with a system that will meet the calculated electricity demands. That's the path we followed and now live comfortably, in a house one might never know was off-grid using a power system that, after 25% tax credits, cost us $30,000. That was less than it would have cost to run power from a mile away...for sure!
Following advice given to us, we spent a good deal of time analyzing what our daily power needs would be assuming installation of energy efficient appliances. This gave us a starting point for sizing the off-grid system. Next, we moved what we could, off of the electrical side of things. For example, instead of using electricity to heat water, heat the house and cook, we selected propane for these systems. The idea is that it is always more cost efficient to use less electricity than to buy more battery capacity, larger inverters and bigger backup generator capacity.
I will add here that our high efficiency propane furnace does use electricity but only 600 watts to run the whole-house circulation fan but that is far less electricity than if trying to run a heat pump. We mostly heat the house with our wood stove through the winter with wood we cut from our land so reliance on propane heat is further reduced. Our Kohler, 12RES backup generator is also propane powered and runs about 18-24 hours per year to charge the batteries in the winter months when rainy weather limits solar production. The generator comes on automatically if battery bank capacity reaches its set trigger point. We use about 300 gallons of propane per year.
On a side note, we got by on a Honda EU6500i portable generator for the first couple years since it was a generator we already owned. We put off installing the Kohler generator for a couple years as a means of spreading out construction project costs. The drawback to the Honda generator was that it had to be manually set up when needed to charge the batteries. It required close monitoring of the battery bank during winter so you'd know about when you needed to hook up the generator otherwise the power system would shut itself off when the battery reached its cutoff point. The Kohler is auto-start capable and we are much happier with the convenience of an auto-start generator hooked up to an entire years supply of propane. The generator never runs in the summer (except for its weekly exercise schedule), it only is needed in the winter.
Our 4,200 watt solar array is mounted on an adjustable, Montana Solar, single pole mount system. This method makes it easy to adjust to solar panels for proper alignment in the winter. Our solar array size is calculated to provide enough power to charge up our depleted battery bank during one day of sunlight on the shortest days of winter. We have about enough battery power to make through three days without solar production.
Our water system features a Grundfos AC/DC well pump that uses 500 watts to pump well-water up from 100' into two, 3,000 gallon storage tanks. One of the reasons we use storage tanks so that in the winter, when we want to conserve energy, we only top off the storage tanks on sunny days. Our water storage tanks are also our source of fire-fighting water due to our rural location. During periods of rain and thick cloud cover, we can get by for long periods on 6,000 gallons of water! For water pressure, we have a 90 gallon pressure tank that is boosted up by a high efficiency Dankoff booster pump.
On the electrical side, we have an Outback inverter, Morning Star charge controllers and a Solar-One HUP battery (lead-acid, 48 volt, 840 amp-hour). These components are mounted in the garage next to the house where it's never too hot or too cold for the battery. Note: in early 2017, when we were putting this entire project together, there was not a clear choice on which of the new battery technologies would pull ahead of lead-acid. Also, costs for these new chemistries were still up there and we had an entire home build to pay for so, we went with tried and true lead acid using a quality battery for longevity of service-life. Now, it has become more clear that Lithium-Iron-Phosphate has become the front runner in battery technology for off-grid systems so when it comes time to upgrade, we'll go with this type of battery but we are yet years off from a battery upgrade.
There are tons of alternatives and strategies for building out an alternative energy driven home. You're already read enough here to make your head spin. Leave the more radical alternatives to the Cool Kids and Wizards to fool around with. My advice; keep it simple. Use less electricity first, then calculate your needs and move forward with a system that will meet the calculated electricity demands. That's the path we followed and now live comfortably, in a house one might never know was off-grid using a power system that, after 25% tax credits, cost us $30,000. That was less than it would have cost to run power from a mile away...for sure!
mecdatlanta
New Member
The cool kids are way cooler than me, that's for sure. My head is spinning right now, but when it stops I'll try to piece together something that works without building a bunker / command center next to our home that my wife might just turn into my 'dog house" if I get any of this wrong. lol
I keep coming back to the whole "burning propane ain't so bad" thing. If I have to burn propane in a dual fuel heat pump for one month out of the year, is that the end of the world? My neighbors burn it for at least 4 months out of the yr to heat their home and 12 months out of the yr to heat their water.
I wasn't going to go the fireplace route (b/c of dirt and air loss), but I think there are some good options out there like this Valcourt that can be tied into the house air handler and blow hot air throughout. I just need to heat the house for about a month out of the yr. We have so many hardwoods falling all the time that I could never use up all the fuel.
Your point about it being more cost effective to use less electricity makes a lot of sense. A fireplace and/or a dual-fuel heat pump would appear to help with that, especially during the low sun periods.
Going back to watching me head spin.
mecdatlanta
New Member
I've learned about dual fuel heat pumps, but what about dual fuel hot water tanks? It seems to me that having both the hp and hot water tank being able to run on electric or propane would make January a lot easier to get through.
What little experience I have would always suggest a coiled hot water tank system that way you can add any form of heating to it from multiple sources, IE burners be it propane or a back boiler on pellet stove during winter or solar thermal/ heat pump during summer.
50ShadesOfDirt
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2021
- Messages
- 501
I'd go completely off-grid, and build in the redundancy ... everything ties into every stage of construction (plus, you have $30k to burn through, along with possible tax credit amount):
0. finish site planning ... where everything goes (roads, house, solar utility shed, septic, other desired structures)
1. put in roads (roadbase for now), get clearing done (firewise protection, fire road around perimeter of 10 acres) ... one bulldozer effort, done
- fire departments exist, but won't get to you quickly, so plan on your own response to things, until they get there
2. put in site propane tank (1000gal), heavy-duty propane generator ... now you've got site power, and backup fuel (propane lasts forever) for construction & future heating, and backup power (part of your solar gear)
- don't know if you've a wooded lot, but plan on wood stove, pellet stove, etc. (redundant heat system)
3. put in quality utility shed (not a man-cave, shipping container, etc.), but something that matches your house design, so it fits in architecturally
- minimum 8 x 16, but as large as you can afford
- holds water storage tank (500 gal), as buffer to your plumbing; have someone truck water in and fill it for construction
- holds solar gear on one of the walls
- panels go on ground near to the solar gear wall (usually your south-facing area, and why site planning is important)
- just far enough from main house to have fire separation between structures
- plan for fire connection on outside of shed, near water tank (you are remote, so you are the fire department)
4. add 48v solar inverter(s) & battery-bank
- I suggest pre-wired magnum or similar, as these are just rock-solid, and last forever (mine's 5+ years now); you are the electric company, so it has to be both bullet-proof, and family (kids) can operate it, and folks at support answer when you call for help
- could also be 6000xp's, as other threads suggest these scale as needed to fit power requirements; support might be iffy'er, but somewhat simple to just replace one (of 3 or more in your design)
- shed is insulated, so no problems with your LFP battery-bank (or your water) in winter
- you've got more power for both construction, and are running the generator less, but gen is still there for backups
5. add solar panels, whenever
6. build the big house
- all utilities are in, everything's been tested and kinks worked out
- you are still running power-wise (and water, and septic), when everyone around you is down (grid is down)
- tax credit gives you back some money (just need 1 solar panel, and everything else qualifies ... equipment, electrician installation costs, etc.)
- most efficient power devices you can find (mini-splits instead of central hvac, etc.)
- super-insulate (benefit heating/cooling)
- passive solar (might help with heating/cooling)
Main thing is, you are off-grid, self-reliant, and everything still works when the rest of the world is grid-down and going crazy. It is totally possible to get there, and cut the grid-connection and all associated headaches.
Hope this helps ...
0. finish site planning ... where everything goes (roads, house, solar utility shed, septic, other desired structures)
1. put in roads (roadbase for now), get clearing done (firewise protection, fire road around perimeter of 10 acres) ... one bulldozer effort, done
- fire departments exist, but won't get to you quickly, so plan on your own response to things, until they get there
2. put in site propane tank (1000gal), heavy-duty propane generator ... now you've got site power, and backup fuel (propane lasts forever) for construction & future heating, and backup power (part of your solar gear)
- don't know if you've a wooded lot, but plan on wood stove, pellet stove, etc. (redundant heat system)
3. put in quality utility shed (not a man-cave, shipping container, etc.), but something that matches your house design, so it fits in architecturally
- minimum 8 x 16, but as large as you can afford
- holds water storage tank (500 gal), as buffer to your plumbing; have someone truck water in and fill it for construction
- holds solar gear on one of the walls
- panels go on ground near to the solar gear wall (usually your south-facing area, and why site planning is important)
- just far enough from main house to have fire separation between structures
- plan for fire connection on outside of shed, near water tank (you are remote, so you are the fire department)
4. add 48v solar inverter(s) & battery-bank
- I suggest pre-wired magnum or similar, as these are just rock-solid, and last forever (mine's 5+ years now); you are the electric company, so it has to be both bullet-proof, and family (kids) can operate it, and folks at support answer when you call for help
- could also be 6000xp's, as other threads suggest these scale as needed to fit power requirements; support might be iffy'er, but somewhat simple to just replace one (of 3 or more in your design)
- shed is insulated, so no problems with your LFP battery-bank (or your water) in winter
- you've got more power for both construction, and are running the generator less, but gen is still there for backups
5. add solar panels, whenever
6. build the big house
- all utilities are in, everything's been tested and kinks worked out
- you are still running power-wise (and water, and septic), when everyone around you is down (grid is down)
- tax credit gives you back some money (just need 1 solar panel, and everything else qualifies ... equipment, electrician installation costs, etc.)
- most efficient power devices you can find (mini-splits instead of central hvac, etc.)
- super-insulate (benefit heating/cooling)
- passive solar (might help with heating/cooling)
Main thing is, you are off-grid, self-reliant, and everything still works when the rest of the world is grid-down and going crazy. It is totally possible to get there, and cut the grid-connection and all associated headaches.
Hope this helps ...
mecdatlanta
New Member
Wow! That is quite a setup. I definitely see the vision. Thanks for breaking it down, step-by-step.
I am feeling more confident about piecing this all together, the more I learn. I still have plenty to learn, but with all the available resources, including this site and folks like you, it's not rocket science (or at least a lot of the rocket science has already been developed and, increasingly, left for guys like me to snap into place and hit the ground running).
What started out as my disdain for having to pay $35k+ for the privilege of buying energy at rates that, although (currently) are cheaper than the national avg (but higher than the rest of Georgia since we are in the mountains)... has slowly morphed into me now just wanting to take my family's energy needs into my own hands and not rely on our government and utility companies to call the shots. It's kind of scary (less and less, as I learn more), but also kind of empowering.
I'll keep everyone in the loop as things progress. Thanks again!
Spartan
New Member
There has never been a time like now, to live independent of others for your energy needs. In the old days, the equipment was not reliable, solar panels cost fortune and electricity consuming devices hogged power compared to their energy efficient progeny of today.
There is still a mindset that living off-grid means a tiny cabin with composting toilet, propane powered refrigeration and surrender of other modern conveniences. Fortunately, more and more people are coming to understand that you can build a totally normal, modern style house that is completely off the grid and not break the bank to do it. The equipment now is so much better and way more reliable and energy consuming devices from light bulbs to refrigerators consume way less electricity.
Now that I live off-grid, I don't think I could ever go back to paying the utility company for the privilege of rate hikes, taxes and blackouts.
Another note about my off-grid home build: We tried to have our energy system up and running first so it could be used for power during construction but couldn't sync the timing. No worries; the builder just dropped down a small, gas generator to power the table saw and charge the batteries of the cordless tools and the crew was of to the races building our house. Our power didn't come on line until about the end of the home build so don't feel like you need to get your power system in place in order to start construction.
Good luck with your project. If a knucklehead like me can do it, you can too!
This reply is more about space heating than domestic hot water (which I realized only after writing this long post below), but the principles aren't that different.
Hydronic heating and a buffer tank (critical component) makes this fairly simple. You just have to mentally decouple heating of the buffer tank from heating of each zone, which many HVAC "professionals" struggle to do. The HP is used as the heat source when there's plenty of sun and the power isn't needed for other purposes. Otherwise, a propane source of heat takes over. You can even switch between the two more than once in a single day, and automate the process.
Far too many hydronic heating systems don't make use of a buffer tank. There are many reasons for that but it's a bad design for most modern, energy-efficient systems. The buffer tank doesn't care how you heat its water - it just calls for heat when the water temp within it drops to a certain point. When the building (zoned down to the individual room if you wish) calls for heat, it's just activating a pump/valve that draws from the buffer tank and may not even cause the heat source to turn on for a smaller zone.
An added bonus with this design is that the propane water heating can in many cases be done by a much-less-expensive tankless hot water heater (normally used for domestic hot water only) rather than a boiler (which costs much more).You need to dedicate a tankless unit to this task (not use it for domestic hot water) UNLESS you make use of a heat exchanger, but if that's in play you can create a dual-fuel system with some decent redundancy built in.
This is exactly what we're installing in a few weeks, btw, so by spring I should be able to report back. And FWIW, most local HVAC folks wanted no part of this, NOT because they feared it wouldn't work, but just because it wasn't "slap it in and move on" easy. I found the right installer by speaking with a friend who wholesales HVAC equipment, who directed me to a guy with a great reputation and a desire to build energy-efficient systems. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it outside the open forum.
Sounds very similar to an unvented cylinder they work great and are super efficient but the downside being they need regular maintenance and checking by a very scrupulous engineer as they tend to explode taking whole houses with them if the install is bad or develop problems please be aware of this if it is indeed a unvented cylinder.
I should add hydronic or central heating is the primary source of heating for all UK homes we've been doing it this way for atleast 100years and some systems are still working after 100years but they were originally fitted with 2-3 cast iron pipes and large cast iron radiators diverter vales would switch between heating the house or a hot water cylinder as long as you add anti corrosion chemicals to the closed water loop they need very little servicing and when done modular can allow you to use pretty much any form of heating as I suggested in a earlier post on this thread but you need to be weary of the tankless water heater (unvented cylinder) there are essentially extremely efficient bombs that need to be treated as such with regular checkups to make sure the won't detonate within any 6-12 months period.
kid744
New Member
I live in the area you are building near. My recommendations:
1. Limit size of structure (Understandable comfort, but nothing excessive)
2. Insulate extremely well.
3. Heat pump water heater.
4. We can get 5 days of clouds in winter, plan accordingly.
5. Power is relatively cheap and reliable here, might not make sense not to hook to grid.
6. I use my solar/batteries to do several things. Primary is backup for outages, Other to limit electric bill and charge gold cart etc...
7. If you hook to grid, build with a critical loads panel supplied by your solar. (selectable between grid and solar) This is a separate box from your main.
8. Propane (central furnace) and heat pumps to augment are my winter heating sources. (blower for furnace draws less than half kilowatt an hour)
9. Possibly lower initial investment for grid connected system with room to expand system later. (less up front)
10. DIY batteries are the way to go if you have time and talent to build yourself. (18650 battery store is near Atlanta airport so no shipping cost.)
11. Critical loads panel and smaller system (5.9 kw solar with 30 kwH diy backup) replace need for expensive generator in my setup.
12. One regret is I wish I had done more panels, but what I have is adequate for our 2400 sq ft home.
Hope that helps.
Kid
1. Limit size of structure (Understandable comfort, but nothing excessive)
2. Insulate extremely well.
3. Heat pump water heater.
4. We can get 5 days of clouds in winter, plan accordingly.
5. Power is relatively cheap and reliable here, might not make sense not to hook to grid.
6. I use my solar/batteries to do several things. Primary is backup for outages, Other to limit electric bill and charge gold cart etc...
7. If you hook to grid, build with a critical loads panel supplied by your solar. (selectable between grid and solar) This is a separate box from your main.
8. Propane (central furnace) and heat pumps to augment are my winter heating sources. (blower for furnace draws less than half kilowatt an hour)
9. Possibly lower initial investment for grid connected system with room to expand system later. (less up front)
10. DIY batteries are the way to go if you have time and talent to build yourself. (18650 battery store is near Atlanta airport so no shipping cost.)
11. Critical loads panel and smaller system (5.9 kw solar with 30 kwH diy backup) replace need for expensive generator in my setup.
12. One regret is I wish I had done more panels, but what I have is adequate for our 2400 sq ft home.
Hope that helps.
Kid
Citlalatonac
New Member
I was just watching a couple videos from an electrician/installer from around there. Gainesville, GA.
Seems like he more or less knows what he's talking about and is willing to work with people wanting to do some DIY. I saw some offgrid, groundmount, and solark videos in the list, which ought to be near what you may need. Website says he's do solar design and consulting at an hourly rate.
gainsolarpower.com
Seems like he more or less knows what he's talking about and is willing to work with people wanting to do some DIY. I saw some offgrid, groundmount, and solark videos in the list, which ought to be near what you may need. Website says he's do solar design and consulting at an hourly rate.
Home - Gain Solar
Based in Gainesville, GA, we offer professional solar installations to residents of Northeast GA and parts of NC and SC. Our solar installations include a
gainsolarpower.com
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50ShadesOfDirt
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2021
- Messages
- 501
WRT "gain solar", it seems that this "installer" will actually support, after the fact, what he sold or installed, and more importantly, what others have sold/installed ... for the benefit of the industry, I hope more "contractors" or consultants, will do this ... it is needed by many!
gainsolarpower.com/system-repair/
One of the potential hold-ups for folks, that perhaps aren't so DIY *and* self-supporting, is the potential need for someone else to support it to make the project fly.
I've seen threads where it's kind of obvious that support is needed (or desired), even if we never hear back on the thread that the project got off the ground, or support wasn't needed after all, or whatever ...
What are we going to call these trades folk (that will come out and repair something they didn't install)? There's electrician (licensed or not), HVAC, plumber (licensed or not), etc ... just don't have a name yet for this "solar" type of contractor or serviceman. SunnyDaysAgain specialist?
gainsolarpower.com/system-repair/
One of the potential hold-ups for folks, that perhaps aren't so DIY *and* self-supporting, is the potential need for someone else to support it to make the project fly.
I've seen threads where it's kind of obvious that support is needed (or desired), even if we never hear back on the thread that the project got off the ground, or support wasn't needed after all, or whatever ...
What are we going to call these trades folk (that will come out and repair something they didn't install)? There's electrician (licensed or not), HVAC, plumber (licensed or not), etc ... just don't have a name yet for this "solar" type of contractor or serviceman. SunnyDaysAgain specialist?
EJansen
Solar Enthusiast
I was just watching a couple videos from an electrician/installer from around there. Gainesville, GA.
Seems like he more or less knows what he's talking about and is willing to work with people wanting to do some DIY. I saw some offgrid, groundmount, and solark videos in the list, which ought to be near what you may need. Website says he's do solar design and consulting at an hourly rate.
Home - Gain Solar
Based in Gainesville, GA, we offer professional solar installations to residents of Northeast GA and parts of NC and SC. Our solar installations include a
Yeah, Plus 1 for contacting Johnny V @ Gain. I don't personally know him, but I've chatted with him before on a few occasions and watched almost all of his videos and he seems like a great guy. If you're within his service area, and I think you area, I'd definitely give him a call if you aren't super comfortable with the DIY route.
Ahh... I didn't realize we now need to post safety warnings on everything in the DIY forum, but OK, here we go:
When you heat water and store it in a closed tank, it will build up pressure. So, please buy and use only buffer tanks designed to function as such, and make sure it has a functioning pressure relief valve on it. The people who sell you that tank in the US will almost certainly have installed that as a legal requirement in the manufacturing process, but maybe not so much everywhere in the world. So, now you know. Act accordingly. There ya go.
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I'm pretty sure it's actually the release of pressure and a massive steam buildup that causes them to go pop but as you said as long as the fitter has his certs and does his due diligence then there shouldn't be any issues.
You should get the weather trends for your build location for the past couple decades. This will help inform how you need to build your system. For example our mountain cabin (5200ft elevation) in TN is always 25° cooler than our primary residence in NC (700ft elevation). Significant difference and we rarely run the mini splits for cooling but they have been a savior for heating. It does get below -10°F in the winter but they still pump out heat and when we are there we have a wood burning stove on lower level and a massive air sucking beautiful fireplace on main (do not burn in this when cold).
Guess my point is get the treads. I didn’t realize a few hours of driving from primary residence would mean I needed to solve for heat, not cooling.
Edit: Get the wind trends also. In winter with the snow storms in the TN/NC mountains they bring a lot of wind at high elevation. 110mph gusts occur all the time.
Guess my point is get the treads. I didn’t realize a few hours of driving from primary residence would mean I needed to solve for heat, not cooling.
Edit: Get the wind trends also. In winter with the snow storms in the TN/NC mountains they bring a lot of wind at high elevation. 110mph gusts occur all the time.
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hardtop
New Member
I would spend the $30k to run power. There are two primary reasons a) you will increase the value of your home vs solar b) your alternative energy project will probably be way more than $30k.
Then there is maintenance and breakdowns and a whole hell of a lot of your time spent on an alternative energy project. I don't think it will ever end. What you could do if you are set on solar is do both. Run power and then complement it with solar.
Then there is maintenance and breakdowns and a whole hell of a lot of your time spent on an alternative energy project. I don't think it will ever end. What you could do if you are set on solar is do both. Run power and then complement it with solar.
mecdatlanta
New Member
Hi Hardtop, I appreciate your thoughts and certainly respect your opinion. For perspective, allow me to share some details regarding a quote I received this week:
- 40,000 watt Victron system.
- 40,000 Watts to resistive loads
- 32,000 Watts to inductive loads
- 80,000 Watts for brief surges
- 62 x 550W Solar Panels
- 8 x 15,300 Watt0hour batteries
The above system is likely going to power my house, maintenance-free for several years. What's the cost? All-in, under $80k. After federal credits, that will be closer to $55k. And if you subtract the $35k that I would otherwise pay to my utility, the total cost is close to... $20k
If I pay my utility company $35k to run a bunch of copper to my house, that's $35k that I will never get back. For $20k more, I'm willing to take a chance that I may have close to zero energy costs for the next 20 - 30 years, not have the negatives associated with being dependent on a utility company (including rolling blackouts, hacks from foreign entities, etc, etc), and (as a bonus) being able to be the cool kid on my block. Speaking of which, on that last point, I'm not sure where your stats are coming from regarding solar decreasing one's home value (please feel free to share if you have specific data), but everyone I talk to about the idea is fascinated and think it's the coolest thing ever. In fact, they are quite envious of my future situation where, granted there is some added responsibility, but I get to be my own power company. I think that's pretty cool, don't you?
The bottom line is, and in my mind, this is a low-risk proposition. If I find that taking on responsibility for my own power needs is too much, I can always spend the $35k and still benefit from a near-zero energy bill most of the time thanks to my investment in solar and batteries. I wouldn't rip everything out and go full-on grid. That would be silly. So anything invested in my setup is going to get used and will ultimately pay for itself (a lot earlier than I originally thought before I saw the above numbers, I might add!).
Respectfully,
Don
mecdatlanta
New Member
BTW, I didn't include the cost of a propane generator since I would be buying one regardless of my going off-grid or not. Just wanted to be clear!
CVCPJared
New Member
Under $80k is installed??
mecdatlanta
New Member
No, that's a DIY job. I think I can tackle it with help from a friend of two. Worst-case scenario, I can always call on an electrician. The vendors are really good about providing support and the tech, as amazing as it is, isn't that hard to install.
Doggydogworld
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2022
- Messages
- 366
You'll use more propane backing up solar than backing up the grid. That impacts your monthly electricity savings. How much depends on daily weather/production trends. Neighbors with solar may have good data.
HVAC should be your biggest consumer, followed by EV and hot water. Other things are usually rounding errors. Your 12 month usage chart is a great start, but is that based on heat pump heating or a gas furnace? If the latter you need to make a big adjustment during winter. Also:
- Why was September so much higher than the other months?
- Are the houses same size and construction?
- Are the climates the same? (as mentioned above, mountains can be much colder)
- Can you charge the EV in town during cloudy stretches?
Winter is the tough season -- low solar production combined with highest consumption for heating, EV and hot water. I'd definitely want dual-fuel or some other heat backup like a wood stove. Same if you go with hot water heat pump, etc. Not just for cold, cloudy stretches but also for when a heat pump breaks down.
House design and construction really matter. People already mentioned insulation and thermal mass. You can go further with passive solar or even a German-style Passivhaus design. These techniques cost money, but can save even more by downsizing your solar system, your battery, your heat pumps and generator.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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mecdatlanta
New Member
We work from home and are flexible with EV usage, since we do have a combustion engine car as well. I don't know why September spiked so much - that was a head-scratcher. And yes, we have natural gas here in the city, so our overall energy consumption would have been much higher if we were all-electric.
I will say that the house we are building will be much better insulated and although we have three kids living with us now, one is about to go off to college and the other two will be exiting over the next 5 years. That will result in lower energy usage for sure (gaming pcs can heat an entire room, and then some!). Also, the plan in retirement is to spend most of our winters in south FL, so the house should be empty during most of the low solar months.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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