Proper Grounding.

timselectric · Apr 26, 2024

glandpuck said:
I think we are saying the same thing but using different writing. AC grounding and DC grounding can be separated or connected together. AC grounding is needed at inverter buss bar. DC grounding is not needed inside inverter.

There should be only one grounding system, for everything.
Separate systems would have a voltage potential between them.
Which can be a shock hazzard, if someone came in contact with both of (between) them.

timselectric · Apr 26, 2024

Also auxiliary ground rods should be avoided.
There should only be one connection to the earth.

Offgrid Jungle · Jul 25, 2024

Wow, the nonsense spewed here is breathtaking . Lesson here is to not use the advice of the internet to design your system.

HRTKD · Jul 25, 2024

Offgrid Jungle said:
Wow, the nonsense spewed here is breathtaking . Lesson here is to not use the advice of the internet to design your system.

Without attribution and a refutation with facts, your comment is useless at best and at worst smears everyone that posted good information.

timselectric · Jul 25, 2024

I guess that things are different in the jungle.

sunshine_eggo · Jul 25, 2024

timselectric said:
I guess that things are different in the jungle.

Brett V · Jul 25, 2024

Offgrid Jungle said:
Wow, the nonsense spewed here is breathtaking . Lesson here is to not use the advice of the internet to design your system.

Please enlighten us.

Supervstech · Jul 25, 2024

HRTKD said:
Without attribution and a refutation with facts, your comment is useless at best and at worst smears everyone that posted good information.

Oh certainly there are incorrect garbage opinions on this and any public forum.

There are also SEVERAL highly qualified licensed electricians here posting very useful valid assistance here.

If you disagree with them, please be specific.

And be sure to cite your credentials, and NEC code references to back them up.

salaxi54 · Thursday at 6:04 AM

I'm a little confused concerning grounding of the panels... What i did was to order some panel grounding lugs, and passed the ground cable through every panel, connecting it with those lugs. Then the ground cable continues, going from the roof down to the field, where i "shoved" an 8-foot copper ground rod. I sure hope i'm not doing something wrong that way.

timselectric · Thursday at 6:15 AM

salaxi54 said:
I'm a little confused concerning grounding of the panels... What i did was to order some panel grounding lugs, and passed the ground cable through every panel, connecting it with those lugs. Then the ground cable continues, going from the roof down to the field, where i "shoved" an 8-foot copper ground rod. I sure hope i'm not doing something wrong that way.

We ground the panel frames (and anything metal) to make sure that it's always safe to touch.
To do this we run an EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) with the PV circuit wires, back to the grounding system. (Not to a separate ground rod)
The grounding system provides a low impedance (resistance) path for fault current back to the source. (Through the N/G bond)
So that if a fault occurs on a circuit, it's breaker or fuse will open the circuit.

Supervstech · Thursday at 6:48 AM

salaxi54 said:
I'm a little confused concerning grounding of the panels... What i did was to order some panel grounding lugs, and passed the ground cable through every panel, connecting it with those lugs. Then the ground cable continues, going from the roof down to the field, where i "shoved" an 8-foot copper ground rod. I sure hope i'm not doing something wrong that way.

Using the ground rod is allowed by code, BUT that rod ALSO has to be directly connected to the main house grounding conductor.
The new ground rod is not required.

salaxi54 · Thursday at 7:38 AM

So, this means that i'll have to do a search and locate the buildings' existing rod i guess. Wish me luck then...
EDIT: How's about me ending the grounding wire from the panels to the nearest to the power meter existing grounding wire?
This building is 50 years old, and has been vacant for the last 10 years. I haven't managed to locate any old rods yet, although i know for sure that they were required even then.

Supervstech · Thursday at 8:09 AM

salaxi54 said:
So, this means that i'll have to do a search and locate the buildings' existing rod i guess. Wish me luck then...
EDIT: How's about me ending the grounding wire from the panels to the nearest to the power meter existing grounding wire?
This building is 50 years old, and has been vacant for the last 10 years. I haven't managed to locate any old rods yet, although i know for sure that they were required even then.

Many homes only had water pipe ground even in the 70's.
Ground pipes were used also.
It would be a good idea to install a rod by your meter base, and tie into the main EGC and your rod you just installed.
Code now requires two rods, at least 6' apart, so those two would qualify for it.

timselectric · Thursday at 8:40 AM

salaxi54 said:
So, this means that i'll have to do a search and locate the buildings' existing rod i guess. Wish me luck then...
EDIT: How's about me ending the grounding wire from the panels to the nearest to the power meter existing grounding wire?
This building is 50 years old, and has been vacant for the last 10 years. I haven't managed to locate any old rods yet, although i know for sure that they were required even then.

You don't need to go to the existing rod.
You need to connect the the existing grounding system.
Where do your PV circuit conductors terminate?

Offgrid Jungle · Thursday at 8:46 AM

Ok, I'll throw one out for fun. UFER ground. It throws a wrench in the "one ground rod" comments. Have fun. (I don't feel the need to share my credentials since, as you say, the NEC and facts stand on their own)

Supervstech said:
Oh certainly there are incorrect garbage opinions on this and any public forum.

There are also SEVERAL highly qualified licensed electricians here posting very useful valid assistance here.

If you disagree with them, please be specific.

And be sure to cite your credentials, and NEC code references to back them up.

timselectric · Thursday at 9:02 AM

Offgrid Jungle said:
Ok, I'll throw one out for fun. UFER ground. It throws a wrench in the "one ground rod" comments. Have fun. (I don't feel the need to share my credentials since, as you say, the NEC and facts stand on their own)

NEC requires that you connect to all available grounding electrodes.
Which includes (but is not limited to) driven rods, ground plates, building steel, water and gas services, and concrete encased electrodes (UFER).
And the current code requires two ground rods spaced a minimum of 6' apart.
Which "one ground rod " comments are you referring to?

ThaiTaffy · Thursday at 9:16 AM

timselectric said:
NEC requires that you connect to all available grounding electrodes.
Which includes (but is not limited to) driven rods, ground plates, building steel, water and gas services, and concrete encased electrodes (UFER).
And the current code requires two ground rods spaced a minimum of 6' apart.
Which "one ground rod " comments are you referring to?

Do ufer class as a grounding rod in the sense that a copper grounding rod should be placed 6' from it?

timselectric · Thursday at 9:22 AM

ThaiTaffy said:
Do ufer class as a grounding rod in the sense that a copper grounding rod should be placed 6' from it?

No
The 6' rule for the two ground rods is there to increase the conductivity of the rod connection. They changed the rod requirement to two to improve the connection. But it wouldn't do any good, if they were right next to each other.

salaxi54 · Thursday at 9:24 AM

timselectric said:
You don't need to go to the existing rod.
You need to connect the the existing grounding system.
Where do your PV circuit conductors terminate?

The PV cables end at the rightmost circuit breaker you see in this panel before entering the Inverter:

timselectric · Thursday at 9:26 AM

salaxi54 said:
The PV cables end at the rightmost circuit breaker you see in this panel before entering the Inverter:

If it's an AIO, and you have a grid input there.
You should already have an EGC with your input circuit.
Connect to that, and you are done.

marionw · Thursday at 9:27 AM

What about a ground mounted array that uses steel/aluminum posts concreted four or more feet into the ground and where all metal parts, including panel frames are bonded together. There would be a ground conductor back to the house/garage/shed and the inverter bonded to the array mount. The mount itself is then also a "ground rod" thus creating a system where there are multiple earth ground points

salaxi54 · Thursday at 9:30 AM

timselectric said:
If it's an AIO, and you have a grid input there.
You should already have an EGC with your input circuit.
Connect to that, and you are done.

This is a rather small system of 1.2 Kw, completely independent of the rest of the house, as in totally off-grid.

timselectric · Thursday at 9:30 AM

marionw said:
What about a ground mounted array that uses steel/aluminum posts concreted four or more feet into the ground and where all metal parts, including panel frames are bonded together. There would be a ground conductor back to the house/garage/shed and the inverter bonded to the array mount. The mount itself is then also a "ground rod" thus creating a system where there are multiple earth ground points

That's an unavoidable situation.
It is what it is.
Make sure you have good SPD's on everything and cross your fingers.

timselectric · Thursday at 9:32 AM

salaxi54 said:
This is a rather small system of 1.2 Kw, completely independent of the rest of the house, as in totally off-grid.

Ok, but you still need to connect the inverter to the existing grounding system.
And by extension, the array can be grounded from that point.

salaxi54 · Thursday at 9:36 AM

timselectric said:
Ok, but you still need to connect the inverter to the existing grounding system.
And by extension, the array can be grounded from that point.

Gotcha! Thanks

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