so their are too many restrictions on posting here and this forum is on its downhill slide...

BMcL said:

It would be nice if this were true but the DIY Solar forum reeks from hypocrisy.
I was given a 30 day ban because ? Using the F word ? Using foul language ? Ignoring warnings from mods ?

NOPE !

I received this message about one month ago after being in a forum where we were debating vaccinations, treatments, mask requirements, etc.

It was a typical democrat-republican or liberal vs conservative debate :

Oops! We ran into some problems.

You have been banned for the following reason: Constant complaints from other (democrat) members……

Your ban will be lifted on Mar 1, 2022 at 2:00 AM.
-------------

We Believe in Free Speech at DIY Solar Forum (in unmoderated forums)​

There. I fixed it for you.

No more lies.

Click to expand...

Im with you there. I was banned for a week for "insulting other members" in that thread who were insulting me in every single post. When I got back and was immediately insulted I reported the post and actually posted "lets see if the mods enforce the rules equally."
Well what do you know I got a reply to my report "Will doesnt want this forum moderated".
Oh really now. This is a joke and if its the same mod, you have no ethics and no soul.

BMcL said:

...the DIY Solar forum reeks from hypocrisy...I was given a 30 day ban... because ... Constant complaints from other members……

Click to expand...

We're only getting your side of it and after being banned it would be a surprise if you weren't salty about it.

But then we don't have to judge, that's what the moderators & Will do. They have a long track record of doing good.
Hardly anyone wants to be a moderator, it's a tough job. But without them, the forums would be a far far worse place, I've seen firsthand what happens with bad moderators and this ain't it. If anything, you should be thanking Will and the moderators that there is a decent place on the web you can goto to get solar-based questions answered.

If you were banned from member complaints, can we members judge?
Let's look at your posts... Are you talking mostly about solar?
Nope. Most of your recent posts have been about Covid. Your "about" says you have a background in mechanical engineering, not medical or virology.

You know these forums aren't about Covid or politics, right? So, all this I'm denied free-speech and censorship is about an off-forum topic. I get you're passionate about it, but are solar forums even the place for those discussions?

Your opinions seem to be well aligned with the Fox News hyper-alarmist republican ideology. A lot of that "news" seems designed to enrage folks and propagate a party-aligned narrative. Your posts make it fairly clear that those arguing against your viewpoint are doing so from either ignorance or having the wool pulled over their eyes. I don't see any meeting of the minds, just trying to push a viewpoint.

Not surprising is the pushback from those aligned with the CNN hyper alarmist news propagating the democratic ideology.

Imagine the reaction of a forum member as a parent that has lost a child to covid seeing a post saying kids shouldn't be immunized. It doesn't matter who's right/wrong, the emotion is there.

If anything, Will just should have asked the moderators to delete any threads about Covid as they spin people up, cause hurt feelings, we lose members, and in the end, it provides nothing of value to the solar forums.

BMcL said:

...No more lies...

Click to expand...

The people we most often lie to are ourselves. It's not my fault, it's their fault...

But to be fair, I'm biased. I like the forums and believe they provide a valuable contribution to ordinary people trying to understand solar technology.

svetz said:

If you were banned from member complaints, can we members judge?
Let's look at your posts... Are you talking mostly about solar?
Nope. Most of your recent posts have been about Covid. Your "about" says you have a background in mechanical engineering, not medical or virology.

You know these forums aren't about Covid or politics, right? So, all this I'm denied free-speech and censorship is about an off-forum topic. I get you're passionate about it, but are solar forums even the place for those discussions?

Your opinions seem to be well aligned with the Fox News hyper-alarmist republican ideology.

Click to expand...

Can the members judge ? is that what you want ? A political thread where the democrats judge the opinions of the republicans ?

Am I talking mostly about solar ? I was banned after talking in CHIT CHAT, a "pretend" unmoderated forum where I was promised we could say what we think without reprisal (as long as we are civil).

And yes, I don't hide that I'm a republican. Apparently, that's ALL it takes to get banned !

My point is you pretend to be a free speech forum.
Be honest so people won't post in a forum like CHIT CHAT thinking it's safe to express your opinion. Obviously, it's NOT !

svetz said:

We're only getting your side of it and after being banned it would be a surprise if you weren't salty about it.

But then we don't have to judge, that's what the moderators & Will do. They have a long track record of doing good.
Hardly anyone wants to be a moderator, it's a tough job. But without them, the forums would be a far far worse place, I've seen firsthand what happens with bad moderators and this ain't it. If anything, you should be thanking Will and the moderators that there is a decent place on the web you can goto to get solar-based questions answered.

If you were banned from member complaints, can we members judge?
Let's look at your posts... Are you talking mostly about solar?
Nope. Most of your recent posts have been about Covid. Your "about" says you have a background in mechanical engineering, not medical or virology.

You know these forums aren't about Covid or politics, right? So, all this I'm denied free-speech and censorship is about an off-forum topic. I get you're passionate about it, but are solar forums even the place for those discussions?

Your opinions seem to be well aligned with the Fox News hyper-alarmist republican ideology. A lot of that "news" seems designed to enrage folks and propagate a party-aligned narrative. Your posts make it fairly clear that those arguing against your viewpoint are doing so from either ignorance or having the wool pulled over their eyes. I don't see any meeting of the minds, just trying to push a viewpoint.

Not surprising is the pushback from those aligned with the CNN hyper alarmist news propagating the democratic ideology.

Imagine the reaction of a forum member as a parent that has lost a child to covid seeing a post saying kids shouldn't be immunized. It doesn't matter who's right/wrong, the emotion is there.

If anything, Will just should have asked the moderators to delete any threads about Covid as they spin people up, cause hurt feelings, we lose members, and in the end, it provides nothing of value to the solar forums.


The people we most often lie to are ourselves. It's not my fault, it's their fault...

But to be fair, I'm biased. I like the forums and believe they provide a valuable contribution to ordinary people trying to understand solar technology.

Click to expand...

First off that was in the off topic forum dont know why you felt the need to disparage his postings as non solar.
Secondly youre all but admitting that you moderated his posts(actually his posting ability) out of bias against their content. Not for any violation of published rules. And to be sure Ive been told twice now that Will doesnt want the chit chat forum moderated. Is that the case or is that the excuse to use when the rules are not enforced on democrats?
In my experience, forum moderators only do their job in a respectable manner when they ignore the content of the posts and limit enforcement to published, plain black and white rules. Whatever that may be swear words, insults, copyrighted material.
Your argument about his posts and parents and children and covid leave everything up to complete ambiguity. Not a written rule. Hows he supposed to know what to post or not? We all want to follow rules, they have to be in writing.
If the rule is becoming "dont anger the democrats" and it seems thats the rule youve applied, TO A FORUM YOUVE STATED THE OWNER DOESNT WANT MODERATED, well thats a little weird.

The impression Ive gotten from some topics youve created is that youre above that and thats why youre a moderator.

(The short version)
If they complained about his posts why didnt they get the same message I got when I reported being insulted? His stance on covid is irrelevant if the forum isnt moderated.

Batvette said:

First off that was in the off topic forum dont know why you felt the need to disparage his postings as non solar.

Click to expand...

Covid is a topic that is emotionally charged and it polarizes and divides members. It really has no place on these forums, but it is allowed... it's the one forum for "anything".

But, all of what he's talking about has occurred in the "off topic" forum, so it's not that the "DIY Solar forum reeks from hypocrisy"; it's from a single emotionally turbulent topic on a single forum. It's a tough topic that everyone should realize must be a nightmare for the moderators to have to deal with.

Should the off-topic forum even be moderated? The answer must be yes, if nothing else to prevent Will from having to deal with lawsuits. People talk about free-speech, but they often fail to realize there are limits on it (e.g., inciting a riot will land you jail, telling people to not get the vaccine can get lawsuits against you).

Batvette said:

Secondly youre all but admitting that you moderated his posts(actually his posting ability) out of bias against their content.

Click to expand...

I'm not a moderator and can't do anything. It's these kinds of assumptions and baseless accusations that make people assume there is a conspiracy when there is none. Oh, you got banned... so it must be the moderator's biased ... it couldn't possibly be my fault.

Our moderators are a volunteer force doing the best they can, they should be applauded and not blamed.

Batvette said:

...when the rules are not enforced on democrats?...

Click to expand...

How would you know?
Moderators don't tell and only a few people admit to getting banned, usually because they want to complain about their treatment.

They've not banned me and I'm a Republican. Yet you assume I'm a democrat and arguing with you because you're a Republican. I'm just a Republican that believes Fox News is primarily an entertainment channel seeking to make money. Personally, I don't care if you're a socialist, French Canadian, a smurf, or all three. You're a good orator Batvette, you'd be a real force for good if your arguments were based on actual facts.

svetz said:

Covid is a topic that is emotionally charged and it polarizes and divides members. It really has no place on these forums, but it is allowed... it's the one forum for "anything".

But, all of what he's talking about has occurred in the "off topic" forum, so it's not that the "DIY Solar forum reeks from hypocrisy"; it's from a single emotionally turbulent topic on a single forum. It's a tough topic that everyone should realize must be a nightmare for the moderators to have to deal with.

Should the off-topic forum even be moderated? The answer must be yes, if nothing else to prevent Will from having to deal with lawsuits. People talk about free-speech, but they often fail to realize there are limits on it (e.g., inciting a riot will land you jail, telling people to not get the vaccine can get lawsuits against you).

I'm not a moderator and can't do anything. It's these kinds of assumptions and baseless accusations that make people assume there is a conspiracy when there is none. Oh, you got banned... so it must be the moderator's biased ... it couldn't possibly be my fault.

Our moderators are a volunteer force doing the best they can, they should be applauded and not blamed.


How would you know?
Moderators don't tell and only a few people admit to getting banned, usually because they want to complain about their treatment.

They've not banned me and I'm a Republican. Yet you assume I'm a democrat and arguing with you because you're a Republican. I'm just a Republican that believes Fox News is primarily an entertainment channel seeking to make money. Personally, I don't care if you're a socialist, French Canadian, a smurf, or all three. You're a good orator Batvette, you'd be a real force for good if your arguments were based on actual facts.

Click to expand...

Ooops thought you were the mod in question. That error does not diminish the fact I have been told twice by a moderator that Will didnt want this forum moderated when I reported posts with insults, yet I was banned for insults in that forum. Clearly unequal treatment. Is the reason political? Not sure but it is the reason in a lot of other forums, and at wikipedia theyve made it an institution.


Remember now. I was banned for insults in a forum I was previously told was unmoderated. How can this thus be my fault?

I'm pretty sure I know who the mod is.
And the mod's politics determine which republican gets banned, depending on how well the republican is doing in their debate.

The posters known as cdkipp, bradbill , Johnson and MurphyGuy (all left-wing socialists) have been the worst at dishing out personal insults. They especially love to make fun of religion too, a topic that will get you kicked off most forums.

Svetz said : Should the off-topic forum even be moderated? The answer must be yes, if nothing else to prevent Will from having to deal with lawsuits.
-------
Ok, that's fine. So why is this (see below) the basis for being banned ?

Oops! We ran into some problems. You have been banned for the following reason: Constant complaints from other (democrat) members……

BMcL said:

-------
Ok, that's fine. So why is this (see below) the basis for being banned ?

Oops! We ran into some problems. You have been banned for the following reason: Constant complaints from other (democrat) members……

Click to expand...

I can help with saying that this was not the basis for moderator action, because I complained just like probably others and I am not a democrat. I am not even a US citizen. And I saw the same messages that @Batvette mentioned about the off-topic forum not being moderated. I only drew other conclusions, namely that moderators probably wanted to keep their workload under control, but that they certainly would step in when it gets too colourful. There are always different interpretations possible of a socio-dynamic situation ;-)

I am not a person who thinks in categories or promotes schisms, in the contrary, the world is a colourful place with many shades. I am a European, I have travelled the Americas, Africa, and Arabia. I must admit that I sometimes pick up the glove, always trying not to get personal. Attack the argument, not the person. I think there's nothing wrong with it as long as it stays "I am ok, you are ok". That attitude or alignment has suffered a bit, lately. Let's try and mend it, instead of creating enemies.

And of course, back to sizing my solar power. Can't for the heck find reasonable bifacial panels in the 450W-range in my area. And proper tools are also a problem here at the fringes of Europe ...

Be it as it my, we don't need any more enemies.

BaronVerde said:

I can help with saying that this was not the basis for moderator action, because I complained just like probably others and I am not a democrat.

Click to expand...

Fine, you aren't a democrat, you're a liberal. No difference. You may be from Germany ? Doesn't matter.
You think the government has the right to vaccinate people against their will (as an example).

You also think a mod should ban someone for disagreeing with you ! I'm amazed more people aren't offended by your attitude.

BaronVerde said:

Be it as it my, we don't need any more enemies.

Click to expand...

Amen.

BaronVerde said:

I can help with saying that this was not the basis for moderator action, because I complained just like probably others and I am not a democrat. I am not even a US citizen.

Click to expand...

Americans both republican and democrat would do well to remember that. What we here ALL have in common is the desire to push alternative energy forward and do it on our own if we have to. There has to be 1000s of other internet venues better suited to duking it out politically than this DIY solar site. I've always tried to be an independent thinker and voter and am just glad I still get to vote at all. Most of us in the U.S. don't realize how privileged we really are. That's why we always play the victim.
There's a war heating up fast in Europe and we 'muricans are worried about $5 a gallon gasoline for our lawnmowers and ATVs and who is the most patriotic 'murican...
How long has gasoline been over $7 a gallon in the UK? How long has gasoline been over $5 in Australia? It just hit $3.30 a gallon here and people are ready to revolt. Smh.

Ozark Tinkering said:

Amen.

Americans both republican and democrat would do well to remember that. What we here ALL have in common is the desire to push alternative energy forward and do it on our own if we have to. There has to be 1000s of other internet venues better suited to duking it out politically than this DIY solar site. I've always tried to be an independent thinker and voter and am just glad I still get to vote at all. Most of us in the U.S. don't realize how privileged we really are. That's why we always play the victim.
There's a war heating up fast in Europe and we 'muricans are worried about $5 a gallon gasoline for our lawnmowers and ATVs and who is the most patriotic 'murican...
How long has gasoline been over $7 a gallon in the UK? How long has gasoline been over $5 in Australia? It just hit $3.30 a gallon here and people are ready to revolt. Smh.

Click to expand...

Ozark,
You miss the entire point.
There is a Chit Chat thread for politics and discussion of anything not about solar.
If solar is all you ever want to talk about, stay out of Chit Chat.
I have a Chevelle web site where I talk politics with my buddies. Also chevelles, house repairs and a million other things.
If you want a website that has a lot of clicks and ad revenue, you want free speech. Censorship costs you money.
If this website wants to be known as left-wing and siding with one party, go for it.
At least I know where you stand.

BMcL said:

At least I know where you stand.

Click to expand...

I don't care where you stand or fall. I'm too old to care. This is your favorite thing to do so someone else can deal with you. Life's too short.

BMcL said:

You also think a mod should ban someone for disagreeing with you ! I'm amazed more people aren't offended by your attitude.

Click to expand...

No, I do not think that. I might feel offended by being reduced to a political party affiliation if I let that feeling creep up in me. I do not have such an affiliation, and I am much more than that. I expect *any* person to be much more than that. Humans are so grrreat because of their ability to communicate and cooperate. Forums such as this (which enabled me to plan my installation) a just one tool, besides such basic things as a big brain, language, extremities for manipulation of things, and those for long distance hikes, tool fabrication and use, ...

American liberals and European liberals are totally different, almost opposing things.

But pls., do not reduce me to a political view, you are not doing me right that way.

Btw., I find that the fact we can disucss that actually nullifies the thread title.

Oh, did I mention that I am slightly drunk right now becaue I just returned from a downtown harbour bar ? So, nevermind

Over & out
A Green Baron on a Green Island with a Black Patch

Ozark Tinkering said:

Amen.

Americans both republican and democrat would do well to remember that. What we here ALL have in common is the desire to push alternative energy forward and do it on our own if we have to. There has to be 1000s of other internet venues better suited to duking it out politically than this DIY solar site. I've always tried to be an independent thinker and voter and am just glad I still get to vote at all. Most of us in the U.S. don't realize how privileged we really are. That's why we always play the victim.
There's a war heating up fast in Europe and we 'muricans are worried about $5 a gallon gasoline for our lawnmowers and ATVs and who is the most patriotic 'murican...
How long has gasoline been over $7 a gallon in the UK? How long has gasoline been over $5 in Australia? It just hit $3.30 a gallon here and people are ready to revolt. Smh.

Click to expand...

Gas has always been high in europe due to taxes, that we also pay just in other forms. If gas rises to 7 bucks a gallon we shouldnt just accept it as if we had been getting a bargain unless those other taxes were eliminated.
Off topic just sayin. The current administration totally f***ed up trying to force green policy

BaronVerde said:

American liberals and European liberals are totally different, almost opposing things.

But pls., do not reduce me to a political view, you are not doing me right that way.

Btw., I find that the fact we can disucss that actually nullifies the thread title.

Oh, did I mention that I am slightly drunk right now becaue I just returned from a downtown harbour bar ? So, nevermind

Over & out
A Green Baron on a Green Island with a Black Patch

Click to expand...

Thanks for being so open ! Not sure I know how american liberals and european liberals differ ?
I bet they agree with climate change doctrine. And forced vaccinations and masking.
They generally support what their government wants to do, as long as their party is in charge,
regardless of the science.

What did you think of the way Trudeau handled the Trucker situation in Canada ?
I look forward to hearing about your solar setup !

Ozark Tinkering said:

I don't care where you stand or fall. I'm too old to care. This is your favorite thing to do so someone else can deal with you. Life's too short.

Click to expand...

Don't be offended. I was simply pointing out that "free speech" is not something to take lightly.
We are losing it everywhere we turn.

BMcL said:

Don't be offended. I was simply pointing out that "free speech" is not something to take lightly.
We are losing it everywhere we turn.

Click to expand...

Ukraine's largest nuke is on fire after a Russian missile strike. We're gonna lose more than that.

Ozark Tinkering said:

Ukraine's largest nuke is on fire after a Russian missile strike. We're gonna lose more than that.

Click to expand...

Yep .... It's going to get even more crazy than I thought. I didn't think even the Russians were stupid enough to shell a nuclear plant.

I was talking to my daughter yesterday and she actually has an internet friend in a neighboring country .... I asked here how important the woke agenda seemed now .... and got "the look."

Bob B said:

Yep .... It's going to get even more crazy than I thought. I didn't think even the Russians were stupid enough to shell a nuclear plant.

Click to expand...

Vlad was stupid enough to back tRump and think he could break NATO. Yeah he's that stupid. Now the world is going to pay for both of their stupidity.

Ozark Tinkering said:

Vlad was stupid enough to back tRump and think he could break NATO. Yeah he's that stupid. Now the world is going to pay for both of their stupidity.

Click to expand...

I think you already know we are going to totally disagree about which of our presidents was culpable concerning this invasion .... how exactly did Vlad back Trump?

Ozark Tinkering said:

Ukraine's largest nuke is on fire after a Russian missile strike. We're gonna lose more than that.

Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I doubt it. This is FAKE NEWS.
This nuke plant looks to be in Russian-controlled territory. There is no way they would destroy it because they want to keep it and Putin would never be THAT stupid to make the whole world hate him.
The plant is hundreds of miles southeast of Kiev.
I suspect Ukrainians staged a fire close to the plant and are trying to pretend the russians did it.
They need us to enter this war and they are desperate. We should not fall for this !
I could be wrong but patience grasshopper !

It's Vlad's money that kept kept tRump afloat all those years. tRump Tower, MaraLago, Doral etc were great places to launder his money. Lately tRump and all his followers have just resorted to panhandling to keep him afloat. Now the house of cards is falling and vlad's days are probably numbered in the double digits and maybe tRump's too. So yeah I'm guessing we'll disagree.

BMcL said:

I could be wrong but I doubt it. This is FAKE NEWS.
This nuke plant looks to be in Russian-controlled territory. There is no way they would destroy it because they want to keep it.
The plant is hundreds of miles southeast of Kiev.
I suspect Ukrainians staged a fire close to the plant and are trying to pretend the russians did it.
They need us to enter this war and they are desperate. We should not fall for this !
I could be wrong but patience grasshopper !

Click to expand...

I hope you are right .... but I saw video footage of the plant under siege.

Ozark Tinkering said:

It's Vlad's money that kept kept tRump afloat all those years. tRump Tower, MaraLago, Doral etc were great places to launder his money. Lately tRump and all his followers have just resorted to panhandling to keep him afloat. Now the house of cards is falling and vlad's days are probably numbered in the double digits and maybe tRump's too. So yeah I'm guessing we'll disagree.

Click to expand...

OMG .... I think you must get your news from comic books .... no worth discussing that.

What's a matter boys? Yer Vlad mess up?