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Car Battery with Thunderbolt Magnum?

FoldedFrog

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Joined
Mar 8, 2022
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Nobody get mad! This is the first time I’ve ever fooled with solar and I am NOT an electrician. My question is simple: Can I use a regular car battery with my new Thunderbolt Magnum 100 watt solar kit? If not, what’s the issue? I have a few car batteries already and if I don’t have to shuck out an additional $75 for a puny 35ah, that would be ideal.
 
Can you? Yes. It will make all the things turn on and you can play with it.

Will it perform very well? No. The difference between car batteries and deep cycles is that car batteries will give you all the amps NOW! and deep cycles will give you a few amps all day long.

Will it get you a really bad idea of what solar can accomplish? Yes. The deep cycle batteries will give you a more accurate experience with the way solar packs and things work, but a car battery will work for now.

Do you need to shell out $75 for their little 35Ah AGM's? No. Go to Wally World and get one of their 120Ah deep cycles.

Now fall down the solar rabbit hole. :)

Oh, and don't feel too bad about buying it. I started out with a couple of the old 4x25w panel versions of that kit. They SUCKED!! :D
 
Well, it depends on what you want to do with it, doesn't it?
I actually ran a whole house for three years on 100W of panels (yes, plural :·) and some car starter batteries.
Actually, just the lights, a laptop and a small TV, really. Butane fridge and water heater, generator for washing machine and tools.

This was almost twenty years ago. We had no LED bulbs. I made them myself with LEDs and resistors.
So, we used the bare minimum electricity, batteries never really discharged at all, it worked.

Nowadays, with really cheap and efficient panels, it would be easier. If you plan to use next-to-nothing power off your batteries, you car starter ones should be OK.

More recently, I lived in for some six months a bus while building (assembling) a house. I did it off the bus's ten-year-old (24V, 320 Ah) starter batteries.
Plenty of panels (two ;·), and a 240V fridge. I strained them a bit, but they pulled through.

Now I have the same panels, but LFP 220 Ah batteries (24V). No strain ;·)
-
 
If their garden tractor battery works, a car battery would work.
garden tractor.JPG
 
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Well, it depends on what you want to do with it, doesn't it?
I know some locals that use junk car batteries. They had a LOT of them so they didn’t really get too discharged. For years. Did it work? Yup. They had so many that performance wasn’t a issue ever. They added water often I think.

So do it- no harm.

When I got my first two 100W panels and a pwm I was impatient to set up. I had two 8-year-old walmartha marine batteries that lost static charge quickly but they worked. Within a few weeks the pwm actually ’fixed’ them - they would hold a charge overnight and worked great until I got lazy and didn’t check water and that was the end of that!

Just know those batteries aren’t ideal and performance will be truncated probably.

Thunderbolt
Harbor Fright?
100W panel isn’t quite enough for one battery if you use it much. FYI
 
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Thank you all for your informative replies. Gets me started down the road. I really just wanted to get my feet wet and test it out. Kind of like a kid’s Science Project kit! :)
 
Kind of like a kid’s Science Project kit! :)
A good way to learn!
Car batteries work well but they do fail in different ways. Just make sure they are not an overall drain.
Also if you are using a PWM Charge controller you can substitute the battery for a 12v PSU, protected with a diode, like and old PC PSU.
 
Can I use a regular car battery with my new Thunderbolt Magnum 100 watt solar kit? If not, what’s the issue? I have a few car batteries already and if I don’t have to shuck out an additional $75 for a puny 35ah, that would be ideal.
The Harbor Freight "Thunderbolt" panels I had were amorphous silicon. They lost about 25% of their capacity in the first few months of operation, and more afterward. (By the way, that's acknowledged in the included instructions.) The four-panel set was heavy, cumbersome to set up, and fragile. I used them on and off for about three years with a 12-volt Group-27 size marine battery from Costco (about 100 amp-hours.) It worked pretty well to run ham radio gear and my CPAP in the tent, but the charge status info from the PWM controller was limited and vague. The panels lacked the capacity to ever complete a meaningful absorption or equalization phase. I calculated ~50 watts available charge in direct sun after battery losses.

If I had it to do over, for about the price of the Harbor Freight kit you can put together a starter system using a 100-watt, 12-volt Grape Solar monocrystaline panel from Home Depot, which will be easier to handle and set up, and will be more robust, efficient and long-lasting, and a 20-amp MPPT controller. Better yet, get with a group of like-minded friends and order a pallet of used 250-watt 24-volt panels from Santan Solar. One of those panels can provide 15+ amps charging at 12 volts using MPPT, or 8 amps even with a cheap PWM controller. If you order 10 panels or more, per-panel cost with shipping is less than new 100-watt 12-volt panels purchased individually.

If you have retired car batteries lying around, their best use in your situation is probably as core trades to get a discount on new Group 27 lead-acid marine batteries from Walmart or Costco. The new battery will weigh a little over 70 pounds, require occasionally adding distilled water, and emit a little gas during charging. But it will work well, has a second set of terminals for smaller cables, and is a good match to a solar panel in the 100 to 250-watt range. It's not a true deep cycle, but if you're running small stuff, you can stay within the top 50% of its capacity and it will work for years.

The Harbor Freight kit is aimed at people with limited knowledge who want to start quickly, have an old marine battery available, and don't have access to resources like this forum. It's a poor long-term value once you see what else is available for similar money. I ended up giving mine away to a friend who is starting out and wants to tinker.
 
A good way to learn!
Car batteries work well but they do fail in different ways. Just make sure they are not an overall drain.
Also if you are using a PWM Charge controller you can substitute the battery for a 12v PSU, protected with a diode, like and old PC PSU.
Thanks!
 
The Harbor Freight "Thunderbolt" panels I had were amorphous silicon. They lost about 25% of their capacity in the first few months of operation, and more afterward. (By the way, that's acknowledged in the included instructions.) The four-panel set was heavy, cumbersome to set up, and fragile. I used them on and off for about three years with a 12-volt Group-27 size marine battery from Costco (about 100 amp-hours.) It worked pretty well to run ham radio gear and my CPAP in the tent, but the charge status info from the PWM controller was limited and vague. The panels lacked the capacity to ever complete a meaningful absorption or equalization phase. I calculated ~50 watts available charge in direct sun after battery losses.

If I had it to do over, for about the price of the Harbor Freight kit you can put together a starter system using a 100-watt, 12-volt Grape Solar monocrystaline panel from Home Depot, which will be easier to handle and set up, and will be more robust, efficient and long-lasting, and a 20-amp MPPT controller. Better yet, get with a group of like-minded friends and order a pallet of used 250-watt 24-volt panels from Santan Solar. One of those panels can provide 15+ amps charging at 12 volts using MPPT, or 8 amps even with a cheap PWM controller. If you order 10 panels or more, per-panel cost with shipping is less than new 100-watt 12-volt panels purchased individually.

If you have retired car batteries lying around, their best use in your situation is probably as core trades to get a discount on new Group 27 lead-acid marine batteries from Walmart or Costco. The new battery will weigh a little over 70 pounds, require occasionally adding distilled water, and emit a little gas during charging. But it will work well, has a second set of terminals for smaller cables, and is a good match to a solar panel in the 100 to 250-watt range. It's not a true deep cycle, but if you're running small stuff, you can stay within the top 50% of its capacity and it will work for years.

The Harbor Freight kit is aimed at people with limited knowledge who want to start quickly, have an old marine battery available, and don't have access to resources like this forum. It's a poor long-term value once you see what else is available for similar money. I ended up giving mine away to a friend who is starting out and wants to tinker.
Excellent information! I have a solar ready camper with all the components built in. I figured I could just use this to power when camping primitive or if we have a home power failure and need to spend a night or two in the driveway. Additionally, I could learn and tinker. I do have 90 days to return but will check out the alternatives you recommend meantime. Thanks! PS: Can't believe I never really knew the difference between a starter battery and a deep cycle! Good stuff.
 
The starter battery has thinner plates, and many of them, to allow generating hundreds of amps in short bursts for starting an engine. If they're deep-cycled, the material they lose from the plates can leave the plates deformed in a way which can't be restored by charging.

The deep-cycle battery has fewer plates, so less peak current capability, but can be discharged more deeply without permanent damage. Golf cart batteries are in this class.

Marine batteries are a compromise between the two types. They can provide about 2/3 of the cold cranking amps of an auto battery, but can't hold up to really deep discharge like a golf cart battery.

Even golf cart batteries will last longer if not deeply discharged.

The coolest lead-acid cells I ever saw were in an old telephone company central switching office. They were built in clear glass cylinders about the diameter of 55-gallon drums, had extremely thick plates, and were periodically rebuilt by melting down and re-casting the lead plates. They were put back together with fresh sulfuric acid and essentially could be recycled indefinitely.

Society doesn't really want us doing this anymore, even if we're careful, but lead-acid is actually the technology which has the best recycling potential given current state of the art.
 
The starter battery has thinner plates, and many of them, to allow generating hundreds of amps in short bursts for starting an engine. If they're deep-cycled, the material they lose from the plates can leave the plates deformed in a way which can't be restored by charging.

The deep-cycle battery has fewer plates, so less peak current capability, but can be discharged more deeply without permanent damage. Golf cart batteries are in this class.

Marine batteries are a compromise between the two types. They can provide about 2/3 of the cold cranking amps of an auto battery, but can't hold up to really deep discharge like a golf cart battery.

Even golf cart batteries will last longer if not deeply discharged.

The coolest lead-acid cells I ever saw were in an old telephone company central switching office. They were built in clear glass cylinders about the diameter of 55-gallon drums, had extremely thick plates, and were periodically rebuilt by melting down and re-casting the lead plates. They were put back together with fresh sulfuric acid and essentially could be recycled indefinitely.

Society doesn't really want us doing this anymore, even if we're careful, but lead-acid is actually the technology which has the best recycling potential given current state of the art.
Good stuff!
 

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