Lifepo4 dead HELP

Texas-Mark · Mar 5, 2023

MisterSandals said:
I should butt out as i have not been following as closely as you have. Sorry, good luck to all.

Actually you made a good point. If it still functions within an acceptable voltage range, might be ok to just leave it and make other parameter adjustments. However, if the BMS has other issues, I personally would not trust it long term.

What I wonder is if the BMS is 'stuck' saying 3 string only because one cell has gone over voltage a few times and if it will somehow 'reset' when the battery is drained low enough.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

Texas-Mark said:
Actually you made a good point. If it still functions within an acceptable voltage range, might be ok to just leave it and make other parameter adjustments. However, if the BMS has other issues, I personally would not trust it long term.

I really think it was my fault messing around in the settings as the 4 batteries have been working fine all along aside from the cell deviation but that was fine with me. I just cant understand why turning off the dmos and waking up the battries caused 1 cell to not be apart of the string but still the bms sees all 4 batteries in the details and even shows the voltage for each individual cell.

D71 · Mar 5, 2023

Mickie said:
I really think it was my fault messing around in the settings as the 4 batteries have been working fine all along aside from the cell deviation but that was fine with me. I just cant understand why turning off the dmos and waking up the battries caused 1 cell to not be apart of the string but still the bms sees all 4 batteries in the details and even shows the voltage for each individual cell.

Couple questions:

what program are you using to get into your himassi battery?

what do you plan to do now?

unfortunately the cheapest solution might be a shot gun it and that is buy a new himassi battery. Himassi might take that one back but might not now that you opened it. The guy few post back from Current Connected is either saying we got junk batteries with himassi or he is not. ……. what do you see for the cells and such? I think you got into something ….. when found my bms was bad it had a date of like 1971 or 1972 …

Lifepo4 dead HELP

@Mickie which configuration parameters did you change in the BMS bluetooth app? Before it stopped working i turned off dmos. Then the bms shut down so i was unable to see the bluetooth so i woke it up with a ac wall charger then it started showing 10.-- volts.

diysolarforum.com

Texas-Mark · Mar 5, 2023

I had to go back and re-read a few things. As I understand it, the BMS is correctly reading the individual cells, but is incorrectly reporting the correct cell sum voltage (due to thinking it is 3 string). And it appears the output of the BMS is the correct voltage. I assume the BMS can cut off charging when a cell reaches high voltage cuttoff. So that would leave the cell sum voltage cuttoff as the only real thing to work around. How low can the sum voltage cutoff be set to? If it could be set low to like 10.9V (3.65x3), that might be a way to charge it closer to full capacity. Of course low voltage sum cutoff would have to be lowered a lot too. Sort of a kludge, but perhaps a way to keep the BMS in there for some protection until a fix for the 3 string is found, or a replacement BMS is installed.

Also, that one rogue cell will probably still prevent reaching full sum voltage no matter what. Since the battery is already opened, might be a good time to balance them.

Pim57 · Mar 5, 2023

The great imbalance might be the reason the bms won’t detect all 4 cells in the string at startup.

I agree with @Texas-Mark to take advantage of the opened box and manually balance the cells. You can manually balance the cells by discharging one high cell at a time with a light bulb.

Once all the cells are within let’s say 50 mV disconnect and reconnect after a minute the balance cables to restart the bms. Hopefully the bms will now detect all 4 cells in the string. Wait a minute before re-inserting the balance cables to make sure the bms is powered down completely.

D71 · Mar 5, 2023

you can maybe ask for your money back if the Himassi cells are not as they say for advertisement…. 5000+ I’d be nice …. versus pushy in the email. If it came from amazon would use it as they respond faster there.

However just 1 Battleborn 12 volt 100ah battery from Current Connected will cost ~ what 4 Himassi 12 volt 100ah batteries cost.

Battle Born 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery - Group 27 | Current Connected

Upgrade to the Battle Born 12V 100Ah Lithium Battery! Certified safety, notable specifications, and unrivaled endurance for all your energy storage needs!

www.currentconnected.com

$4,147.32

HiMASSi LiFePO4 Battery

Himassi LiFePO4 batteries will get you going and then continue to power the comforts of home while in the great outdoors. Lithium 12v 24v 48v deep cycle batteries are specially designed to offer RV/Camper, Marine, Overland/Van, and off-grid power applications.

www.amazon.com

$1,069.96 my cost delivered from Amazon when they were on sale

Does 4 x the cost sound good to you? Some ppl will say if you had bought battleborn then you would not be having these problems. That might be truth and it might not.

I looked at this and made my purchase decision. = Himassi …. now I have replaced one of mine for a bad bms blue tooth feature under warranty. Was amazed the chinese gave a warranty and honored it. Talk to them-Himassi. They, Himassi might have the answerS you need. Good luck with the translator.

Besides contacting Himassi …. this guy, Amples is only other person think has been inside the himassi battery for dealing with the bms.

amples

diysolarforum.com

unless know what am doing stay away from things like inside the himassi bms software since don’t see any documentation.
If it were broke and no warranty then would disassemble to play. Just me.

Is your purchased active balancer still hooked up to it?

btw since you are in it and looking ….. is the Himassi the same as the Chins….

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

Texas-Mark said:
I had to go back and re-read a few things. As I understand it, the BMS is correctly reading the individual cells, but is incorrectly reporting the correct cell sum voltage (due to thinking it is 3 string). And it appears the output of the BMS is the correct voltage. I assume the BMS can cut off charging when a cell reaches high voltage cuttoff. So that would leave the cell sum voltage cuttoff as the only real thing to work around. How low can the sum voltage cutoff be set to? If it could be set low to like 10.9V (3.65x3), that might be a way to charge it closer to full capacity. Of course low voltage sum cutoff would have to be lowered a lot too. Sort of a kludge, but perhaps a way to keep the BMS in there for some protection until a fix for the 3 string is found, or a replacement BMS is installed.

Also, that one rogue cell will probably still prevent reaching full sum voltage no matter what. Since the battery is already opened, might be a good time to balance them.

The issue with the balancing is with all 4 battries not just this 1 they all behave the same. Qltho some of them difference isnt as big as this one. Im not sure i understand what ur saying qbout the high voltage and low voltage. Is that in regards to me reconnecting the battery bk into series with the bad bms?

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

D71 said:
Couple questions:

what program are you using to get into your himassi battery?

what do you plan to do now?

unfortunately the cheapest solution might be a shot gun it and that is buy a new himassi battery. Himassi might take that one back but might not now that you opened it. The guy few post back from Current Connected is either saying we got junk batteries with himassi or he is not. ……. what do you see for the cells and such? I think you got into something ….. when found my bms was bad it had a date of like 1971 or 1972 …

Lifepo4 dead HELP

@Mickie which configuration parameters did you change in the BMS bluetooth app? Before it stopped working i turned off dmos. Then the bms shut down so i was unable to see the bluetooth so i woke it up with a ac wall charger then it started showing 10.-- volts.

diysolarforum.com

The app is VIP BMS thats the company that actually makes the bms.
I might have to buy a programable bms which is gonna cost alot which i dnt wanna do right now. It would cost too much for me to ship it back to himassi as i live in jamaica that is y i opened it in the first place.

Mickie said:
The issue with the balancing is with all 4 battries not just this 1 they all behave the same. Qltho some of them difference isnt as big as this one. Im not sure i understand what ur saying qbout the high voltage and low voltage. Is that in regards to me reconnecting the battery bk into series with the bad bms?

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

D71 said:
you can maybe ask for your money back if the Himassi cells are not as they say for advertisement…. 5000+ I’d be nice …. versus pushy in the email. If it came from amazon would use it as they respond faster there.

However just 1 Battleborn 12 volt 100ah battery from Current Connected will cost ~ what 4 Himassi 12 volt 100ah batteries cost.

Battle Born 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery - Group 27 | Current Connected

Upgrade to the Battle Born 12V 100Ah Lithium Battery! Certified safety, notable specifications, and unrivaled endurance for all your energy storage needs!

www.currentconnected.com

$4,147.32

HiMASSi LiFePO4 Battery

Himassi LiFePO4 batteries will get you going and then continue to power the comforts of home while in the great outdoors. Lithium 12v 24v 48v deep cycle batteries are specially designed to offer RV/Camper, Marine, Overland/Van, and off-grid power applications.

www.amazon.com

$1,069.96 my cost delivered from Amazon when they were on sale

Does 4 x the cost sound good to you? Some ppl will say if you had bought battleborn then you would not be having these problems. That might be truth and it might not.

I looked at this and made my purchase decision. = Himassi …. now I have replaced one of mine for a bad bms blue tooth feature under warranty. Was amazed the chinese gave a warranty and honored it. Talk to them-Himassi. They, Himassi might have the answerS you need. Good luck with the translator.

Besides contacting Himassi …. this guy, Amples is only other person think has been inside the himassi battery for dealing with the bms.

amples

diysolarforum.com

unless know what am doing stay away from things like inside the himassi bms software since don’t see any documentation.
If it were broke and no warranty then would disassemble to play. Just me.

Is your purchased active balancer still hooked up to it?

btw since you are in it and looking ….. is the Himassi the same as the Chins….

Yes its the same battery in this video.. its a lot easier to disassemple than the way will did it. I used 2 knives to open it and pulled out the battery easily but its the same with the 2 heating pad, the quick connecting bluetooth and the same vip bms. And wiring the same way too. I think its a decent quality battery i just think i messed with stuff i wasnt supposed to.

D71 · Mar 5, 2023

Mickie said:
The app is VIP BMS thats the company that actually makes the bms.
I might have to buy a programable bms which is gonna cost alot which i dnt wanna do right now. It would cost too much for me to ship it back to himassi as i live in jamaica that is y i opened it in the first place.

Himassi paid my return shipping under warranty. That is same bms as chins - someone on internet said they are same battery different box Himassi much cheaper. I dunno not had mine apart.

I mentioned it to you already…. Would take mine apart if no warranty.

you were reading voltage from 3 cells earlier. Not 4 cells. as shown in the picture. It threw me off. Since you were across only 3…. Cells.
if your cells are all 4 reading 13.+ it is the bms or wiring …… not the cells. The cells are if reading actually 13+ volts as you stated across all 4 cells more then likely fine…

I would still contact himassi. They might send you a bms if you explain it to them and they might want you to send pictures if requested. I had to send them a picture of the 1972 year date for the bms.

Sorry you are having trouble it can happen with anything. Again if price for bms is to high a whole battery might be cheaper …. If you don’t have to many cycles on current batteries …. Or the bms…. Hopefully the wiring is good.

I will open mine if when have problems if himassi is no help for me. Again if 4 cells are all reading 13+ volts across them as you indicated and as shown in this picture then I’d disregard any comments to drain and such as it is not a cell…. Across 3 cells will show around 10 volts such as this picture.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

D71 said:
Himassi paid my return shipping under warranty. That is same bms as chins - someone on internet said they are same battery different box Himassi much cheaper. I dunno not had mine apart.

I mentioned it to you already…. Would take mine apart if no warranty.

you were reading voltage from 3 cells earlier. Not 4 cells. as shown in the picture. It threw me off. Since you were across only 3…. Cells.
if your cells are all 4 reading 13.+ it is the bms or wiring …… not the cells. The cells are if reading actually 13+ volts as you stated across all 4 cells more then likely fine…

I would still contact himassi. They might send you a bms if you explain it to them and they might want you to send pictures if requested. I had to send them a picture of the 1972 year date for the bms.

Sorry you are having trouble it can happen with anything. Again if price for bms is to high a whole battery might be cheaper …. If you don’t have to many cycles on current batteries …. Or the bms…. Hopefully the wiring is good.

I will open mine if when have problems if himassi is no help for me. Again if 4 cells are all reading 13+ volts across them as you indicated and as shown in this picture then I’d disregard any comments to drain and such as it is not a cell…. Across 3 cells will show around 10 volts such as this picture.i think its the bms. Did u get a vip bms or a different bms?

Texas-Mark · Mar 5, 2023

Mickie said:
Im not sure i understand what ur saying qbout the high voltage and low voltage.

In post #15, you had a screenshot of the settings. There is a cell high voltage cutoff which shows 3.65v which is fine. Charging will stop whenever any cell goes over that regardless of the total pack voltage. You also have a battery over charge voltage and over charge release. Since the BMS is not reporting the correct total voltage, it will never see that. You could lower it to a value equating to a 3 cell battery (if it will go that low). And the low voltage cutoff of 11V is also going to be too high since the BMS is not even seeing that now. That would need to be lowered too. This is assuming you can't get it to see the 4th cell.

Also, I don't think it matters, but the full voltage is set to 13.8v. Not sure what effect that would have, but it may have to be lowered too. Basically just trying to fudge the settings enough to get a usable range out of it.

On the positive side as long as the BMS is working to cut off on high cell voltage (3.65v) you won't damage anything.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

Texas-Mark said:
In post #15, you had a screenshot of the settings. There is a cell high voltage cutoff which shows 3.65v which is fine. Charging will stop whenever any cell goes over that regardless of the total pack voltage. You also have a battery over charge voltage and over charge release. Since the BMS is not reporting the correct total voltage, it will never see that. You could lower it to a value equating to a 3 cell battery (if it will go that low). And the low voltage cutoff of 11V is also going to be too high since the BMS is not even seeing that now. That would need to be lowered too. This is assuming you can't get it to see the 4th cell.

Also, I don't think it matters, but the full voltage is set to 13.8v. Not sure what effect that would have, but it may have to be lowered too. Basically just trying to fudge the settings enough to get a usable range out of it.

On the positive side as long as the BMS is working to cut off on high cell voltage (3.65v) you won't damage anything.

Yea it does shut down the whole battery at around 10.9..
And at a low of 9.... Id have to re charge and check those.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

This is the battery now as i was discharging it from earlier. The delta is now very low.

Texas-Mark · Mar 5, 2023

D71 said:
I will open mine if when have problems if himassi is no help for me. Again if 4 cells are all reading 13+ volts across them as you indicated and as shown in this picture then I’d disregard any comments to drain and such as it is not a cell…

I think you are misunderstanding. We know it's not the cells. We are trying to get the BMS to recognize all four cells again (something caused it to switch from 4 string to 3 string). And also to balance them (which they could use).

42OhmsPA · Mar 5, 2023

Mickie said:
This is the battery now as i was discharging it from earlier. The delta is now very low.

Top right side. BMS is in 'protect state.

Also agree with other that you should try to balance the cells better. The delta will get a lot better at the lower voltages, you're in the' flatterline' of the curve.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
Top right side. BMS is in 'protect state.

Also agree with other that you should try to balance the cells better. The delta will get a lot better at the lower voltages, you're in the' flatterline' of the curve.

Its reading low voltage cuz of the 3 cells so i guess thats y the protect state

Texas-Mark · Mar 5, 2023

Mickie said:
This is the battery now as i was discharging it from earlier. The delta is now very low.

That is normal during discharge and even the beginning of charge even for unbalanced cells.

Lets say 3 cells are at 85% and one is at 90% They will all be close on voltage. But during charge, once the 90% one hits 3.4V or so, it will shoot up quickly while the other 3 lag. The high one then triggers cell over voltage and the other 3 cells are not quite full. Thus your pack voltage may be a little low.

Note: None of this is really directly related to the issue at hand (trying to get the BMS to see a 4 string again) unless cycling things can somehow reset it.

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

Texas-Mark said:
That is normal during discharge even for unbalanced cells.

Oh ok

Mickie · Mar 5, 2023

If after i discharge it completey the bms doesnt recognize the 4th cell. I will try and configure it like u said for a 3 cell battery until i can replace the bms. If u know of any bms that i could use that wont cost a lot could u send the link.

Lifepo4 dead HELP

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