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The media's ignorance on solar panel life - BBC

wattmatters said:
That's actually incredibly difficult to do. It's much easier to send a space craft on a journey to leave the solar system than it is to send it to the Sun.

Getting to the Sun requires launching a rocket at ~67,000 mph in the opposite direction to the Earth's orbit. That's almost twice the speed of the fastest rocket ever launched.

It can be done with very long and convoluted gravity assist orbital paths, either first to the outer planets, or involving multiple passes of the Earth and Venus.
Click to expand...
Why?
Leave earth, fly to the sun. Should be fairly simple. (As space travel goes)
 
wattmatters said:
That's actually incredibly difficult to do. It's much easier to send a space craft on a journey to leave the solar system than it is to send it to the Sun.

Getting to the Sun requires launching a rocket at ~67,000 mph in the opposite direction to the Earth's orbit. That's almost twice the speed of the fastest rocket ever launched.

It can be done with very long and convoluted gravity assist orbital paths, either first to the outer planets, or involving multiple passes of the Earth and Venus.
Click to expand...
Sounds kinda like Star Trek time travel methods.
 
I can see it now. Instead of corrugated metal being used for urban shanties and back wood shacks used solar panels will become the inexpensive alternative. Better than cardboard for under the overpass homesteads.
 
Not sure how true this is but I heard silver is one of the biggest blockers for panel creation. Silver is still pretty cheap though so that means recycling panels is just not worth it for the ~2+ ounces you get from a panel. The thought is that as silver goes up in value due to more demand for panels, then it will be more profitable to recycle them for the aluminum and silver. Of course as silver goes up, new panels would also cost more if not subsidized by governments.
 
Heck, I’m not worried about solar panel longevity because in 20 years we’ll all have cheap inexhaustible fusion power in every city ?
 
Yeah I can’t wait to see how they’ll spin this in CA when it all goes dark. Great speeches and proclamations with little action.
 
wattmatters said:
Not here it isn't.

99.8% of solar PV is grid-tied and DIY grid-tied is verboten (unless you happened to be an accredited solar PV installer and licensed electrician).

DIY here is pretty much confined to off-grid stuff. Even off-grid the rules are fairly restrictive, most of us which do it are operating in a bit of a grey zone. If it's a 12 V or a 24 V system you are (mostly) fine but once you start working with 48 V systems, well you hit limits of what you are permitted to do pretty quickly. I do zero of anything on the AC output side. My electrician does all of that.
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which is related to this article...
both are heavily infuenced by lobbist, from both the installers and oil .
both have a very vested interest in making legal diy as hard as possible, and their product look as cheap or "good" as possible.
solar panel consist of silicum ( sand) , glass ( sand again) and aluminium, all of which are very recycleble
 
DIYrich said:
Savings in disposal costs offset some of that.
Click to expand...
That is actually part of the problem; if the benefit is avoiding disposal cost then any crap is shipped over for someone else to sort out, likely with more damage than it started with.
 
houseofancients said:
which is related to this article...
both are heavily infuenced by lobbist, from both the installers and oil .
both have a very vested interest in making legal diy as hard as possible, and their product look as cheap or "good" as possible.
solar panel consist of silicum ( sand) , glass ( sand again) and aluminium, all of which are very recycleble
Click to expand...

This article is saying that with current growth, for 2050, there are several things that will need increased mining for: Indium (x12), Neodymium (x7), and Silver (x3).

www.popularmechanics.com

We Might Not Have Enough Materials for All the Solar Panels and Wind Turbines We Need

We'll need to be mining a dozen times as many metals to meet demand for wind turbines and solar panels by 2050.
www.popularmechanics.com www.popularmechanics.com

Are these elements recyclable too? And more importantly, do the market conditions make them profitable to recycle? Because without that, they're likely not going to be recycled. This is typically is the problem with subsidies / price fixing either on the low or high sides.
 
timselectric said:
Why?
Leave earth, fly to the sun. Should be fairly simple. (As space travel goes)
Click to expand...
Because physics. It's way, way harder to go towards the Sun than away from it.

When you leave the Earth you start out with the Earth's existing orbital velocity plus whatever extra velocity the rocket imparts (which can be positive or negative relative to the Earth's orbital direction).

In order to fly (fall) into the Sun the orbital velocity needs to be reduced to zero. If your orbital velocity is not zero then you just end up in a different orbit around the Sun and will never actually fly (fall) into it.

The Earth's orbital velocity is ~30 km/sec (averages at 29.78 km/s). So to reach an orbital velocity of zero you need enough rocket power to go 30 km/s in the opposite direction. We don't as yet have a rocket capable of reaching that sort of orbital velocity when leaving the Earth. It's nearly twice the fastest speed ever achieved. The fuel demand would be HUGE (because of the rocket equation).

It's possible to reduce the energy demand via use of a complex orbital path using multiple gravity assist flybys but it takes a very long time and increase the chance of error. The least energy demand is probably flying out via Jupiter first.

The Parker Solar Probe used seven gravity assist flybys of Venus in order to reach its highly elliptical orbit enabling it to make close passes of the Sun.
 
girfold said:
Not sure how true this is but I heard silver is one of the biggest blockers for panel creation. Silver is still pretty cheap though so that means recycling panels is just not worth it for the ~2+ ounces you get from a panel. The thought is that as silver goes up in value due to more demand for panels, then it will be more profitable to recycle them for the aluminum and silver. Of course as silver goes up, new panels would also cost more if not subsidized by governments.
Click to expand...

Don’t solar panels use like a quarter of that amount of silver?
 
Danke said:
Don’t solar panels use like a quarter of that amount of silver?
Click to expand...
Yes.

And recycling Silver from PV is getting easier and way less energy intensive. This research showed 100% recovery is possible within 24 hours at room temperature:
www.sciencedirect.com

Valuable metal recycling from thin film CIGS solar cells by leaching under mild conditions

The increase in the manufacturing of copper-indium-gallium-diselenide (CIGS) thin film photovoltaics is accompanied by a growing amount of production …
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com

It's was for thin film PV but I'd imagine similar approach can be applied to more common silicon PV.
 
wattmatters said:
Because physics. It's way, way harder to go towards the Sun than away from it.

When you leave the Earth you start out with the Earth's existing orbital velocity plus whatever extra velocity the rocket imparts (which can be positive or negative relative to the Earth's orbital direction).

In order to fly (fall) into the Sun the orbital velocity needs to be reduced to zero. If your orbital velocity is not zero then you just end up in a different orbit around the Sun and will never actually fly (fall) into it.

The Earth's orbital velocity is ~30 km/sec (averages at 29.78 km/s). So to reach an orbital velocity of zero you need enough rocket power to go 30 km/s in the opposite direction. We don't as yet have a rocket capable of reaching that sort of orbital velocity when leaving the Earth. It's nearly twice the fastest speed ever achieved. The fuel demand would be HUGE (because of the rocket equation).

It's possible to reduce the energy demand via use of a complex orbital path using multiple gravity assist flybys but it takes a very long time and increase the chance of error. The least energy demand is probably flying out via Jupiter first.

The Parker Solar Probe used seven gravity assist flybys of Venus in order to reach its highly elliptical orbit enabling it to make close passes of the Sun.
Click to expand...
Well, then just sling it out of the solar system. Out of sight, out of mind. lol
 
If ya just launch all the stuff after being chopped up sorta small about 100 miles or so up .. don’t get near orbit speed so it will soon fall.….opened the cargo doors and throw it all out…….let it all fall to earth and burn up way before hitting earth… then have the rockets land take another load…24/7 and etc ..etc…
thousands of small asteroids do this daily..all over earth..

if this idea bugs the Eco people the Plan Two…

Launch it way up , aim it at a star or somthing that an easy path with regards to leaving earths gravity…jettison it outward with forward thrust.. it will be out there fo a zillion years going somewhere.
,( Look at Elon’s roadster still buzzing around the cosmos).

Eventually it will get trapped by some planets gravity pulled into its atmosphere and burn up out there..if we piss off another species doing thst and they come after us ,it won’t matter…
by then we will all have died off or been harvested for food anyway…

It’s only logical ….get rid of the stuff somewhere else…
 
wattmatters said:
Because physics. It's way, way harder to go towards the Sun than away from it.

When you leave the Earth you start out with the Earth's existing orbital velocity plus whatever extra velocity the rocket imparts (which can be positive or negative relative to the Earth's orbital direction).

In order to fly (fall) into the Sun the orbital velocity needs to be reduced to zero. If your orbital velocity is not zero then you just end up in a different orbit around the Sun and will never actually fly (fall) into it.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that assume you want 0 velocity when you arrive at the sun. Instead of firing rockets in the opposite direction of Earth's path to loose velocity, couldn't you fire perpendicular, and gain acceleration towards the sun? Kind of like a meteor hitting earth. It has a lot of velocity.
 
timselectric said:
One man's trash, is another species treasure.
Click to expand...
If we discovered a 55 gallon drum launched from another planet 5000 years ago… full of artifacts of their planet and life style and knowledge .…do ya think it would be valuable ..? Do ya think we would take it to the landfill..?
 
Jim H said:
If we discovered a 55 gallon drum launched from another planet 5000 years ago… full of artifacts of their planet and life style and knowledge .…do ya think it would be valuable ..? Do ya think we would take it to the landfill..?
Click to expand...
Proof of life, other than our own. $$$$$
 
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timselectric said:
It's ok, most Americans are overweight anyway. lol
Click to expand...
What did ole timers do for a turkey or goose before Christmas….?.. fattened him up…made him think life was grand ……and then…………………………………………………..?
 
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