320ah LifeP04 in a 100ah Case Size? With Heat and Bluetooth.

[Rocksnsalt]

Royer Batteries 320Ah Smart Heated LiFePO4 Battery in the size of a ”normal” 100ah?

Seems to good to be true, same as I think about the Monster Lithium 344ah offering.

Is this actually possible? And if it is, why isn’t the marketplace full of such?
That much power in so little space would be a huge plus for vans, rv’s, tiny homes etc.

Micro 12V 320Ah 4.1kWh LiFePO4 Battery

Smarter | Smaller | Lighter | Better -- Safe Lithium Smart Batteries. Increase your battery capacity and lifetime.

www.royerbatteries.com

12V Batteries

Monster Marine Lithium Batteries, highest quality, tough design, and most affordable batteries for all of your Lithium Battery needs! 12v, 24v, 36v, single batteries.

www.monstermarinelithium.com

 

[Rocksnsalt]

??
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[Toddmccollam]

> why isn’t the marketplace full of such?

It kind of is, at least in applications which require dense batteries. The lithionics 320AH is similar in size to this and it's everywhere, despite costing $4500 each.

The lithionics is 3.15 watt per cubic inch and 68 lbs, this battery is 3.5 watt per cubic inch and 64 lbs.

The cells they claim to be using are over 5 watt per cubic inch so the battery is theoretically possible. But I don't think most applications really need the densest possible energy storage.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

> why isn’t the marketplace full of such?

It kind of is, at least in applications which require dense batteries. The lithionics 320AH is similar in size to this and it's everywhere, despite costing $4500 each.

The lithionics is 3.15 watt per cubic inch and 68 lbs, this battery is 3.5 watt per cubic inch and 64 lbs.

The cells they claim to be using are over 5 watt per cubic inch so the battery is theoretically possible. But I don't think most applications really need the densest possible energy storage.

Thanks for your response.
Space is key in vans / small RV’s, so a lot of energy in a small form factor is very desirable.

But at $4500 /320ah, Lithionics batteries are for the 1%’ers, a group I and most other van and small rv owners are not part of.
So I guess my “everywhere” is not the same as yours. ?

 

[Toddmccollam]

Space is key in vans / small RV’s, so a lot of energy in a small form factor is very desirable.

But at $4500 /320ah, Lithionics batteries are for the 1%’ers, a group I and most other van and small rv owners are not part of.
So I guess my “everywhere” is not the same as yours. ?

So I own a "B+" type RV, in which they are fairly popular because space is tight and you're often retrofitting them in. And the Ekko comes with the lithionics, plus a couple of others. So that's why I said they're everywhere, in that narrow space. And up til now I haven't found any equivalent to the Lithionics in energy density (aside from building your own).

But in any bigger RV space doesn't seem a huge concern, people even just go for 4+ battleborns which are very space inefficient. And I also follow a lot of van outfitters and they seem fine with including a big electric box either under the bed or over a wheel well, where again they're fine with using a bank of battle born or equivalents. So that's why I sort of contradicted myself and said there doesn't seem to be much demand.

Anyway, I stumbled across this post because I just heard about this battery and was looking for information on it. Didn't find much. I do not have the lithionics battery myself, too expensive.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

So I own a "B+" type RV, in which they are fairly popular because space is tight and you're often retrofitting them in. And the Ekko comes with the lithionics, plus a couple of others. So that's why I said they're everywhere, in that narrow space. And up til now I haven't found any equivalent to the Lithionics in energy density (aside from building your own).

But in any bigger RV space doesn't seem a huge concern, people even just go for 4+ battleborns which are very space inefficient. And I also follow a lot of van outfitters and they seem fine with including a big electric box either under the bed or over a wheel well, where again they're fine with using a bank of battle born or equivalents. So that's why I sort of contradicted myself and said there doesn't seem to be much demand.

Anyway, I stumbled across this post because I just heard about this battery and was looking for information on it. Didn't find much. I do not have the lithionics battery myself, too expensive.

Re the Royer batteries, I have a bit of a problem with companies that don’t post the price of their product(s).

 

[Sam Cho TX]

The cost per watt hour is not competitive so they are not very popular for most people.

Here is one:

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

www.sunfunkits.com

Another compact 300AH is the Victron:

Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Lithium Bluetooth Battery (BAT512130410)

The Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Battery has Bluetooth Built-in so that you can monitor cell voltage and temperature via the Victron Connect App. Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Batteries can be connected up to 8 cells in series. Lithium...

nomadicsupply.com

 

[Alkaline]

If you have the money, you can't beat these:

Recreational Vehicles | Lithionics Battery

lithionicsbattery.com

UL listed for crash tests, its the top tier battery for the 1%

 

[Rocksnsalt]

If you have the money, you can't beat these:

Recreational Vehicles | Lithionics Battery

lithionicsbattery.com

UL listed for crash tests, its the top tier battery for the 1%

Yes Lithionics and Victron are top tier.
The small size but high power of the subject batteries are what I find interesting, or questionable. If they are for real, good quality and dependability at a reasonable / competitive cost, then I like the trend. But I understand, some companies are not trying to be competitive, but make what they view as the best product.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

The cost per watt hour is not competitive so they are not very popular for most people.

Here is one:

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

www.sunfunkits.com

Another compact 300AH is the Victron:

Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Lithium Bluetooth Battery (BAT512130410)

The Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Battery has Bluetooth Built-in so that you can monitor cell voltage and temperature via the Victron Connect App. Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Batteries can be connected up to 8 cells in series. Lithium...

nomadicsupply.com

Nice, but notice

• Charge Operating Temperature:
  • 41°F to 122°F
  • 5°C to 50°C

 

[Alkaline]

Are you trying to charge the batteries near freezing? 41 is pretty cold.

 

[Sam Cho TX]

Nice, but notice

• Charge Operating Temperature:
  • 41°F to 122°F
  • 5°C to 50°C

That battery has a built in heaters, if the temps go to low it turns the heaters on to warm up the battery and then they will charge. Many of the Chinese batteries have the same thing, a switch over to heat it up and then allow charging.

But you can get the SFK battery with a heat switch and just turn it on and it will keep the battery around 70 degrees.

I have there kit version without heaters but I'm in Central Texas does not get very hot here so for me I did not need the heating. My kit is a 280AH version and so far it has worked flawlessly.

 

[Alkaline]

I just noticed royer is using a JBD bms just like the sfk.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

The cost per watt hour is not competitive so they are not very popular for most people.

Here is one:

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

Sun Fun Kits SFK-300HP 300AH 4.0 kWh SELF HEATING 13.6v Lithium Iron Phosphate Ready To Use Battery. Sunfunkits.com

www.sunfunkits.com

Another compact 300AH is the Victron:

Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Lithium Bluetooth Battery (BAT512130410)

The Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Battery has Bluetooth Built-in so that you can monitor cell voltage and temperature via the Victron Connect App. Victron Energy 300AH 12.8V Smart LifePO4 Bluetooth Lithium Batteries can be connected up to 8 cells in series. Lithium...

nomadicsupply.com

That SFK battery is interesting. I absolutely love that external temp control option. It appears continuous discharge rate is around 100a, does that seem a bit low to anyone else?

 

[Rocksnsalt]

Are you trying to charge the batteries near freezing? 41 is pretty cold.

Yes of course, why wouldn’t I?
The sun is out plenty of times when it’s 41F or lower. And 41 is a bit of a chill, but it’s well above most LifeP04 bms charge parameters of 32F. And hardly what many on this forum would call pretty cold.

If the sun is out or I’m going for a drive and the battery has “room” for charging of course I’d like some free energy, either from the alternator or solar. Especially for the 1%’er price point of Victron or Lithionics batteries.
But as was pointed out by @Sam Cho TX that particular battery has heaters.
Just seems like a lot of energy being used to warm, at a higher temp setting than is normally seen.
34 or 35F I understand as a safeguard, 41F is way beyond conservative.
Just my opinion, and I’m not claiming to be an expert by any stretch.

 

[Alkaline]

Don't go around Charing batteries when its this cold, you'll do more ham then good. Most electric cars don't start charging properly until they are sufficiently warm:

So yeah I would not charge them in the cold, 41 is not that far off from 32 and if you have the ability to warm them up I would as you would charge better.

The switch thing on the SFK seems nice, but its going to be draining the batteries keeping them around 70. I suppose if you have solar access then whatever you loose you get back. Interesting concept.

Battle born does something similar with there batteries with a wire: