48Vdc inverter (no charger) putting out 3500 watts at 120/240Vac 60hz Am I trying to reinvent the wheel?

[WYtreasure]

It seems as though everyone wants to include a charger with a 120/240v inverter.
Isn't this a typical US electrical setup? All 50 states I've been to have homes with 120 & 240 vac, and appliances to match those voltages.
The fridge wants 120 vac & the dryer wants 240 vac.

I think I want to stick with the MidNite Classic 150 which I intend to charge my 48 volts of LiFePo4 batteries.

Any leads to a:
" 48Vdc inverter (without charger) that will put out a constant 3500 watts at 120/240Vac 60hz "
would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[HighTechLab]

The reason is because when you get into an inverter that is 3000+ watts, they are transformer based, and to add the circuitry to make it a charger is very minimal (it uses the inverter in reverse as a synchronous rectifier). Why not buy an inverter/charger and just not use the charger, I imagine that the cost would be about the same as something that would do just inverting.

Just my $.02

 

[Samsonite801]

The reason is because when you get into an inverter that is 3000+ watts, they are transformer based, and to add the circuitry to make it a charger is very minimal (it uses the inverter in reverse as a synchronous rectifier). Why not buy an inverter/charger and just not use the charger, I imagine that the cost would be about the same as something that would do just inverting.

Just my $.02

Going along with what HighTechLab had said, this way you also have a spare charge controller option available in the case if your Classic 150 had a blowout or something. It's just more versatility available. Or even if you ever added more panels in later on or something. Or decided to use your 150 as a wind charger instead at some point, and wanted to use the AIO charger for solar panels instead. Those Midnite Classics have wind curves on them too... Just some food for thought is all.

 

[Bvillebob]

They're good for folks like me. I have several Classics charging two battery banks connected to Samlex EVO inverters, which have built in chargers. They're set so that if the batteries get to 50 per cent charge they kick on for an hour and put 50 amp hours into them, then turn off. Where I live we often have a week or two without significant sun in the winter and it's nice knowing that if the batteries get low they'll automatically get boosted. The Samlex has a separate generator input where my generator is connected, so if the grid goes down I have the option of chaging with the generator.

When building an inverter, much of the circuitry can be used in the other direction to make a charger, it adds litle to the cost.

 

[WYtreasure]

The reason is because when you get into an inverter that is 3000+ watts, they are transformer based, and to add the circuitry to make it a charger is very minimal (it uses the inverter in reverse as a synchronous rectifier). Why not buy an inverter/charger and just not use the charger, I imagine that the cost would be about the same as something that would do just inverting.

Just my $.02

Thanks for that and I'll give you a dime for your time.

 

[WYtreasure]

Going along with what HighTechLab had said, this way you also have a spare charge controller option available in the case if your Classic 150 had a blowout or something. It's just more versatility available. Or even if you ever added more panels in later on or something. Or decided to use your 150 as a wind charger instead at some point, and wanted to use the AIO charger for solar panels instead. Those Midnite Classics have wind curves on them too... Just some food for thought is all.

I like that idea too.
I do plan on adding wind at some point. Currently the wind is blowing 30 Gusting to 40+.

 

[WYtreasure]

They're good for folks like me. I have several Classics charging two battery banks connected to Samlex EVO inverters, which have built in chargers. They're set so that if the batteries get to 50 per cent charge they kick on for an hour and put 50 amp hours into them, then turn off. Where I live we often have a week or two without significant sun in the winter and it's nice knowing that if the batteries get low they'll automatically get boosted. The Samlex has a separate generator input where my generator is connected, so if the grid goes down I have the option of chaging with the generator.

When building an inverter, much of the circuitry can be used in the other direction to make a charger, it adds litle to the cost.

I looked at Samlex and if they sell a 48 vdc in with 120 & 240 vac out, I am missing it.

I think you're referring to the boost feature within the Classic and yep, I like that feature too.

 

[WYtreasure]

It's like when I am running through the house screaming where is it? As soon as I ask, I find it.


So at:

48V 3000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter

www.inverter.com

I find this:
High efficiency 48 volt 3kW pure sine power inverter price is low, with remote control function, 48V DC to AC 230V/240V/220V/110V/120V. It can be used in microwave ovens, air conditioners, computers and other household equipment.

But what does this mean?

AC Output Voltage

1- Phase (L + N, G)= 110V, 230V ±5% Do Not provide split phase configuration (L1, L2 + N, G)

And I can't find the emoticon for "Pulling my hair out"

 

[HighTechLab]

It's like when I am running through the house screaming where is it? As soon as I ask, I find it.


So at:

48V 3000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter

www.inverter.com

I find this:
High efficiency 48 volt 3kW pure sine power inverter price is low, with remote control function, 48V DC to AC 230V/240V/220V/110V/120V. It can be used in microwave ovens, air conditioners, computers and other household equipment.

But what does this mean?

AC Output Voltage

1- Phase (L + N, G)= 110V, 230V ±5% Do Not provide split phase configuration (L1, L2 + N, G)

And I can't find the emoticon for "Pulling my hair out"

This means that it can output 120v with relation to neutral, and 230v with relation to neutral, but this is NOT split phase 120/240v like we have in the USA. On the 230v model, the neutral is at one end, not in the middle.

 

[WYtreasure]

This means that it can output 120v with relation to neutral, and 230v with relation to neutral, but this is NOT split phase 120/240v like we have in the USA. On the 230v model, the neutral is at one end, not in the middle.

So I think you said I can NOT run wires from the inverter 240 output into a small breaker panel and connect a USA 240vac breaker which wants 2 separate circuits of 120 to achieve the desired 240 vac.

Sounds like the product will not do the job and is designed for use in some other country where 220, 230 or 240 is the norm.

 

[Dzl]

The reason is because when you get into an inverter that is 3000+ watts, they are transformer based, and to add the circuitry to make it a charger is very minimal (it uses the inverter in reverse as a synchronous rectifier). Why not buy an inverter/charger and just not use the charger, I imagine that the cost would be about the same as something that would do just inverting.

Just my $.02

If Victron's prices are any indication (the only company I know that makes a very comparable inverter-charger (Multiplus) and inverter-only (Phoenix)), the difference in cost is about only $70, which works out to a cost savings of only 5.5% if you forego the charger. (this is not split phase BTW, but I suspect the principle is the same).

 

[WYtreasure]

If Victron's prices are any indication (the only company I know that makes a very comparable inverter-charger (Multiplus) and inverter-only (Phoenix)), the difference in cost is about only $70, which works out to a cost savings of only 5.5% if you forego the charger. (this is not split phase BTW, but I suspect the principle is the same).

Does this look like an appropriate product?

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 48Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/ 240Vac Split Phase Output​

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 48Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/ 240Vac Split Phase Output

The AIMS 4000 Watt, 48 Volt DC to 120/240 Volt AC pure sine wave inverter charger with built-in transfer switch and battery charger is your solution for backup or off grid power solutions. This inverter is split-phase and will output 110/120 or 220/230/240Vac, and operates at 50 or 60Hz via the...

www.aimscorp.net

I can't tell if it will power 120 & 240 simultaneously though.

Why don't I buy a 48vdc to 120vac AND a 48vdc to 240vac inverter. Buying 2 inverters seems silly to me but if it suits my needs, WYnot?

 

[HighTechLab]

Does this look like an appropriate product?

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 48Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/ 240Vac Split Phase Output​

4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 48Vdc / 240Vac Input & 120/ 240Vac Split Phase Output

The AIMS 4000 Watt, 48 Volt DC to 120/240 Volt AC pure sine wave inverter charger with built-in transfer switch and battery charger is your solution for backup or off grid power solutions. This inverter is split-phase and will output 110/120 or 220/230/240Vac, and operates at 50 or 60Hz via the...

www.aimscorp.net

I can't tell if it will power 120 & 240 simultaneously though.

Why don't I buy a 48vdc to 120vac AND a 48vdc to 240vac inverter. Buying 2 inverters seems silly to me but if it suits my needs, WYnot?

This product will indeed output 120/240v split phase, as seen in the USA power system. The 240v input means that in order to get the battery charger to work, you must supply it 240v power.

Shameless plug: I own a ecommerce site, www.currentconnected.com, and offer the unit you linked, at the same price. If you have interest in supporting our small business at no extra cost to you, then feel free to order through us here:

AIMS Pure Sine Wave Inverter Chargers | 12v-48v | 1000w-12000w | Non-UL – Current Connected

www.currentconnected.com

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Why don't I buy a 48vdc to 120vac AND a 48vdc to 240vac inverter. Buying 2 inverters seems silly to me but if it suits my needs, WYnot

Because in most cases that 240 won’t be the 240 split phase you want if I am not mistaken. Split-phase, 3-phase are not in my wheelhouse, however.

 

[WYtreasure]

New day, new brain for me.
Starting to find what I am looking for thanks to helpful input.

"split phase" seems to be the key phrase I was missing.

PRODUCT: Inverter, 3500 watts minimum, 48 vdc input, 120 and 240 "split phase" vac output.

Found these in case anyone wants the info.

4000W DC 48V Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Inverter With Charger UL1741 Standard

Sungoldpower 4000W DC 48V Split Phase Puresine Wave Inverter Charger. Hightlight: This Pure Sine Wave Inverter for battery is a combination of an 48 volt inverter, battery charger and AC auto-transfer switch.Low frequency,low Idle Current,remote control. The split-phase 4000 watts inverter...

sungoldpower.com

$935.00

Magnum MS4448PAE 4400W 48V Pure Sine Inverter/Charger | DonRowe.com

The Magnum Energy MS4448PAE, 4400 Watt, 48 Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger with 60 Amp Charger provides 120 and 240 volts output in one unit, can be parallel stacked, is easy-to-use, and best of all, is cost effective

www.donrowe.com

Sale Price: $1,799.99
NOT in stock

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Hopefully some Sungold users will post up.
Some people have good experience with them.

For that level of equipment it does say it is a low frequency inverter AND it has the transfer disconnect switch integral which are two things I’d look for at that service level.
I’m no expert on panel-feed equipment but to my limited knowledge that seems like it would function for your purpose.
I’m odd; while I can’t always afford it when I buy more ‘budget’ equipment I tend to buy two so I have a backup on hand. Some would just say buy the better stuff but I feel better with a backup and often you can get two price-point items for about the same as nice stuff
(Like if you had a magnum that died? Apparently getting a replacement quick wouldn’t happen being they’re out of stock… Although many do consider the Magnum product to be top shelf if lightning or whatever killed it it won’t matter how good it is if you can’t replace it)

 

[Tecnodave]

I do have an earlier model of that MagnaSine and I do have a MidNite SPD surge protector on its output....I do live in a “Sky Spark zone”

Any inverter needs a “Sky Spark Arrestor” Midnight SPD 300 is one of the best, I also have a Midnight SPD 150 on each of my combiners.

Lightning jumps 10 feet for every Million volts.....That is a lot of voltage for any transistorized device

 

[Dzl]

Hopefully some Sungold users will post up.
Some people have good experience with them.

I would be interested to hear more first hand experiences as well. These inverter/chargers have been on my radar for some time, but don't seem to get a lot of attention here or on youtube compared with other options.

Sungoldpower is a mixed bag from what I've read.
It does seem to be one of the better budget values for a low frequency inverter, particularly if you limit your choices to split phase inverters. Its highly plausible that its coming out of the same factory as Sigineer, AIMS, one of the models Renogy sold, and one of the models ECPC sold, and maybe Yiyen. And its a bit cheaper than these other brands, interpret that as you will. There are threads on this forum where that is discussed in greater detail. Many people believe its probable that Sigineer is the manufacturer of all these rebrands, but I can't say that with any certainty.

The more common criticisms I've heard are QA/QC issues. Not sure how widespread or representative those cases are. When trying to pinch pennies QA/QC and customer support tend to be among the first victims. Sometimes that tradeoff is worth it, depends on your priorities. I would also look into their documentation, and reports about their customer service before purchasing.

Also note, a small group of fake accounts were recently banned from the forum that were engaged in deceptive marketing/trying to generate interest in Sungoldpower by posing as individual satisfied customers, it was actually working until they got too blatant and were discovered and linked to eachother, upon review the misrepresentation went back over a year, but ramped up recently. Sungoldpower was the only brand they promoted. This may or may not be a somewhat common practice, I know fake Amazon reviews are or were common, but it does not reflect well on the company at all. It also underscores the importance of being skeptical and reporting any posts that don't smell right/feel disingenuous to put them on the moderator's radar.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Hopefully some Sungold users will post up.
Some people have good experience with them.

For that level of equipment it does say it is a low frequency inverter AND it has the transfer disconnect switch integral which are two things I’d look for at that service level.
I’m no expert on panel-feed equipment but to my limited knowledge that seems like it would function for your purpose.
I’m odd; while I can’t always afford it when I buy more ‘budget’ equipment I tend to buy two so I have a backup on hand. Some would just say buy the better stuff but I feel better with a backup and often you can get two price-point items for about the same as nice stuff
(Like if you had a magnum that died? Apparently getting a replacement quick wouldn’t happen being they’re out of stock… Although many do consider the Magnum product to be top shelf if lightning or whatever killed it it won’t matter how good it is if you can’t replace it)

My neighbors Magnum died over a month ago and he still can’t find a replacement. He’s been running his house of a eu2000 ever since. After his kicked the bucket I bought a spare. I’m running my place of a Reliable Power Inverter brand.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

New day, new brain for me.
Starting to find what I am looking for thanks to helpful input.

"split phase" seems to be the key phrase I was missing.

PRODUCT: Inverter, 3500 watts minimum, 48 vdc input, 120 and 240 "split phase" vac output.

Found these in case anyone wants the info.

4000W DC 48V Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Inverter With Charger UL1741 Standard

Sungoldpower 4000W DC 48V Split Phase Puresine Wave Inverter Charger. Hightlight: This Pure Sine Wave Inverter for battery is a combination of an 48 volt inverter, battery charger and AC auto-transfer switch.Low frequency,low Idle Current,remote control. The split-phase 4000 watts inverter...

sungoldpower.com

$935.00

Magnum MS4448PAE 4400W 48V Pure Sine Inverter/Charger | DonRowe.com

The Magnum Energy MS4448PAE, 4400 Watt, 48 Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger with 60 Amp Charger provides 120 and 240 volts output in one unit, can be parallel stacked, is easy-to-use, and best of all, is cost effective

www.donrowe.com

Sale Price: $1,799.99
NOT in stock

I ordered the same Magnum a little over a month ago. They had it in stock but the panels are bobbing around at sea. They are waiting to ship all at once.