6000 xp efficiency

[Kent86]

I've been running my 6000xp for about 4 months now and I always notice the gap between the solar input, charge received by the battery and load. I'm trying to figure out if the efficiency is where it should be on this inverter.

For example-
In this screen shot there is 3768 watts coming from PV and a load of 2935 watts. After subtracting load from PV there are a remaining 833 watts that should be charging the battery but only 416 watts are making it there, which is a loss of 417 watts.

417 watts lost is about an 11% loss of the 3768 PV input or meaning the PV circuit is 89% efficient. Is my math correct? How should the efficiency measure out on these inverters?

 

[MaikaiLife]

I’m not exactly sure on this but, one possible explanation is that what you’re seeing is the energy potential from the solar panels.

Your potential could be higher than your needs, which often happens and will cause the MPPT to reduce the input energy it takes and possibly still showing the potential available versus the amount that is actually being consumed in total by the outputs of the inverter.

 

[marionw]

What batteries are you using and are you using battery BMS to Inverter (closed loop) communications?

 

[Kent86]

I have four eg4 lifepower with closed loop communication

 

[marionw]

It is possible the "Master" BMS/Battery is reporting an SOC of 100% and the inverter then stops charging the batteries.

Use the BMS_Test software/tool provided by EG4 to monitor each battery to determine if the battery SOC is accurate. You may have to temporarily disconnect the BMS cable which will (usually) cause the inverter to revert to manually entered charge parameters thus allowing you to control the charge. Once cells start to reach 3.45 volts the BMS will start balancing and the SOC will reset to 100%.

You may have a battery where cells are way out of whack and one cell charges to 3.60 volts (often called a runner) which trips Cell Over Voltage Protection (OVP) resulting in the BMS stopping further charge of the battery. By lowering the Bulk and Float (or whatever your inverter calls them) charge voltages you may be able to prevent OVP which will allow the other cells to catch up. Trial and error and patience.

 

[MaikaiLife]

I've been running my 6000xp for about 4 months now and I always notice the gap between the solar input, charge received by the battery and load. I'm trying to figure out if the efficiency is where it should be on this inverter.

For example-
In this screen shot there is 3768 watts coming from PV and a load of 2935 watts. After subtracting load from PV there are a remaining 833 watts that should be charging the battery but only 416 watts are making it there, which is a loss of 417 watts.

417 watts lost is about an 11% loss of the 3768 PV input or meaning the PV circuit is 89% efficient. Is my math correct? How should the efficiency measure out on these inverters?

I would see if you can get one of the EG4 people on here like @EG4_Jared to comment on this and help explain why the sum of the outputs doesn’t match the PV input closer?

 

[Burrito5000]

Look at the spec sheet for the inverter, it lists the efficiencies.
You lose 1% on PV, then 7% to charge the batteries, then another 7% to discharge.

6000XP Spec Sheet

 

[Burrito5000]

Looking at your numbers, not sure what's going on.
You should only be losing 38W from the MPPT and 56W from the charger.

Something else is going on here beyond listed inverter efficiency losses. It is possibly battery related, or something in the settings. Don't know if those batteries have active or passive balancing but some of the power could be going towards balancing. But you would think it would still be tallied on the display.

 

[hwy17]

One problem with summing like this is the different figures might have different refresh rates and sampling periods so a snapshot of them might catch them out of sync with each other under dynamic loads. If the load is so steady that they all stay around the same number continuously though then you'll get less of this effect.

Many times a day I could capture the power flow graph on my schneider showing something non sensical.

 

[MaikaiLife]

One problem with summing like this is the different figures might have different refresh rates and sampling periods so a snapshot of them might catch them out of sync with each other under dynamic loads. If the load is so steady that they all stay around the same number continuously though then you'll get less of this effect.

Many times a day I could capture the power flow graph on my schneider showing something non sensical.

This is another plausible explanation. However, suggesting that variations in sampling periods and inverters provide nonsensical data implies there is no need to seek a definitive answer.

These inverters should be able to demonstrate their claimed specifications, much like how a vehicle must achieve mileage close to the EPA rating or a phone battery should approximate the manufacturer’s estimate.

The inverters are programmed by developers who should be able to explain the display or data outputs. This would allow buyers to verify that the equipment they purchased meets the manufacturer’s specifications.

What if @Kent86 numbers are accurate, it suggests his unit isn’t meeting the manufacturer’s specifications. This could mean it should be replaced under warranty or, at the very least, require engineers to address potential issues.

@EG4_Eric @EG4_Jared @EG4_Jarrett
I absolutely want to know how to interpret the data for basic validation to ensure the unit operates near its manufacturer-specified efficiency.

I frequently receive questions from clients about why their inverter displays show data that can't be explained. I'm tired of jokingly saying "these things are unknowable" to excuse my own difficulty in making sense of the information these multi-thousand-dollar devices provide.

How are the input and output numbers of the inverter generated? What are the times and collection intervals? If the display or data tracking isn’t designed to allow buyers to validate that their equipment meets specifications, how can anyone trust the spec sheet when there’s no straightforward way to verify these specs with the device’s data?

I would very much like to better understand at a minimum the basics in how the EG4 inverters generate their data on the display or in the reporting portals and i appreciate any insight.

.

 

[hwy17]

variations in sampling periods and inverters provide nonsensical data implies there is no need to seek a definitive answer

That's what I call Zen And The Art of Solar System Design.

Alternatively, Who's Electron Is It Anyway? Where the watts are made up and the amps don't matter.

 

[robbob2112]

This is another plausible explanation. However, suggesting that variations in sampling periods and inverters provide nonsensical data implies there is no need to seek a definitive answer.

These inverters should be able to demonstrate their claimed specifications, much like how a vehicle must achieve mileage close to the EPA rating or a phone battery should approximate the manufacturer’s estimate.

The inverters are programmed by developers who should be able to explain the display or data outputs. This would allow buyers to verify that the equipment they purchased meets the manufacturer’s specifications.

What if @Kent86 numbers are accurate, it suggests his unit isn’t meeting the manufacturer’s specifications. This could mean it should be replaced under warranty or, at the very least, require engineers to address potential issues.

@EG4_Eric @EG4_Jared @EG4_Jarrett
I absolutely want to know how to interpret the data for basic validation to ensure the unit operates near its manufacturer-specified efficiency.

I frequently receive questions from clients about why their inverter displays show data that can't be explained. I'm tired of jokingly saying "these things are unknowable" to excuse my own difficulty in making sense of the information these multi-thousand-dollar devices provide.

How are the input and output numbers of the inverter generated? What are the times and collection intervals? If the display or data tracking isn’t designed to allow buyers to validate that their equipment meets specifications, how can anyone trust the spec sheet when there’s no straightforward way to verify these specs with the device’s data?

I would very much like to better understand at a minimum the basics in how the EG4 inverters generate their data on the display or in the reporting portals and i appreciate any insight.

.

I very much agree - there should be a datasheet or manual chapter that covers sample rates, limits, methods at a high level at the least. Working in data analysis I know data collection methods are incredibly important in understanding what the data means.

And ideally a syslog stream or snmp implementation that can be queried periodically to allow a remote source to be used to chart things.

 

[Kent86]

Look at the spec sheet for the inverter, it lists the efficiencies.
You lose 1% on PV, then 7% to charge the batteries, then another 7% to discharge.

6000XP Spec Sheet

Thanks for posting the spec sheet, that's helpful. Even though I'm losing 1% from PV and another 7% from battery charge it still doesn't add up