Building arrays in heavy woods

[42OhmsPA]

This is also how I do it. I built a passive solar off-grid house in the woods on my 30+ acres, renting my house by the road.

1400sqft, south facing. The south wall is all floor to ceiling windows with a 3' roof overhang. This keeps the sun out in the summer but allows it to penetrate deeply in winter.

I didn't want to live the same as before. I wanted simple, quiet independence and to feel like I'm on vacation in Costa Rica every day. (Live in the hot, humid southeast)

I spent a lot of time with the solar audit in the beginning to see exactly how much power I needed and the equipment required to provide it.

I have a standard size fridge, chest freezer, mini split, tv, starlink, dishwasher, instant pot, microwave, toaster, washer and clothes line. OD propane HW, propane stove. 2 5lb tanks a month.

Use about 8kwh a day. 25kwh lifepo4, 5.5kw pv, 48v 3kva inverter. Running for almost a year now, have not needed the generator yet.

I do pay attention to what the system is doing, but a year has shown me that isn't necessary. We use whatever we want when we want.

Your comment about in the woods caught my attention... How far into the woods are you and what is your southern exposure like?

I walked 12 acres after work today. The location is pretty awesome but I feel like I'd have to clear cut a massive section to get the exposure I'd need for anything productive in December and January. I can't make it through now with ~11KW of panels, ~33KWh of battery and average usage ~13KWh/day in the dark months.

Sorry for the slight thread jack @djparnell
There is already a pile of great info in this thread, I can't offer any other advice besides more panels and batteries never hurt.

Edit - reporting post to be moved to its own thread.

 

[OffGridForGood]

wow,
well I would start with a portable bandsaw mill and some nice drying sheds...but that is me !

 

[HalfBaked]

Your comment about in the woods caught my attention... How far into the woods are you and what is your southern exposure like?

I walked 12 acres after work today. The location is pretty awesome but I feel like I'd have to clear cut a massive section to get the exposure I'd need for anything productive in December and January. I can't make it through now with ~11KW of panels, ~33KWh of battery and average usage ~13KWh/day in the dark months.

Sorry for the slight thread jack @djparnell
There is already a pile of great info in this thread, I can't offer any other advice besides more panels and batteries never hurt.

Edit - reporting post to be moved to its own thread.

Sorry, just saw this. Even though I did reply over PM, I'll copy and paste my reply here as well in case it can help someone else:

My house is 1500ft from the road, my land is 90% heavy deciduous woods. The clearing I built in is roughly 100' wide by 150' long.
I think this works for me because I use 3 separate arrays, S, E, W. Each array is located at the treeline, facing the opening.

As far as my southern exposure is 100' oak trees about 150' from my S. array. I think the reason this works for me in the winter is because the land slopes down to the south so when the trees drop leaves, I get a lot of sun. I would say close to the same as summer. So maybe find a southern
slope.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thanks to the mods for moving this.

Thanks to everyone for the info and ideas.
@HalfBaked thank you for the info and encouragement.

I spent some time on suncalc, it's absolutely doable.

My offer is in, hoping to hear something Monday.

There is another chunk with 10 acres I won't even look at because it's down the N side of a mountain, it's a great location otherwise.

 

[Rednecktek]

When I put up my dozen panels at the camp I had to drop 17 trees and pull a couple dozen 8-footers-and-smaller just to get enough for a couple hours of sun. It got to the point where dropping trees didn't compensate for the hill so I stopped there. You'll be spending a LOT of time with a chainsaw.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Exciting to see if you get the property.
Will be interesting to see you develop it.

You'll be spending a LOT of time with a chainsaw.

But that is all part of the "fun" right!?
All those nice hardwood trees, makes me think of beautiful sawn lumber air dried in some sheds, slabs and tops processed into enough firewood to last out the decade...sharpening the saw right now.

 

[HalfBaked]

I've also heard you can skip the mill and just peel and treat whole logs. They are 3-4x stronger than the largest dimensional lumber you can cut from one. Options!

 

[OffGridForGood]

I've also heard you can skip the mill and just peel and treat whole logs. They are 3-4x stronger than the largest dimensional lumber you can cut from one. Options!
View attachment 222384

yeah, but look again at his pictures - pretty big logs! lol.
Yeah the original meaning of a 'pole-barn' was actually using poles.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I've also heard you can skip the mill and just peel and treat whole logs. They are 3-4x stronger than the largest dimensional lumber you can cut from one. Options!
View attachment 222384

That's so awesome. I wouldn't ever want to leave.

Do you have to do any maintenance?

 

[Brucey]

When I put up my dozen panels at the camp I had to drop 17 trees and pull a couple dozen 8-footers-and-smaller just to get enough for a couple hours of sun. It got to the point where dropping trees didn't compensate for the hill so I stopped there. You'll be spending a LOT of time with a chainsaw.

For the hill you need to switch from chainsaw to dozer

 

[HalfBaked]

That's so awesome. I wouldn't ever want to leave.

Do you have to do any maintenance?

Maintenance? What's that?
No actually I built with age/retirement in mind. The only chores are once a year pick the baby trees trying to grow on the roof and evict the birds trying to nest in the eaves.

 

[Mattb4]

I live in a heavily wooded area. The saving grace (for solar) is it slopes towards the South. I do get 2 months around the Solstices (Winter and Summer a month each.) that production is reduced due to the sun being too low in the sky in Winter and too high in the sky in Summer. Providing for those periods where average production is 3 hours (gets about to 2.5 hours at the solstice) from the panels means a higher number of panels. The other 10 months are more then needed production in that I hunt for ways to take advantage of it.

I also run 3 arrays with their own pointing so as to take advantage of different times of the day.

You will likely end up over a period of a couple of years adjusting your setup and finding trees needing removal. One thing you did not mention is if you have grid power available on the new property. This will factor into your setup if you use GAB (grid as backup).

 

[42OhmsPA]

There is a grid connection in the area, I have no intention to bring it onto the property.

 

[Mattb4]

There is a grid connection in the area, I have no intention to bring it onto the property.

No training wheels? I must admit if the solar products of today were available 26 years ago when I bought my property I likely would have not gone to the money and effort to have electricity run to it. Back then when I was young(er) the idea of being totally self sufficient really appealed to me.

It is a golden age for Off grid DIY solar.

 

[42OhmsPA]

No training wheels? I must admit if the solar products of today were available 26 years ago when I bought my property I likely would have not gone to the money and effort to have electricity run to it. Back then when I was young(er) the idea of being totally self sufficient really appealed to me.

It is a golden age for Off grid DIY solar.

December and January of this past year were great training wheels.
I thought I had it figured out adding another array and battery pack after seeing how crappy the winter of 22-23 was, that was a slap in the face from mother nature.

I've debated disconnecting service at my current house many times, it would be cheaper to run the generator and charge for those few crappy months than pay the monthly fees.

I figure the money I save on a grid hookup at may next property will easily cover a quality diesel genset and a handful of power rectifiers for optimal DC charging.

I had already planned to spread arrays multiple directions, hearing others are doing it and it's working is extra reassurance.

I'm not getting my hopes up since I've been trying to find land for years now, but this spot would be great. I'm getting really tired of hearing vehicles go up and down the state road at the edge of my current property, I hope it works out.

 

[dopeassjackson]

Sell the standing timber and collect the check.

Milling lumber for dimentional lumber is a poor man's game when you can buy rough cut green wood for so cheap. You will need to cut a whole house full of wood (including the sheet goods) to break even on buying a sawmill...that dosnt include your time, fuel or the machine to move all that wood.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Sell the standing timber and collect the check.

Milling lumber for dimentional lumber is a poor man's game when you can buy rough cut green wood for so cheap. You will need to cut a whole house full of wood (including the sheet goods) to break even on buying a sawmill...that dosnt include your time, fuel or the machine to move all that wood.

Depends on your local market.
My saw paid for itself cutting softwood rough-cut lumber that was used right off the saw to build crates for equipment and materials to ship to the Canadian Arctic - over a period of years. The mining co paid us a set $$ per crate based on standard sizes. Was a good deal for us.

Then I got older, so the saw is just for around the homestead, but very handy: last weekend I cut a couple dozon trees to make room for the new barn.
Base trunk sections were measured and cut for the lengths needed for a new Goat pen, tree-log-sawmill-boards-goat pen all in a few days. No trip to the local lumber yard, (30 minute drive away) and no concerns about getting enough material or too much - just toss another log on the mill. lol.

A buddy of mine liked the sawmill idea so he got a deal to cut hardwood shipping blocks for a steel fabrication shop in his area - tells me his set up was paid off in two years on that contract alone. He is retired so didn't need to 'make a living' off the saw, he just wanted to make enough to pay for it.

My favourite deal is to cut other people's logs for them, half the finished product is mine, half is theirs - no money changes hands, tax man can stay home. LOL. A few sheds full of nice air dried hardwood is nice for winter furniture projects, if you like to do that kinda stuff.

 

[42OhmsPA]

The search continues, I'll try and find out how much above asking it sold for....
I should have offered more.

Keep up the great discussion.

 

[Mattb4]

The search continues, I'll try and find out how much above asking it sold for....
I should have offered more.

Keep up the great discussion.

My sympathies. Here is rural Arkansas you could have offered less than asking and likely have bought the property. Only problem is the lack of jobs, long distance to get supplies, not much infrastructure, annoying insects and wildlife, strange and unusual neighbors and hot humid Summers. But it is not all good so you need to allow for it.

 

[robbob2112]

Depends on your local market.
My saw paid for itself cutting softwood rough-cut lumber that was used right off the saw to build crates for equipment and materials to ship to the Canadian Arctic - over a period of years. The mining co paid us a set $$ per crate based on standard sizes. Was a good deal for us.

Then I got older, so the saw is just for around the homestead, but very handy: last weekend I cut a couple dozon trees to make room for the new barn.
Base trunk sections were measured and cut for the lengths needed for a new Goat pen, tree-log-sawmill-boards-goat pen all in a few days. No trip to the local lumber yard, (30 minute drive away) and no concerns about getting enough material or too much - just toss another log on the mill. lol.

A buddy of mine liked the sawmill idea so he got a deal to cut hardwood shipping blocks for a steel fabrication shop in his area - tells me his set up was paid off in two years on that contract alone. He is retired so didn't need to 'make a living' off the saw, he just wanted to make enough to pay for it.

My favourite deal is to cut other people's logs for them, half the finished product is mine, half is theirs - no money changes hands, tax man can stay home. LOL. A few sheds full of nice air dried hardwood is nice for winter furniture projects, if you like to do that kinda stuff.

OH NO!! you did it now, the IRS (Infernal Revenue Service) is coming after you - goods changed hands and you didn't claim the value of the goods coming to you nor did you 1099 the person suppling the wood for the value of cutting the wood. j/k but only partly, that is how the IRS sees things

Cheaper to charge $1 and buy the other half of the wood for $1

 

[OffGridForGood]

OH NO!! you did it now, the IRS (Infernal Revenue Service) is coming after you - goods changed hands and you didn't claim the value of the goods coming to you nor did you 1099 the person suppling the wood for the value of cutting the wood. j/k but only partly, that is how the IRS sees things

Cheaper to charge $1 and buy the other half of the wood for $1

Yeah, instead of IRS we have the
Gestopo ops, I mean Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) but they can't do much if you don't charge anything.

When I plow out my East neighbour in the winter she makes us a pie - no tax on that either LOL.
I feel the government would tax the air we breathe if they could find a way to meter it. - Don't give them any ideas!!

 

[dopeassjackson]

My saw paid for itself cutting softwood rough-cut lumber that was used right off the saw to build crates for equipment and materials to ship to the Canadian Arctic - over a period of years. The mining co paid us a set $$ per crate based on standard sizes. Was a good deal for us.

Your selling a product and not lumber.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Your selling a product and not lumber.

Yup!
Cutting standard pieces into standard lenths per a cutting list, and shooting nails through them.
I set up my (then teen-aged) son and two of his friends with a system in one end of the shop for cutting and assembly. Over a few years they built 116 crates and earned some money doing it.
No sense 'giving away the material' for cheap if you can figure out how to build a finished product for greater return.