Can off-grid UL inverter be used in grid-tied?

[diWhy]

I wasn't sure how to best write my title so I'll explain.
I have this inverter on hand; SunGoldPower SPH8K48SP, 8000W DC 48V UL1741 Pure Sine Wave Solar Inverter.

8KW 48V Split Phase Solar Inverter

Find the ideal 8KW 48V Split Phase Solar Inverter online from SunGoldPower. Experience superior quality and performance for your solar energy system.

sungoldpower.com

It states that it is UL1741 certified but for off-grid only yet it also has grid-tied features to prevent back-feeding into the grid during a power outage.
This is confusing. Why would it be off-grid only rated or does it mean maybe they are still working on grid-tied certification also? I'll contact them.

Do different states have different requirements? For example, I'm in Arizona and already have a grid-tied system but most of the inverters are dead so I wanted to replace those with an all in one since I was grandfathered into that rating system for generating power.

During a power failure, grid-tied inverters simply stop putting power out so the safety is done at the inverter level.
Now, I share in image showing how my current certified setup looks. My intention was to connect the inverter AC to the same panel as the strings are tied to.

The thing is, I'm not sure if the meter next to the string inputs can also prevent power from getting back to the grid during an outage or perhaps there is something in the locked box that is also doing that? I wasn't watching when they did the final connecting.

Anyhow, my question is, is it possible to still use this inverter or do I have to find one that is grid-tied certified and if so, what would that UL number be?

Thank you.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Straight UL1741 (no SA or SB addendums) doesn't meet grid interaction requirements; however, grid may be connected to the AC input of the unit for grid backup purposes. The unit does not have the ability to backfeed to the grid, and it has features that actually prevent it, or it wouldn't meet UL1741.

 

[timselectric]

"Can off-grid UL inverter be used in grid-tied?"

No

 

[42OhmsPA]

Straight UL1741 (no SA or SB addendums) doesn't meet grid interaction requirements; however, grid may be connected to the AC input of the unit for grid backup purposes. The unit does not have the ability to backfeed to the grid, and it has features that actually prevent it, or it wouldn't meet UL1741.

It actually does have the ability to back feed if you enable Setting 34.

I've never had an issue with my SRNE (the OEM) but I've never enabled that setting and my grid breaker is open as much as possible.

 

[timselectric]

So, it's a hybrid AIO and not an off grid AIO.

"Can off-grid UL inverter be used in grid-tied?"

No

Wrong question gets the Wrong answer.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

It actually does have the ability to back feed if you enable Setting 34.

I've never had an issue with my SRNE (the OEM) but I've never enabled that setting and my grid breaker is open as much as possible.

Respectfully disagree. From the linked ad:



Additionally, my cheap-assed SNRE cloned PowMr has the "feedback" setting with no UL certification of any kind. Pretty sure it's just a standard menu item, and has no actual function on the unit. Even if it does, it's 1000% not legal to operate it in a grid-tie capacity.

 

[timselectric]

Legal shmegal

 

[SparkyJJO]

Legal smegal

You misspelled my name, Smeagol it is!.
. .

 

[Brett V]

Looks like a can vs should dilemma...

 

[42OhmsPA]

So, it's a hybrid AIO and not an off grid AIO.

I guess, according to manual it only works like that in utility first priority.

Respectfully disagree. From the linked ad:

View attachment 220153

Isn't that diagram showing power flowing back to the grid? Ahh now I see what you put the box around.

Additionally, my cheap-assed SNRE cloned PowMr has the "feedback" setting with no UL certification of any kind. Pretty sure it's just a standard menu item, and has no actual function on the unit.

Have you had any issues with it?

Even if it does, it's 1000% not legal to operate it in a grid-tie capacity.

I completely agree. I wish I had an interconnect agreement so I could test my SRNE.

Looks like a can vs should dilemma...

Agreed.

 

[diWhy]

Thanks for all the replies. I have to read these a bit closer but I decided to send it back.
SunGoldPower tells me their SPH10K48SP is UL approved for grid tie and can also send energy to the grid.
Are they BS'ing me about this other model also?

I'm trying to find an all-in-one that's around the $1600 mark to remove my grid tie inverters while still taking advantage of being able to send excess energy to the grid. I won't have any batteries initially so it needs to run off solar with grid backup as solar energy goes down. I'll eventually add batteries. I have 42 panels and was looking for something with dual 20 to 40 amp input which provides some options on how I'll connect the panels.

I loved all of the features this machine seemed to have but I cannot trust this company as I cannot get any information from them.

 

[Solar Pro]

Thanks for all the replies. I have to read these a bit closer but I decided to send it back.
SunGoldPower tells me their SPH10K48SP is UL approved for grid tie and can also send energy to the grid.
Are they BS'ing me about this other model also?

I'm trying to find an all-in-one that's around the $1600 mark to remove my grid tie inverters while still taking advantage of being able to send excess energy to the grid. I won't have any batteries initially so it needs to run off solar with grid backup as solar energy goes down. I'll eventually add batteries. I have 42 panels and was looking for something with dual 20 to 40 amp input which provides some options on how I'll connect the panels.

I loved all of the features this machine seemed to have but I cannot trust this company as I cannot get any information from them.

So the listings work like this: UL1741 is legal to interconnect to the grid without batteries as long as you don't live in California, in which case it needs to be Rule 21 compliant and on the CEC approved equipment list. UL9540 is now required for all battery systems, whether backup or time-of-use offset. And that's not to be confused with UL9540a, which is a fire testing certification and not (in and of itself) sufficient for grid interconnection. UL9540 is a 'system standard' which means it includes a UL1741 inverter and charge controllers, and a UL1973 battery (which requires NEMA 3R enclosures and UL1642 cells) all listed together under 9540. If you're going to interconnect an inverter to the grid, it has to be UL1741. If you're going to install a battery (and pass electrical inspection OR interconnect to the grid) it has to be UL9540. These are the specific certificates you should look for when purchasing if you want to pull permits and/or interconnect.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thanks for all the replies. I have to read these a bit closer but I decided to send it back.
SunGoldPower tells me their SPH10K48SP is UL approved for grid tie and can also send energy to the grid.
Are they BS'ing me about this other model also?

I'm trying to find an all-in-one that's around the $1600 mark to remove my grid tie inverters while still taking advantage of being able to send excess energy to the grid. I won't have any batteries initially so it needs to run off solar with grid backup as solar energy goes down. I'll eventually add batteries. I have 42 panels and was looking for something with dual 20 to 40 amp input which provides some options on how I'll connect the panels.

I loved all of the features this machine seemed to have but I cannot trust this company as I cannot get any information from them.

To the best of my knowledge that's the SRNE 10KW. If it can be paralleled it's the ASP, if it can't it's the ASF.
SGP is not an OEM they relabel, mainly SRNE and Voltronic equipment from what I've seen.

I have 0 experience with the grid feedback option since I don't have an interconnect agreement.

I have over 5MWh through the ASF with minimal issues, 1 overload and 0 random shutdowns. Each MPPT is maxed out, one slightly over max current, the other slightly over paneled.
I have 2 ASPs hanging on the wall I need to finish wiring up, I'll be running them in parallel.

Since you already have an interconnect agreement I wouldn't be to worried, just be certain you don't export more than you are approved for.

Note that if you order the SRNE through Alibaba you should be able to save a good chunk of change and eliminate the middleman...
There are 2 threads I have, one on the ASF the other on the ASP and HESP, I'd check them out for more info.
I feel the HESP would be a better option for you.

 

[diWhy]

I have 10kw of solar panels which I can configure in different ways including using two or more smaller inverters if they can be connected in parallel. I also need to have the ac input and output at 240v as that is the panel this will be feeding. It's not going to feed the house but an equipment room and a few larger things around the building such as AC etc. It needs to have AC so that AC can automatically take over when there isn't enough solar and of course, feed back to the grid when there is extra energy, hence, hybrid.

I just want to get as much of that solar as I can since this system has never paid for itself to date.

 

[diWhy]

Does anyone know if by changing from grid tie inverters to a fully certified hybrid inverter would mean a change in my interconnect agreement with the utility? I'm trying to do this in a way that keeps my grandfathered agreement in place and I know if I have to re-certify this, they will take advantage of me.
I would not be changing anything past their setup, I would only be connecting into the breaker box that has my current strings connected.

 

[zanydroid]

Does anyone know if by changing from grid tie inverters to a fully certified hybrid inverter would mean a change in my interconnect agreement with the utility? I'm trying to do this in a way that keeps my grandfathered agreement in place and I know if I have to re-certify this, they will take advantage of me.

It all depends on your POCO / state regulations. What is your POCO? And you should probably create a thread with a short question asking about the grandfather rules specific to your state and POCO.

In California you can stay on NEM2

 

[diWhy]

The main problem I had at the time was trying to get enough information on what certifications the device would need to be allowed.
It was also a bit confusing to see off-grid inverters stating they could interconnect.

I've learned more since posting this and better understand. I also contacted the power company which has helped a lot. I was told the inverter must be in the CA list of approved devices, and that I only need to submit a three line drawing since the system is not changing much and will continue to be grandfathered in.

The hardest part of the search is all of the re-branded stuff where I've found countless posts from folks asking others if one make/model is the same as another. That's why I created this post to not only help myself but others who are going through what I am. I don't know how useful it will be but it's worth a shot with input.

I've got a few potential candidates but cannot find US sellers for most or they are over my budgets for this project.

 

[signjack]

I just sold 2 more 6.2 kw zumax hybrid off grid do it ypurself systems to 2 guys with cabins up in mountains. I use a Veveor 5kw step up/down ransformer to convert 230 60 htz vac to 120/240 split phase For now they can only afford 9 290 watt panels per sytem. Later they will get another 9 each. I need to order more from china lead time is 3 weeks. I only have a 3.2 and a 10kw left.