CA's new tax on solar

[hwy17]

Isn't forced buyers how the POCOs have operated for decades, basically regional monopolies like most all utilities ???

Yes and that's why their rates are controlled by the PUC. The same PUC that controls NEM.

If you don't see how a utility loses money on a NEM 1/2 customer then we're just not on the same page.

I get that we all feel screwed in California by the terrible utility mess that started in 1996 and ends in this dismal state of power today, and NEM was the way that people felt like they were finally getting a leg up on the system. But the truth is that leg up was at the expense of other customers, the money lost on NEM customers was made up for by higher rates, and by some estimates 10% of our rates already go towards covering these loss making NEM accounts. It was easy enough to bury this at <10% solar penetration but it's not sustainable when you have 10%+ of wealthy solar owners laughing while the rest of the customer base pays their bill for them. Exports aren't worth 25 cents, they're just not.

 

[solar8484]

No utility in California ever claimed they were losing money on solar cause they never have.

So you changed your mind? This is what you said earlier ... "NEM 2 was so good that the utilities lost money on solar customers and had to make it up by charging other customers more."

 

[hwy17]

So you changed your mind? This is what you said earlier ... "NEM 2 was so good that the utilities lost money on solar customers and had to make it up by charging other customers more."

I mean I guess you've caught me in a pedantic word trap here. But I think you can figure out what I mean: They lose money on solar customers so they charge other customers more to make up for it. So they don't really lose the money themselves on it, everyone else does via higher rates.

More accurately I guess I mean the utility loses money on NEM but they don't lose profit.

 

[teal95]

What other business could ever sustain itself buying a product for the same price it sells it for?

Except they aren't. They have a ton of service charges that should be covering their fixed costs.

If I'm buying gas for $5/gallon and selling it for $5/ gallon but I'm charging you $50 to drive up to the pump I'm still making money.

 

[hwy17]

They have a ton of service charges that should be covering their fixed costs.

Although the public has perceived NBC's to cover fixed costs, that has never been claimed in the ratemaking process. NBC's include PPP's and other ancillary charges but not transmission or distribution.

 

[timselectric]

That sounds like bad planning on the utilities.

 

[hwy17]

That sounds like bad planning on the utilities.

It was CPUC that specifically pushed for NEM that didn't cover fixed costs back when it was designed as an incentive(subsidy!) program. Not the utilities.

 

[timselectric]

It was CPUC that specifically pushed for NEM that didn't cover fixed costs back when it was designed as an incentive(subsidy!) program. Not the utilities.

NEM was a bad gamble.
But, a base rate that doesn't cover base costs. That's the utilities fault.
My base rate covers my base costs. No matter what the job turns out to be. If it didn't, I couldn't remain in business.
My local utility is the same way. Base rate first, then you pay for usage.

 

[hwy17]

That's the utilities fault.

Still has to change. You can beat a utility into bankruptcy, we have done it multiple times in California. But then you realize oh shit, society needs this thing. So then you have to revise the plan.

 

[timselectric]

Still has to change. You can beat a utility into bankruptcy, we have done it multiple times in California. But then you realize oh shit, society needs this thing. So then you have to revise the plan.

I'm not arguing the fact that they need a better business model. Just that it should only involve charging for what they provide.
Income based charges are bs.
Mandatory solar on private residences is bs.
Mandatory export is bs.
Cubafornia is bs.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

California has had income based discounts on electric charges for over 30 years. Do you oppose those as well and do you oppose the same sort of programs in your region? Do you oppose the federal LIHEAP energy assistance? Do you oppose income based progressive taxation schemes?

Depends on who’s footing the bill.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

No more using the grid as a free battery.

My electric is free? Who knew?

 

[AT1(AW)]

"Income based" anything, is a non-starter, honestly. You're essentially penalizing people for striving to improve their situation, and rewarding those who don't. I'll pass. flat rates don't work, consumption based rates do. you use more, you pay more. you use less, you pay less.

New California laws 2024: Income-based electric bills

California residents might soon find their electric bills to be reflective of income, rather than actual electricity usage, under this new state law.

www.foxla.com

You were saying.

 

[n2aws]

New California laws 2024: Income-based electric bills

California residents might soon find their electric bills to be reflective of income, rather than actual electricity usage, under this new state law.

www.foxla.com

You were saying.

Did you just necro post a thread that hasn't been replied to in 4 months, to "call me out" by posting a link to an incomplete news article that pretty much says the exact same things discussed in this thread.. on the subject matter that essentially prompted this thread as if it was somehow new and/or unforseen/surprising/shocking?

 

[D71]

Look no complaints…. Biden plans to collect $2-$3 trillion more in taxes next year and more every year after from us while spending even more. Make sure you vote for Biden. He hired bunch of tax agents for the IRS they are currently in training and as soon as they get green cards will be to see you for an examination. Tax tax tax…

Vote Biden for a good time with your ass-in-agent




Your systems nor mine will survive. Ppl will be peaceful for a while…. Doom and Gloom every other day. The doom gloom tax man cometh. That fat dude dressed as a bearded lady gonna sing opera.

Watch these ppl's face. They use a lot of hand lotion.

 

[AT1(AW)]

Did you just necro post a thread that hasn't been replied to in 4 months, to "call me out" by posting a link to an incomplete news article that pretty much says the exact same things discussed in this thread.. on the subject matter that essentially prompted this thread as if it was somehow new and/or unforseen/surprising/shocking?

As a CA resident, I'm getting very tired of all the hidden taxes CA keeps throwing at me. As for the thread, reading for the first time yesterday, so excuse me for breathing.