Its a typical shame that Lithium batteries have followed the road of maximum greed but no surprise. Prices are chickensht. I have news of a great downturn in the world economic scene starting in Dec 2022...Food will be sky high in 2024 but I wonder when people stop buying other things if that will force the price of tech down too..will batteries lose half their price then???? It would be a fitting karma for the never-ending price gouging going on in the world. And all based in part on debt and printed money, not real sales.
changing world
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MurphyGuy
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In 2019, I paid $85/kWh for brand new LG lithium cells.. Bought 30 kWh worth of them with free shipping via LTL truck.
They sell today for $136 per kWh and you have to pay the shipping. =No thanks.
I'm going to wait until prices come back down to something reasonable. Let the suckers willing to pay the higher prices get them.
I suspect that prices for non-essential things will drop dramatically while prices for food, gas, oil, etc, will skyrocket. The war in Ukraine and the sanctions shutting down Russian oil is going to have everyone else sending fuel to Europe, which is probably going to cause natural gas in the USA to quadruple in price. Lots of things depend on natural gas.. and its going to be painful for a lot of people. The decline in discretionary spending for toys and luxuries is going to evaporate, and Christmas 2022 is going to be anorexic for a lot of people, which will severely harm a lot of retailers. I think China is going to feel it hard soon.. seems to be a delay, but they'll eventually feel the decline in consumer spending as well.
Yup.. one domino block at a time until they are all down.
We have the ability to be self sufficient if we want. I have all the stuff, all the supplies, all the renewables.. we just don't because its more effort right now. Higher food and gas prices don't bother me one bit.. its just pocket change.
They sell today for $136 per kWh and you have to pay the shipping. =No thanks.
I'm going to wait until prices come back down to something reasonable. Let the suckers willing to pay the higher prices get them.
I suspect that prices for non-essential things will drop dramatically while prices for food, gas, oil, etc, will skyrocket. The war in Ukraine and the sanctions shutting down Russian oil is going to have everyone else sending fuel to Europe, which is probably going to cause natural gas in the USA to quadruple in price. Lots of things depend on natural gas.. and its going to be painful for a lot of people. The decline in discretionary spending for toys and luxuries is going to evaporate, and Christmas 2022 is going to be anorexic for a lot of people, which will severely harm a lot of retailers. I think China is going to feel it hard soon.. seems to be a delay, but they'll eventually feel the decline in consumer spending as well.
Yup.. one domino block at a time until they are all down.
We have the ability to be self sufficient if we want. I have all the stuff, all the supplies, all the renewables.. we just don't because its more effort right now. Higher food and gas prices don't bother me one bit.. its just pocket change.
Im hearing the same.
John Frum
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Please cite your sources.
Why do you ask? You dont have google? Or are you just being argumentive and you want people to jump rhrough hoops for you?
Thats a bizarre and rare attitude, and an ability not shared by virtually anyone else in the general population. Independently wealthy people on unlimited budgets usually dont get that way by paying twice what they have to and the vast majority of people right now are having to cut back on certain things to continue to drive to work or feed their families. Youre that wealthy? Did you make that statement to gloat over others who are not?
Your statement reeks of the people who say things like "oh, theyre just homeless because they want to be" or "you could own your own business and be successful like me, if you only put some effort into it."
Some of your posts here are insightful, others, like this, it seems youre just trolling people to the point of being offensive.
"Let them eat cake" and "I got mine, sucks to be you." are just not a good look.
John Frum
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And you couldnt do that by spending a few munutes on google bringing yourself up to speed on what those in the discussion have already been reading about. The veracity of OUR claim? No, its not our claim. Ive been seeing it repeatedly in my news feeds for nearly a year now. Obviously the TC has too.
If your like to discuss the matter the usual thing is to go find out about it. Not demand that the topic of duscussion be proven to your satisfaction by those discussing it.
Who are you to "judge the veracity of our claim" if youve been so sheltered from exposure to news you havent heard a thing about it? And why should we feel obligated to spend time compiling a presentation of such obvious common knowledge for you when you havent spent any time looking for it yourself?
Im not going to apologize for a snarky rant either. Entering threads with a position of willful ignorance, demanding the obvious proven to their satisfaction, is employed by too many on the internet.
The only superior rebuttal you can offer is your own source predicting great times are around the corner, but Joe Bidens press secretary isnt getting taken seriously by too many sources.
For anyone thinking Im being an ass just google "is the world economy headed for a downturn". See the virtually unanimous opinions by all the worlds authorities.
The only dissent is how bad its gonna be.
Now imagine not being annoyed by someone barging into a discussion about it demanding to see a source so they can judge the veracity of YOUR claim.
The only dissent is how bad its gonna be.
Now imagine not being annoyed by someone barging into a discussion about it demanding to see a source so they can judge the veracity of YOUR claim.
MurphyGuy
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I'm certainly not rich, not even wealthy.. Just middle income classification, average house, etc. Even my dog is average. (LOL)
The only thing in my life that isn't average is a giant solar system and battery backup, and some other prepper related items, and while not average, these things are not unusual or relegated to the rich or wealthy either.
The problem in the USA is that people make bad decisions. They have some kind of "I'm special" entitlement "keeping up with the jones" thing going on.
My wife an I paid off our 30 year mortgage in 8 years, and when the wheels on her 20 year old vehicle actually fell off, we bought her a new car and paid cash, and she will drive that vehicle until the wheels fall off as well. I run up a credit card bill every month, I pay it off in full every month. By not paying interest, I have probably saved $100,000 over my lifetime.
Couple the "I have to have it now" attitudes that are always accompanied by interest payments, with the "not good enough for me" and the "I have to project an image", and its no wonder people are always struggling for money.
I drive a 22 year old rusting truck, I wear my shoes and clothing until they have holes in them (and sometimes I keep wearing them), I use a $28 flip phone from ebay on a $30 a month plan, I cut my own hair, my wife doesn't wear useless makeup or jewelry, and I fix or install everything in my own home.
Even my leather work gloves have the fingers wrapped in duct tape where holes appeared.
Do you buy rice at the grocery store? We buy it in 50 lb bags for 1/4 the price per pound and store it. Do you buy flour at the grocery store? We buy it in 50 lb bags for 1/4 the price as well... and store it.
How about beef? Do you buy it at your local grocery store? We buy a 1/2 cow from a local farmer and butcher it.. We save about 40% over what we'd pay at the grocery store. And the list goes on and on.... When they have a sale on some canned food, we buy enough to last two or more years.
Neither my wife or I are shy about shopping garage sales, dumpster diving, or picking something out of someone's garbage. We take care of the things we own, and we purchase industrial tools and equipment so we never have to buy the stuff again.
We don't buy alcohol or drugs, we don't eat out at restaurants, and we don't pay for cable television, netflix, or any other entertainment services.
We invest our money, and now we just started buying gold and silver coins.
Rich? I'm not even wealthy.. I just don't waste my money on useless crap like everyone else, and as a result, I'm flush with cash and investments and probably own every tool known to mankind.
But you know what the biggest difference probably is? I read books.. lots and lots of them. About 30 to 40 a year. Books teach, books convey ideas, books give you insight into things. Even science fiction books, books about history, autobiographies, etc. The last 50 books I've read include titles and authors such as
"The Violence Project" - (Research going back almost 100 years on what creates mass killers)
Lectures and books by Noam Chomsky
Lee Child's-Jack Reacher,
Craig Alanson's-Expeditionary Force <They need to make a movie on this series of books.
Jim Baggott
Michael Talbot
Thomas Paine - The Age of Reason (yes, that Thomas Paine)
Barbra Walter - Why civil wars start and how to stop them. <<Highly recommended.
And those are just the books from this year that I can remember. Not sure when it happened, but people stopped reading books and started staring at televisions and phones. Even Chomsky mentioned the unparalleled ability for corporations to shape the ignorant and malleable minds of the average person.
Need a leg up in life? Read more books.. its that simple. Find someone who is struggling in life, ask them how many books they read last year and I bet you the answer is zero..
All of that charming life story hardly explains why you wouldnt mind gas prices doubling and food prices spiralling out of control.
You make a lot of false assumptions. So you "read books". What makes you think youre the only one, or that I cant read a book on my phone?
You own every tool known to mankind... But you dont waste money on useless things. A wise craftsman owns the tools required for the task, anything exceeding this becomes excess inventory to maintain and store.
I wont get into the rant Id like to launch into with "I take care of my things". I guess the rest of us lose a pair of $100 mittens every day. I heard that **** from my parents when I was a child, mom finally admitted I must have listened when she realized Id owned the same Corvette (bought used) for 27 years, never put a scratch on it and did all the maintenance myself and all the repairs after the first few years.
I have a pair of ray ban shooting sunglasses a GF gave me in 1985.
I have a citizen titanium eco drive chronograph I received as a gift over 20 years ago.
Almost everyone takes care of their things.
Well I and most everyone struggling now have done most of these things that you think make you unique. It still doesnt explain why you would say you dont mind paying more for gas and food, and doesnt excuse cavalier statements implying all our financial problems would evaporate simply with a little effort, or because we want them too.
A little advice. Dont go dumpster diving with those worn out gloves. Great way to get a staph infection.
MurphyGuy
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Gasoline and food are not major expenses. Its not like a house payment doubled.. Its a couple of hundred bucks extra every month, and if someone can't afford a couple of hundred bucks extra every month, then they're probably the one with the $500 smart phone, netflix subscription, and new shoes.
And food prices are not "spiraling out of control".. they just went up a little. If people learned to purchase their food smartly, they won't notice it so much.
What makes me think I'm the only one? Is that a serious question? Do you read the news or the comments in social media? People are morons! They're not just stupid, they're complete idiots. And I didn't say or imply you "couldn't read a book on your phone", I said people don't read books anymore.
Ok.. When's the last time you read a book and what was it about?
And yet, when I need to do something, I don't have to waste money renting the tool.
No, most people do not take care of their stuff. Go to your neighbors house and pull the oil dipstick out of their lawn mower and tell me what you see. You might take care of YOUR stuff, that's great, so do I, but most people do not. We live in a disposable society these days, when it breaks, buy a new one.
I have a neighbor who's been cutting his 3 acres of grass with the same set of lawn mower blades year after year.. and hasn't sharpened them. I've offered, he doesn't want to take them off because they still seem to work fine. Do you have any idea how much extra stress dull blades put on a mower? Its the difference between the thing lasting 10 years and 20 years. Its the difference between replacing a belt every 3 or 4 years, or never having to replace it.
Its the small things that make the difference.. they add up fast. People will say "its only a $2 slushy drink, or a $5 coffee and breakfast from McDonalds", and they're the ones complaining on facebook using their $500 smart phone that things are too expensive and they're tight on money.
Hey man, if you don't agree with me, I'm okay with that.. You have your opinion, I have mine, and on this matter, your opinion doesn't have any affect on me. You know what's best for you and its not my place to tell you how to live.
I don't mind paying more because its such a minor expense. I don't WANT to pay more, that would be stupid, but its not going to affect my life any. I'm not going to have to give something up because gas and food went up a bit. I don't have any other bills. We've eliminated our electric bill, natural gas heating bill, mortgage, and don't have any credit card debt or car payment. We call that "managing our money".
Your alleged situation isnt typical. For most people gas and food are significamt expenses. If gas wasnt before then it is now.
The average american drives 41 miles round trip each day to commute. This doesnt include pleasure, errands, family commitments. medical appts. Since that commute is during rush hour in often stop and go traffic you cant say buy a prius its just a gallon big deal.
Currently the average family spends $5000 a year on gasoline thats up from $2800: a year ago. Id say thats significant and money that can be better spent.
A word on your neighbors mower. I agree, I have a lady friend with probably a smaller yard, Ive sharpened her mower repeatedly as she and her roommate arent too careful about hitting rocks and pavement. Ive removed it a few times but its so beat up Id rather not break the retaining mechanism loosening it now so I grind it in situ. I have a cool tiny, like half size makita 1/4" electric drill, no longer made, that spins at 4500 rpm with 2 amps so it wont hurt you if you get on the wrong end of rotation on the work.
Its great for polishing and grinding makita called it an aircraft production drill when i special ordered it over 20 years ago.
I cant imagine a blade not sharpened for years. The only downside to sharpening on the machine is its hard to see if its imbalanced. I guess youd hear and feel it if it were bad.
MurphyGuy
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Gas and food are significant expenses because they have spent the bulk of their money on frivolous other things. I do agree that my situation isn't typical.. Funny thing though, my two closest friends, while politically and religiously opposite of me, are the same when it comes to finances and the other stuff I've been saying. All three of us use flip phones, don't have any entertainment subscriptions, don't eat out, buy our food in bulk, wear crappy clothes, and drive older vehicles. You know what else is the same? None of us owe anyone any money and we avoid interest payments like most people avoid Ebola. our houses are all paid off and we are all flush with cash. One is a retired postal worker, the other owns some lawn care equipment and has been mowing lawns for 40 years. And when lawnmower man needed a new roof, he simply paid cash for it and didn't even flinch.
If a significant amount of their money is being spent on a daily commute, why don't they own a prius? How many people do you think own pickup trucks and live in a cookie cutter subdivision with 60 x 120 foot postage stamp lots? They're not driving that pickup because it makes financial sense or because they need it for work, they're driving it because of the image they think it projects. Which is exactly what I was talking about.
I own a pickup truck, but I haul firewood, lumber, bricks, farm equipment, and all kinds of stuff.
Corporate America has convinced people they need or want things they wouldn't otherwise purchase. Through repeated television images of beautiful people running through flowery fields with big smiles, to the hard pounding, mud slinging roughneck bad boys, the television tells people what they desire, and the money flows out of their pockets. Meanwhile, the vast majority of these people are so stupid they couldn't even calculate the surface area of a circle if you gave them a calculator.
The rest is just excuses.
I agree. it is a significant change and it could be better spent.. but it won't be better spent. Put that money in their pocket and the combination of marketing, ignorance, and ego will suck it right back out. Which is why they'll be FORCED to cut back on other things, and then the complaints start.
Consider the following: If people were smart, there would be no such thing as casino's or lottery tickets. They say that the lottery is a tax on the poor.. that's politically correct speech because what they really mean is that its a tax on the stupid.
This is the USA, we're the richest country on the planet by both national and per capita measures, and you're telling me people can't afford gas and food because the price went up a bit?
There's no way you can account for that without coming to the conclusion that people waste their money.
You can sharpen a mower blade by hand once or twice, but then it needs to be done professionally so it can be balanced. I keep 5 sets of blades and give them to my lawnmower man who can sharpen and balance them professionally. When they come back, he puts masking tape on cutting edge because they're so sharp.
I change blades every 15 to 20 hours of cutting. A dull blade can use up to 50% more gas to do the same job as a sharp one. (at least in my mower it does)
Wow, you really seem to have a lot of hate and contempt for people you dont even know, and seem to be imaginary caricatures based upon stereotypes. While all the while holding yourself ultimately superior to those around you. I dont dispute people might make poor decisions but after all what started this was your defense of Biden policies causing artificial increases in commodities people need to survive.
Your argument amounts to we shouldnt care about those policies because we should have a cushion in our budgets to absorb such unecessary increases- if we dont its because we are stupid and squander our money. Well the logical fail is that if everyone was as much a tightwad aa you claim to be our economy would have ground to a halt long ago.
Your dismissal of the entire population as undeserving concern for their personal finances as Bidens approach to saving the planet by making commodities prohibitively expensive affects them, amounts to a psychopathic argument. Thats as far as I will go ad hominem.
The bigger issue toward society, or the problem for you, is all these people you consider as dim witted, or irresponsible, at the end of the day, have the same democratic power you have. They get a vote, you get a vote.
Its a good thing for us all they (we?) are hardly as dumb and irresponsible as you imagine we are.
MurphyGuy
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There it is! I was wondering when you were going to start up. If you're angry that I hold people responsible for their own behavior and choices, then you must be one of the people who make bad choices. How's that $500 cell phone in your pocket?
Holding myself superior? Remind me, which one of us is complaining about inflation and food and gas prices going up a bit? I'm not superior, but my financial choices might be superior to some (most?) and, judging by some of these stock guru's and their yachts, probably inferior to others.
Biden policies? What Biden policies are causing artificial inflation? Please, be as specific as you can be <Oh, I can't wait to here this one.
WHAT POLICIES?
If our economy needs to be supported by the foolish and wasteful spending habits of our society, then it should have collapsed long ago. Also, those foolish purchases aren't supporting OUR economy, they support China's economy.
People aren't wasting their money on lumber or construction materials or other things still produced in the USA, they're wasting money on useless trinkets. Go to any garage sale and you'll get an open viewing of all the garbage people buy.
LOL.. Your hyperbole loaded insults are kind of comical and pathetic. But I find it strange that you want (expect) me to be concerned about the personal finances of others. That's a bit disturbing actually and seems to have a taste authoritarian or socialist flavor to it. I'm supposed to be concerned with the personal finances and choices other people make? WTF?
And once again, you're babbling about Biden's policies without being specific.
Yup, we call that democracy.
Yes, you are a real genius there.
Lol. You brag about having a flip phone. My smart phone means I never get lost, I get gas as cheap as I can with the gas buddy app. I save time because I can check store inventory when I go to the store for anything. When I meet people I send a pin to our meeting place so theres no confusion.
Lets not pretend smart phones dont have value in business, convenience, etc. Arguing we are all stupid money squandering fools because we lack your 1995 flip phone is an argument that wont win you much of an audience in 2022.
I have an $1100 phone, thank you, but was $400 and change with a lucrative trade in policy. Because of it I dont need a TV or DVDs or cable.
And you have every tool known to man, surely that extravagance was more than $400.
Okay what biden policies.
Start with this.
Executive Order on Protecting Public Health and the Environment and Restoring Science to Tackle the Climate Crisis | The White House
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Policy. Our Nation has an abiding commitment to empower our workers and communities; promote and protect our public health and the...
If you drink the blue koolaid might sound like rainbows and unicorns.
It drove petroleum prices on a climb since he took office.
Biden, and leftists, wanted $6 a gallon gas and higher. Your claim that you dont mind suggests you share their destructive beliefs. This contradicts your claims of frugality..