diy solar

diy solar

Grid reliability with current administration

KellyDood

New Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2022
Messages
86
Location
Outside your window
Hi,

Not trying to get political but, with the current administration's hostility towards fossil fuels and promotion of going green with more EVs etc, I'm concerned about putting greater Demand on our grid without increasing Production.
I don't see actions that are increasing reliable production in any measure. A good example is California already having issues with winds, fires, power down while adding more EVs to the system.
I have read that they are requiring solar on new homes.

I'm thinking if there's any significant outage there'll be a run on solar equipment quickly leading to shortages (remember shoppers camped out in stores hoping a truck was unloading toilet paper).

Do you foresee increased power outages coming? How are you preparing?
 
I see no issues on the horizon. Lack of generating capacity has caused very few rolling outages in CA.
Grid upgrades are in process.

Wind and fire is a different issue and may cause some issues until something is worked out. Some remote areas could have issues indefinitely.
 
Welcome to the party KellyDood

Look into the crystal ball and you shall see... ah, never-mind.
Yep the power will go out.
System not tied to the grid so I don't go down when it does. ;)

What about you, any thoughts you would like to share?
 
Hi,

Not trying to get political but, with the current administration's hostility towards fossil fuels and promotion of going green with more EVs etc, I'm concerned about putting greater Demand on our grid without increasing Production.
But we are increasing production in the form of distributed solar installations. Time and time again, distributed systems have proven to be far more reliable then centralized systems.
I don't see actions that are increasing reliable production in any measure. A good example is California already having issues with winds, fires, power down while adding more EVs to the system.
I have read that they are requiring solar on new homes.
California's power issues are due to global warming and climate change as well as people occupying geographic areas they should not be occupying.
Also, the amount of available production and the reliability of the grid have almost nothing to do with each other. Grid reliability is a function of age and technology, and most of our grid is old.
The cost of upgrading the grid has skyrocketed.. higher materials cost, higher labor cost, more litigation for land use, etc. People moan and complain already about the cost of their electricity, they certainly aren't going to want a 50% increase in their bill to upgrade the grid.

I'm thinking if there's any significant outage there'll be a run on solar equipment quickly leading to shortages (remember shoppers camped out in stores hoping a truck was unloading toilet paper).

Do you foresee increased power outages coming? How are you preparing?
Define "significant outage" ?? If the entire country went dark, we'd be fine for about 3 days.. By the end of the second week, we'd be in a full Mad Max SHTF situation and the chaos would most likely prevent workers from fixing anything. As trucks rolled down the street, they'd be ambushed for their food and supplies.. Within 2 months, 10% of the country would be dead.. within 6 months, 30% would be dead, and within a year, 90% would have died. (read the congressional EMP Report). Without power, there is no water for city folks, no food, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, no medical care, no drugs, no emergency services..

I do foresee more power outages coming. As the planet warms up, more extreme weather events will happen and cause more frequent localized disruptions.

I live in the rural countryside and when big storms roll though and knock out Detroit and other large cities, the areas with the highest population density are fixed first.. this means us country folks with 10, 20 or 100 acres, are waiting for up to a week or more. We're kind of used to it. In 2020, we lost power 9 times in one year for an average of 3 to 4 days each time.

When it happens, we have lots of options for power generation. First, we have a large 11kW grid tied solar system that is capable of generating 4kW @120 volts all on its own.. (we don't even use that feature).. When the grid goes down, we flip two switches and start up our off grid system. 25kWh of lithium battery feeding two Sunny Island inverters creates our own private 120/240 grid system.. From there, the grid tied solar thinks the grid is active again and starts generating power. If it makes too much power, the extra juice charges the batteries, if it doesn't make enough, the batteries make up for the deficit to power the home. In short, when the grid goes down and we switch to the off grid system, our lives continue as normal.

For those dark cloudy days, we can use a generator to charge the batteries if needed. Our generator can run on gasoline, propane, or be hooked up to our natural gas line.. It can run for two or three hours at full power and charge our batteries so we don't have to charge them again for a couple days if the sun doesn't shine. If we run out of the common fuels, I can hook up a wood-gassifier to provide the needed energy to run the generator.

City folks would be so screwed its a bit horrifying to think of it.. Most country folks would be fine for quite a while, some of us would do better than others, but most would be fine..
 
Countries run perfectly on renewables these days, for half of their consumption, some even more, and a few have managed 100%. The problem of outages may be one of missing or bad infrastructure and redundancy in distribution, not of the energy source.

Obvious example: I even saw a sloppy bundle of power lines nailed to trees in the US, in the mid 2000s. On the only line leading to a neighbourhood, where there can be tornadoes, snow, thunderstorms, frost, blazing sun, the full program. Sure that'll go down sooner than something proper, depending on local climate.
 
But we are increasing production in the form of distributed solar installations. Time and time again, distributed systems have proven to be far more reliable then centralized systems.

California's power issues are due to global warming and climate change as well as people occupying geographic areas they should not be occupying.
Also, the amount of available production and the reliability of the grid have almost nothing to do with each other. Grid reliability is a function of age and technology, and most of our grid is old.
The cost of upgrading the grid has skyrocketed.. higher materials cost, higher labor cost, more litigation for land use, etc. People moan and complain already about the cost of their electricity, they certainly aren't going to want a 50% increase in their bill to upgrade the grid.


Define "significant outage" ?? If the entire country went dark, we'd be fine for about 3 days.. By the end of the second week, we'd be in a full Mad Max SHTF situation and the chaos would most likely prevent workers from fixing anything. As trucks rolled down the street, they'd be ambushed for their food and supplies.. Within 2 months, 10% of the country would be dead.. within 6 months, 30% would be dead, and within a year, 90% would have died. (read the congressional EMP Report). Without power, there is no water for city folks, no food, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, no medical care, no drugs, no emergency services..

I do foresee more power outages coming. As the planet warms up, more extreme weather events will happen and cause more frequent localized disruptions.

I live in the rural countryside and when big storms roll though and knock out Detroit and other large cities, the areas with the highest population density are fixed first.. this means us country folks with 10, 20 or 100 acres, are waiting for up to a week or more. We're kind of used to it. In 2020, we lost power 9 times in one year for an average of 3 to 4 days each time.

When it happens, we have lots of options for power generation. First, we have a large 11kW grid tied solar system that is capable of generating 4kW @120 volts all on its own.. (we don't even use that feature).. When the grid goes down, we flip two switches and start up our off grid system. 25kWh of lithium battery feeding two Sunny Island inverters creates our own private 120/240 grid system.. From there, the grid tied solar thinks the grid is active again and starts generating power. If it makes too much power, the extra juice charges the batteries, if it doesn't make enough, the batteries make up for the deficit to power the home. In short, when the grid goes down and we switch to the off grid system, our lives continue as normal.

For those dark cloudy days, we can use a generator to charge the batteries if needed. Our generator can run on gasoline, propane, or be hooked up to our natural gas line.. It can run for two or three hours at full power and charge our batteries so we don't have to charge them again for a couple days if the sun doesn't shine. If we run out of the common fuels, I can hook up a wood-gassifier to provide the needed energy to run the generator.

City folks would be so screwed its a bit horrifying to think of it.. Most country folks would be fine for quite a while, some of us would do better than others, but most would be fine..
Thanks, Murphy.

I've been in outages from hurricanes, earthquakes, rainstorms and equipment failures.

People said the area I lived in Maine wouldn't go out but I had only been in my house for a month when we had the record outage of 2017. My power was out for 3 days - others were out for weeks. Towns put out huge dumpsters for all the spoiled food. Fortunately, I had a gas generator and lost nothing but didn't endear myself to the neighbors with it running all night.

I'm glad you have a backup system for your situation because - you're right: it doesn't take long for chaos to ensue after the lights go out.
 
But we are increasing production in the form of distributed solar installations. Time and time again, distributed systems have proven to be far more reliable then centralized systems.

California's power issues are due to global warming and climate change as well as people occupying geographic areas they should not be occupying.
Also, the amount of available production and the reliability of the grid have almost nothing to do with each other. Grid reliability is a function of age and technology, and most of our grid is old.
The cost of upgrading the grid has skyrocketed.. higher materials cost, higher labor cost, more litigation for land use, etc. People moan and complain already about the cost of their electricity, they certainly aren't going to want a 50% increase in their bill to upgrade the grid.


Define "significant outage" ?? If the entire country went dark, we'd be fine for about 3 days.. By the end of the second week, we'd be in a full Mad Max SHTF situation and the chaos would most likely prevent workers from fixing anything. As trucks rolled down the street, they'd be ambushed for their food and supplies.. Within 2 months, 10% of the country would be dead.. within 6 months, 30% would be dead, and within a year, 90% would have died. (read the congressional EMP Report). Without power, there is no water for city folks, no food, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, no medical care, no drugs, no emergency services..

I do foresee more power outages coming. As the planet warms up, more extreme weather events will happen and cause more frequent localized disruptions.

I live in the rural countryside and when big storms roll though and knock out Detroit and other large cities, the areas with the highest population density are fixed first.. this means us country folks with 10, 20 or 100 acres, are waiting for up to a week or more. We're kind of used to it. In 2020, we lost power 9 times in one year for an average of 3 to 4 days each time.

When it happens, we have lots of options for power generation. First, we have a large 11kW grid tied solar system that is capable of generating 4kW @120 volts all on its own.. (we don't even use that feature).. When the grid goes down, we flip two switches and start up our off grid system. 25kWh of lithium battery feeding two Sunny Island inverters creates our own private 120/240 grid system.. From there, the grid tied solar thinks the grid is active again and starts generating power. If it makes too much power, the extra juice charges the batteries, if it doesn't make enough, the batteries make up for the deficit to power the home. In short, when the grid goes down and we switch to the off grid system, our lives continue as normal.

For those dark cloudy days, we can use a generator to charge the batteries if needed. Our generator can run on gasoline, propane, or be hooked up to our natural gas line.. It can run for two or three hours at full power and charge our batteries so we don't have to charge them again for a couple days if the sun doesn't shine. If we run out of the common fuels, I can hook up a wood-gassifier to provide the needed energy to run the generator.

City folks would be so screwed its a bit horrifying to think of it.. Most country folks would be fine for quite a while, some of us would do better than others, but most would be fine..
This guy describes that California will have no issues then talks about using his gasoline powered generator, illegal in California next year, to charge his batteries.
Hubris and ignorance like this would be pure comedy if it werent other peoples lives being affected.

Anyway since its the off topic section Ill bring this up too. Before its completely removed from the internet.
 
This guy describes that California will have no issues then talks about using his gasoline powered generator, illegal in California next year, to charge his batteries.
Hubris and ignorance like this would be pure comedy if it werent other peoples lives being affected.

Anyway since its the off topic section Ill bring this up too. Before its completely removed from the internet.
And BatShette Crazy troll shows up to inject his conspiracy garbage into yet another thread.
 
I just got off a one week ban for "insulting other members". Lets see if the moderation staff enforces the rules equally. There was no content to murphyguys post other than insults to other members.
 
"Define "significant outage" ?? If the entire country went dark, we'd be fine for about 3 days.. By the end of the second week, we'd be in a full Mad Max SHTF situation and the chaos would most likely prevent workers from fixing anything. As trucks rolled down the street, they'd be ambushed for their food and supplies.. Within 2 months, 10% of the country would be dead.. within 6 months, 30% would be dead, and within a year, 90% would have died. (read the congressional EMP Report)."

Hilarious that an admitted prepper regularly envisioning such sutuations as reality has the audacity to accuse others of spreading conspiracy theories.
 
"Define "significant outage" ?? If the entire country went dark, we'd be fine for about 3 days.. By the end of the second week, we'd be in a full Mad Max SHTF situation and the chaos would most likely prevent workers from fixing anything. As trucks rolled down the street, they'd be ambushed for their food and supplies.. Within 2 months, 10% of the country would be dead.. within 6 months, 30% would be dead, and within a year, 90% would have died. (read the congressional EMP Report)."

Hilarious that an admitted prepper regularly envisioning such sutuations as reality has the audacity to accuse others of spreading conspiracy theories.
Yes, it is hilarious...

Stupid can't be fixed.
 
Stop pooping on my thread! :eek:
Sorry about that.. Batvette isn't here to have honest discussions or help, he's just here to spread his conspiracy propaganda.. and since this is an off-topic, anything goes, sub forum, the website owners don't moderate it.

If there's anything I can help you with concerning solar or backup generators for long term grid-down events, let me know. Our family has a lot of experience with power outages.

Unfortunately, if you want to build an emergency off grid system, its bad timing right now. Lithium batteries are in short supply and the demand is high, which has caused their price to go up quite a bit.
If you were inquiring about a full time off-grid setup, I would recommend a good Trojan brand lead acid battery, but lead acid doesn't do well just sitting in storage for a possible emergency one day..
 
On a sidenote, it probably got around that western and central Europe was hit by a severe storm (dubbed "Ylenia") last night, and the next one is on the doorstep. There have been multiple outages, mostly due to falling trees that cut lines, air- and rail-traffic was dirsrupted. It left homes in the dark for several hours. Connections have been re-established it seems (source German news outlet).
 
Last edited:
Sorry about that.. Batvette isn't here to have honest discussions or help, he's just here to spread his conspiracy propaganda.. and since this is an off-topic, anything goes, sub forum, the website owners don't moderate it.

If there's anything I can help you with concerning solar or backup generators for long term grid-down events, let me know. Our family has a lot of experience with power outages.

Unfortunately, if you want to build an emergency off grid system, its bad timing right now. Lithium batteries are in short supply and the demand is high, which has caused their price to go up quite a bit.
If you were inquiring about a full time off-grid setup, I would recommend a good Trojan brand lead acid battery, but lead acid doesn't do well just sitting in storage for a possible emergency one day..
Thanks, Murphy. I noticed the Jackery 2000s were sold out and wonder if it was a lot of Texans who went thru last winter's outage debacle. I'm not doing anything much more than I already have because I'm such a gypsy and may not recoup any solar investment I leave behind.

I like how light and quiet these solar generators are :giggle:
 
Thanks, Murphy. I noticed the Jackery 2000s were sold out and wonder if it was a lot of Texans who went thru last winter's outage debacle. I'm not doing anything much more than I already have because I'm such a gypsy and may not recoup any solar investment I leave behind.

I like how light and quiet these solar generators are :giggle:
To be honest, those little "solar generators" might be great for camping or something, but I wouldn't depend on one of them for emergency use.

They're basically made with the cheapest components one can purchase.. They have only recently become popular and now the market is flooded with them, but in about 5 years, when the batteries take a dump, people are going to be out a lot of money. In short, they are a gimmick that looks good in the advertisement, but in reality they are just another piece of Chinese junk.

I would highly recommend a few off-the-shelf solar panels paired with a Victron system.. This allows you to choose, replace, and upgrade any battery you want anytime you want, along with all the other components. And Victron has a good reputation.. they're not the best, but they are known to be reliable. If one part of your system fails, you don't end up with a paperweight, if you find that one part of your system is a little small for your needs, you can simply upgrade it or add on to it.

From another perspective, a good engine driven generator is a reliable backup system as well. While there are lots of problems with storing gasoline, you can run them on propane or natural gas.. and if you want to go hard-core, you can get a diesel generator and store kerosene for a very long time.
 
On a sidenote, it probably got around that western and central Europe was hit by a severe storm (dubbed "Ylenia") last night, and the next one is on the doorstep. There have been multiple outages, mostly due to falling trees that cut lines, air- and rail-traffic was dirsrupted. It left homes in the dark for several hours. Connections have been re-established it seems (source German news outlet).
DTE (our utility company) said that trees account for over 90% of all power line problems in Michigan. I knew they were a problem, but had no idea it was THAT big of a problem.
 
To be honest, those little "solar generators" might be great for camping or something, but I wouldn't depend on one of them for emergency use.

They're basically made with the cheapest components one can purchase.. They have only recently become popular and now the market is flooded with them, but in about 5 years, when the batteries take a dump, people are going to be out a lot of money. In short, they are a gimmick that looks good in the advertisement, but in reality they are just another piece of Chinese junk.

I would highly recommend a few off-the-shelf solar panels paired with a Victron system.. This allows you to choose, replace, and upgrade any battery you want anytime you want, along with all the other components. And Victron has a good reputation.. they're not the best, but they are known to be reliable. If one part of your system fails, you don't end up with a paperweight, if you find that one part of your system is a little small for your needs, you can simply upgrade it or add on to it.

From another perspective, a good engine driven generator is a reliable backup system as well. While there are lots of problems with storing gasoline, you can run them on propane or natural gas.. and if you want to go hard-core, you can get a diesel generator and store kerosene for a very long time.
Good points. Portability is important but I wasn't familiar with those skinny Lithium batteries I see in Will's videos. I use gel in van install for price and I was also nervous about the explosions/fires I'd seen with smaller Lithiums.
I have a gas generator and I used to use a Honda out camping but, even though it's one of the quietest, it still seemed pretty darned loud to me especially when others were camping nearby.
So, current plan is to run gas generator in day and switch to solar generators at night. My fridge/freezer stuff isn't critical so I don't have large power needs beyond CPAP.
 
Good points. Portability is important but I wasn't familiar with those skinny Lithium batteries I see in Will's videos. I use gel in van install for price and I was also nervous about the explosions/fires I'd seen with smaller Lithiums.
I have a gas generator and I used to use a Honda out camping but, even though it's one of the quietest, it still seemed pretty darned loud to me especially when others were camping nearby.
So, current plan is to run gas generator in day and switch to solar generators at night. My fridge/freezer stuff isn't critical so I don't have large power needs beyond CPAP.
Ideally, you want the engine driven generator to charge the solar batteries when there isn't enough sun. Gas generators are super reliable, but their fuel supply is the problem. It really depends on your needs as there's a world of difference between a localized 3 day outage or 3 month outage, and something that devastates the country.

Good choice with that little Honda.. keep the oil changed per recommendations and it will probably last a life time. Honda generators are among the best.
 
Back
Top