Longevity and DIY Service / Maintenance

[BudT]

I wanted to see what other are thinking about this. I have been moving forward with research and speaking with some vendors and permitting entities to understand more about the process. Everything looks very positive and seems to be a no brainer in many ways. But I do have one concern that may be a deal breaker.

If I install this system DIY (which is the only way I'll do it), I have concerns about maintenance and service when something happens to me or if I'm no longer able to take care of it for health-related reasons. We are in our late 50's now, and understand that tomorrow and all its promise, is not guaranteed. I really have some reservations about setting up a large system and leaving my wife in a spot where she has to figure out how to get the system serviced or repaired ect. We live in a small rural town where I do everything repair related with the exception of HVAC, mostly because it is difficult to get service people in our area. I know there should not be too much to the panels, and they will be on a ground array. But I guess my concern is the "all in one" charger / inverters systems, regardless of which we would decide to use, I'm looking at EG4 18kpv and Sol Ark 15k systems (I'll have 2 of which ever we go with), and at least one 30kwh battery, and possibly could be 3 30kwh battery systems. I realize that life is full of tradeoffs and there is some potential give on the convenience side for the financial, independence, and environmental stewardship gains. My experience with anything mechanical or electromechanical is that sooner or later it will fail. In the opinon of those who have already made the transition, who do you see servicing or repairing your DIY system when you cant??

One other question I'd like to ask is, my plan is to install the chargers / inverters, as well as battery banks in my attached garage. I know from what I have read some of you have installed your equipment in a solar shed, which sounds like a building specific for that equipment, detached from your living quarters. I can see where this would be an ideal option but will not work for me. I have seen several pictures on Tesla and other advertisements where it looks like all of the equipment is installed in attached garages. Would those of you who have been using solar have any reservations about this?

 

[wdwtx2.0]

My current system is strictly off grid.
I have 2 AIO 6000 watt controllers, and 61+ kWh of LiFePO4 batteries in our living space.
When I build my house at this location, I will have a mechanical room to contain it all, but it will still be in the main house.
I do not lose sleep worrying.

 

[NCislander]

Follow electrical standards as well as you are able, and document everything. Keep a wiring diagrahm printed out close to your equipment. Document Turn-On/Turn-Off procedures. Document everything.
Then possibly have your HVAC/Electrician make an on-site visit to do a walk through with you to see if your layout makes sense.
I have similar concerns and do what I can.

 

[BudT]

Follow electrical standards as well as you are able, and document everything. Keep a wiring diagrahm printed out close to your equipment. Document Turn-On/Turn-Off procedures. Document everything.
Then possibly have your HVAC/Electrician make an on-site visit to do a walk through with you to see if your layout makes sense.
I have similar concerns and do what I can.

Good advice, thank you and I'm glad to see that others are thinking 20-30 years down the road. The game changes as we keep saying "good morning" whether we like it or not. I know I can not do today what I did in my 30's, and Im afraid the compounding accelarates over the next 30 years. There are no doubt a lot of very good reasons to go solar, I just have to get this one figured out before I can fully embrace it.

 

[NCislander]

Good advice, thank you and I'm glad to see that others are thinking 20-30 years down the road. The game changes as we keep saying "good morning" whether we like it or not. I know I can not do today what I did in my 30's, and Im afraid the compounding accelarates over the next 30 years. There are no doubt a lot of very good reasons to go solar, I just have to get this one figured out before I can fully embrace it.

I'm a bit older than you, You can do anything you put your mind to. Just takes longer for some of us.

 

[SeaGal]

If I install this system DIY (which is the only way I'll do it), I have concerns about maintenance and service when something happens to me or if I'm no longer able to take care of it for health-related reasons. We are in our late 50's now, and understand that tomorrow and all its promise, is not guaranteed. I really have some reservations about setting up a large system and leaving my wife in a spot where she has to figure out how to get the system serviced or repaired ect...

...I'm looking at EG4 18kpv and Sol Ark 15k systems (I'll have 2 of which ever we go with), and at least one 30kwh battery, and possibly could be 3 30kwh battery systems. ...

... In the opinon of those who have already made the transition, who do you see servicing or repairing your DIY system when you cant??

Definitely good to consider all of that, I have done so too. As mentioned above, documentation of how it works, how it is connected etc., is important.

I am also making some little 'how-to' guides. Simple steps that anyone can follow if something happens..

e.g. What to do if the battery stops charging; what to do if the inverter reports no solar input; what to do if the AC breaker trips etc. Obviously I can't anticipate everything, but there are a few key things that are more likely to happen and then document the steps needed to at least identify where the problem is, even if the person following it can't fix it.

For us, it's a bit more complex as I have DIY battery system, quite a bit of custom code and IoT type devices controlling the battery, the immersion diverter and the reporting systems.

In your case, although you may be DIYing your installation it sounds as though you will be buying commercially available components that any decent solar engineer can understand, fix or replace.

The other way of looking at it, is.... even if you got a so-called professional company to install a solar and ESS system, what is the chance they are still around in 20 years time if something goes wrong and you are not able to sort it out yourself?

 

[Hedges]

Even if it is professionally installed, you probably won't be able to get anyone to repair it.
Possibly if by a large company which does everything (e.g. Tesla, others.)

You haven't said if this is GT PV, grid backup, or offgrid.

If GT PV, you don't have to do anything when it fails. Except maybe request a different rate schedule.

If backup, be sure to install a switch to easily bypass.

Offgrid, consider a generator as backup. There should be support available.

You could buy a spare inverter, temporarily install to configure, then set aside. An electrician ought to be able to swap it for you later.

Batteries? Those will likely not be supportable. May or may not be possible to replace with different kind years from now. BMS communication likely incompatible.

And why is it a no-brainer? Can you count on getting a return in few enough years that you'll be able to do the support yourself?
Are your utility rates high?

 

[BudT]

Definitely good to consider all of that, I have done so too. As mentioned above, documentation of how it works, how it is connected etc., is important.

I am also making some little 'how-to' guides. Simple steps that anyone can follow if something happens..

e.g. What to do if the battery stops charging; what to do if the inverter reports no solar input; what to do if the AC breaker trips etc. Obviously I can't anticipate everything, but there are a few key things that are more likely to happen and then document the steps needed to at least identify where the problem is, even if the person following it can't fix it.

For us, it's a bit more complex as I have DIY battery system, quite a bit of custom code and IoT type devices controlling the battery, the immersion diverter and the reporting systems.

In your case, although you may be DIYing your installation it sounds as though you will be buying commercially available components that any decent solar engineer can understand, fix or replace.

The other way of looking at it, is.... even if you got a so-called professional company to install a solar and ESS system, what is the chance they are still around in 20 years time if something goes wrong and you are not able to sort it out yourself?

Thank you for offering your input, I do appreciate it. The documentation / thorough labeling suggestions are a great start, and yes you are correct it will be a commercially available plug and play system for the most part. The guides suggestions are great as well, we have that now for utilizing our temporary generator when the grid goes down. Luckily my wife is very capable when it comes to handling things like this. I'll continue to move forward with the due diligence on this, hopefully the industry will continue to mature over the next 10-20 years and electricians and service people will be more willing and available to help with these types of systems. I will say that I looked into solar pretty seriously in 2015, and put it on hold due to a couple of natural disasters in our area. In 10 years it has progressed a tremendous amount.

 

[BudT]

Even if it is professionally installed, you probably won't be able to get anyone to repair it.
Possibly if by a large company which does everything (e.g. Tesla, others.)

You haven't said if this is GT PV, grid backup, or offgrid.

If GT PV, you don't have to do anything when it fails. Except maybe request a different rate schedule.

If backup, be sure to install a switch to easily bypass.

Offgrid, consider a generator as backup. There should be support available.

You could buy a spare inverter, temporarily install to configure, then set aside. An electrician ought to be able to swap it for you later.

Batteries? Those will likely not be supportable. May or may not be possible to replace with different kind years from now. BMS communication likely incompatible.

And why is it a no-brainer? Can you count on getting a return in few enough years that you'll be able to do the support yourself?
Are your utility rates high?

Thank you for the feedback, you make some good points that I will look into. Our system will be a grid tie. I will explore further your comment about it being a GT PV. If these inverters / controllers work this way, (fail to the grid as a backup) then that would be best case scenario. We would just drop back to complete grid reliance until the system can be diagnosed and repaired. I no doubt still have a lot to learn here.

With regard to it being a "no-brainer", what I meant was the overall benefits realized far outweigh the financial investment, and that is before considering what the future may look like with EVs. As far as the return, based on the calculators and just "napkin math" it looks like it will be about 9 years to recover the investment, and start generating a return going forward. And lastly, no today our utility rates are not high. Our area is currently regulated and we have one provider. Our rate is about 0.12kwh, but we do consume quite a bit of power at an avg of 2700kwh/mo. I really do appreciate your help. There is a lot to consider, the more I learn the more questions come up.

 

[SeaGal]

As far as the return, based on the calculators and just "napkin math" it looks like it will be about 9 years to recover the investment, and start generating a return going forward. And lastly, no today our utility rates are not high. Our area is currently regulated and we have one provider. Our rate is about 0.12kwh, but we do consume quite a bit of power at an avg of 2700kwh/mo

That's cheap. Here in the UK the typical daytime rate is about 0.4 US $ per kWh! So, finally I found a benefit to living in the UK... it means our ROI for solar does make it a "no-brainer"

 

[Hedges]

Our rate is about 0.12kwh, but we do consume quite a bit of power at an avg of 2700kwh/mo.

At that price, not like the no-brainers those of us in San Jose or UK see.

Add up what your system will cost.
Divide by kW output, average sun hours year round, 20 years.

When I do that, looks to me like hardware for DIY GT PV might be as low as $0.025/kWh.
Turnkey including labor an markup (based on reports of installed price I find on line), $0.10/kWh

Your consumption doesn't change the payback, except for helping with economy of scale. I can make 100 kWh/day on the best of days with about 15kW of PV panels. Your location will need about 22kW (which could cost around $5000 for panels, not bad. Mounting hardware is significant, however.)

Considering time value of money (financial net present value calculation rather than simple amortization), you lose money paying for turnkey install. (Maybe time value and rate increases wash out.) That is before considering possible failure/repair, and any impact on your roof or extra cost or roof repairs.

So I think it can make sense for DIY, only in that you're paying yourself for your labor.
If you are patient and shop hard, you may reduce cost significantly below $1/W for hardware. I've bought panels as low as $0.10/W, also inverters for $0.10/W. Picked up some leftover mounting rails and standoffs.

But, there could be better use of your money and time. Like building a rental unit.

 

[wpns]

Even if it is professionally installed, you probably won't be able to get anyone to repair it.

This. No solar install company today is still going to be in business and supporting their clients in 30 years. Document everything and walk your spouse through easy resets and bypass settings and then just listen to the virtual money roll in.

 

[BudT]

At that price, not like the no-brainers those of us in San Jose or UK see.

Add up what your system will cost.
Divide by kW output, average sun hours year round, 20 years.

When I do that, looks to me like hardware for DIY GT PV might be as low as $0.025/kWh.
Turnkey including labor an markup (based on reports of installed price I find on line), $0.10/kWh

Your consumption doesn't change the payback, except for helping with economy of scale. I can make 100 kWh/day on the best of days with about 15kW of PV panels. Your location will need about 22kW (which could cost around $5000 for panels, not bad. Mounting hardware is significant, however.)

Considering time value of money (financial net present value calculation rather than simple amortization), you lose money paying for turnkey install. (Maybe time value and rate increases wash out.) That is before considering possible failure/repair, and any impact on your roof or extra cost or roof repairs.

So I think it can make sense for DIY, only in that you're paying yourself for your labor.
If you are patient and shop hard, you may reduce cost significantly below $1/W for hardware. I've bought panels as low as $0.10/W, also inverters for $0.10/W. Picked up some leftover mounting rails and standoffs.

But, there could be better use of your money and time. Like building a rental unit.

Well you have given me somthing to think about. I will have to try to understand and investigate your analysis so that I have a better understanding of what I may be getting into. This is good information. I appreciate the time you took to share your perspective.

 

[BudT]

This. No solar install company today is still going to be in business and supporting their clients in 30 years. Document everything and walk your spouse through easy resets and bypass settings and then just listen to the virtual money roll in.

Thank you, I agree, it seem that you are gonna be on your own to keep things working. I really do like the idea of having a system. Just have to do a little more investigating.

Love the closing comment, "virtual money roll in".

 

[wpns]

virtual money roll in

I kinda want the sound of money to play on a speaker whenever I make a dollar. Coins dropping in a bucket? Cash register “ka-ching”?

 

[Danke]

Even if it is professionally installed, you probably won't be able to get anyone to repair it.
Possibly if by a large company which does everything (e.g. Tesla, others.)

You haven't said if this is GT PV, grid backup, or offgrid.

If GT PV, you don't have to do anything when it fails. Except maybe request a different rate schedule.

If backup, be sure to install a switch to easily bypass.

Offgrid, consider a generator as backup. There should be support available.

You could buy a spare inverter, temporarily install to configure, then set aside. An electrician ought to be able to swap it for you later.

Batteries? Those will likely not be supportable. May or may not be possible to replace with different kind years from now. BMS communication likely incompatible.

And why is it a no-brainer? Can you count on getting a return in few enough years that you'll be able to do the support yourself?
Are your utility rates high?

This. Since you are GT, have a transfer switch that anyone can throw to bypass the solar system. Then they will have time not to rush the repair and spend a fortune. Get quotes, etc.