bob monztr
New Member
Hello this is the information I found, any corrections help.
I just wanted to share some info that even google cannot be accurate with all results quoting lead acid stats, even battery voltage charge was lead acid stats.
Pb C batteries, the lead carbon battery is a special capacitive lead-acid battery. AGM glass mat carbon coated electrode, The traditional lead-acid battery unit is composed of a lead dioxide positive plate and a sponge lead negative plate, while the Pb C asymmetric super capacitor is made of lead dioxide positive electrode. Charge at 8x Lead Acid battery, Sulfation at P.S.O.C is greatly reduced, performance at P.S.O.C. is excellent 44V to 49V, 51.6 is 100% S.O.C.
I have yet to find a proper voltage chart for lead carbon, but these #'s should be close on S.O.C, charge rates are accurate. 51.6V 100% 43V 30% 46V 50% Absorb 57.8V float 55V
Cons a 12V/250A weighs 170lbs,100 % D.O.D. is possible up to 800 times (Nareda torture test) 50% 3200 cycles for long life unlike lead acid where 50% was dead and 400 cycles if abused, it takes an overvolt charge to create H gas, I can thank the old inverter for that info charging at 60v when set at 58v inverter voltmeters must be checked for accuracy. There is maintenance they have to get a full charge every 30 days.
Pro's Battery is sealed ,non-spillable , my 48kw can charge/discharge at 11kw, claimed 97% recyclable, operates with no BMS ,no equalizers, no temperature sensors or individual displays, charge as low as -40 to +60c, thermal runaway is not possible, claimed 3200 cycles before they degrade but what will go wrong besides loss of capacity ,it is a brick with 2 terminals and no reactive metals inside ,or a host of electronics to keep a lithium battery safe. Direct replacement for any old lead acid or AGM glass mat storage. Use lead acid setting on any inverter with slight value changes.
Observations: fast charge 30 to 85%, from 50v to 44V the voltage drop seems slower per hour vs the top 10% and bottom 25%, I buried these batteries at 41v, and they would lose .7v with a 2.2kw load. I was unaware for the first 5 months my inverter (firmware fault) was only charging to 60% soc 48.6V at most so PSOC for 5 months. The first day after the replacement I charged 5.4KW from gen and its was 49.4V, by the next day with more than enough power it went to 50.8V, then 51.2V, 51.5, then 51.7 so it took 5 days to recover from months of sulfation abuse, 52.6V highest resting so far.
How to make a Pb C battery unsafe, step one seal the bank up in airtight space, step 2 overcharge it over 61V or more for 4 years straight then Ignite the gas you need 40,000 pp. My overcharge gas test produced 15ppm per day. Since charging values are correct 0 ppm is a semi sealed space.
Lead carbon is more expensive and lower dod and cycles, but it won't turn into thermite if it fails. Most cases Pb C fails withing days from new, easily under warranty, almost all were drop damage, won't hold charge or voltage drop.
I am under 180 cycles per year should get 15 years before they slowly degrade over the following 5 years.
Victron , Nareda, Canbat made in canada, Koyosonic, Sacred sun, Exide, Hoppecke, Ever exceed?, CSB excellent website for battery info, Vision and the ones I bought Xterra are some of the Pb C manufactures. 3kw 12v 250 around 580 usd.
I hope that clears up a bit of info and give older systems a direct replacement.
I just wanted to share some info that even google cannot be accurate with all results quoting lead acid stats, even battery voltage charge was lead acid stats.
Pb C batteries, the lead carbon battery is a special capacitive lead-acid battery. AGM glass mat carbon coated electrode, The traditional lead-acid battery unit is composed of a lead dioxide positive plate and a sponge lead negative plate, while the Pb C asymmetric super capacitor is made of lead dioxide positive electrode. Charge at 8x Lead Acid battery, Sulfation at P.S.O.C is greatly reduced, performance at P.S.O.C. is excellent 44V to 49V, 51.6 is 100% S.O.C.
I have yet to find a proper voltage chart for lead carbon, but these #'s should be close on S.O.C, charge rates are accurate. 51.6V 100% 43V 30% 46V 50% Absorb 57.8V float 55V
Cons a 12V/250A weighs 170lbs,100 % D.O.D. is possible up to 800 times (Nareda torture test) 50% 3200 cycles for long life unlike lead acid where 50% was dead and 400 cycles if abused, it takes an overvolt charge to create H gas, I can thank the old inverter for that info charging at 60v when set at 58v inverter voltmeters must be checked for accuracy. There is maintenance they have to get a full charge every 30 days.
Pro's Battery is sealed ,non-spillable , my 48kw can charge/discharge at 11kw, claimed 97% recyclable, operates with no BMS ,no equalizers, no temperature sensors or individual displays, charge as low as -40 to +60c, thermal runaway is not possible, claimed 3200 cycles before they degrade but what will go wrong besides loss of capacity ,it is a brick with 2 terminals and no reactive metals inside ,or a host of electronics to keep a lithium battery safe. Direct replacement for any old lead acid or AGM glass mat storage. Use lead acid setting on any inverter with slight value changes.
Observations: fast charge 30 to 85%, from 50v to 44V the voltage drop seems slower per hour vs the top 10% and bottom 25%, I buried these batteries at 41v, and they would lose .7v with a 2.2kw load. I was unaware for the first 5 months my inverter (firmware fault) was only charging to 60% soc 48.6V at most so PSOC for 5 months. The first day after the replacement I charged 5.4KW from gen and its was 49.4V, by the next day with more than enough power it went to 50.8V, then 51.2V, 51.5, then 51.7 so it took 5 days to recover from months of sulfation abuse, 52.6V highest resting so far.
How to make a Pb C battery unsafe, step one seal the bank up in airtight space, step 2 overcharge it over 61V or more for 4 years straight then Ignite the gas you need 40,000 pp. My overcharge gas test produced 15ppm per day. Since charging values are correct 0 ppm is a semi sealed space.
Lead carbon is more expensive and lower dod and cycles, but it won't turn into thermite if it fails. Most cases Pb C fails withing days from new, easily under warranty, almost all were drop damage, won't hold charge or voltage drop.
I am under 180 cycles per year should get 15 years before they slowly degrade over the following 5 years.
Victron , Nareda, Canbat made in canada, Koyosonic, Sacred sun, Exide, Hoppecke, Ever exceed?, CSB excellent website for battery info, Vision and the ones I bought Xterra are some of the Pb C manufactures. 3kw 12v 250 around 580 usd.
I hope that clears up a bit of info and give older systems a direct replacement.
