Proper Service Disconnect

[TechRider]

Hello Everyone,

I'm close to getting my permission to sell back solar to my power company. This has been a 100% self install so far as I've had an ATS with a disconnect in it. I just got word back that the ATS with disconnect isn't acceptable and I'll have to install a knife style disconnect. I'm looking to see if anyone has any specific recommendations. Doing some searching, I've seen quite a few different options. I don't have any inspection / permitting requirements so I can do the work myself I just want to make sure I get the proper hardware. The last thing I want is to get something and install it, just to have them reject it.

Here's an excerpt from their document:

As permitted by IEEE Std 1547™-2018 Clause 4.8, a readily accessible, lockable, visible-break isolation
device shall be located between the Area EPS and the DER.
AEP will only allow a single isolation device between the Area EPS and all DER connecting to the Area
EPS at a customer’s premise. This single isolation device is required to allow the company to isolate
all DER at the premise with a single operation. The company may require this isolation device to be
properly fused for the size (ampacity) of the wires in a “line side tap” connection configuration.

A knife-blade switch that conforms with the National Electric Code and has a visible break/open is an
example of an appropriate isolation device for overhead installations. The Safety Disconnect Switch
required by the 2020 National Electric Code may serve as an appropriate manual isolation device in
some installations.

Are there specific models that people like / have had good luck with / recommend?

Thanks!

 

[zanydroid]

I hope someone posts a product link.

I think it’s not as complicated as you think.

There is no service rated requirement. You know the solar feeder circuit ampacity of your system. This is the main requirement besides the knife disconnect form factor

The AHJ/POCO asked for the platinum plated disconnect option, which is a knife disconnect, so there isn’t much option to save money. You can usually see from product pictures the size and terminal configuration of the inside and the switch configuration of the outside.

 

[zanydroid]

Also, I don’t think it is correct to call this a service disconnect. That would be the first means of disconnect after the utility meter.

 

[TechRider]

Also, I don’t think it is correct to call this a service disconnect. That would be the first means of disconnect after the utility meter.

That's exactly what I need though. They need a way to lock out my service after the meter to prevent me from back feeding in whatever situation they determine it's necessary. It has to be rated for my 200a service.

I'm not happy about it and I don't have a ton of space available where I have to install it.

 

[zanydroid]

That's exactly what I need though. They need a way to lock out my service after the meter to prevent me from back feeding in whatever situation they determine it's necessary. It has to be rated for my 200a service.

I'm not happy about it and I don't have a ton of space available where I have to install it.

It just says isolate the DER. DER = your solar. On my POCO and AHJ they were OK with a feeder breaker but the POCO’s canonical SLD has a disconnect. And actually that shows a separate disconnect from service disconnect, to isolate only the DER. They will exempt in many cities though.

Look for a SLD example of solar disconnect and you will see that it is not service equipment and below the main panel.

Are you doing a line side tap? If so then may have to be service rated, and this gets tricky because you still want a single N-G bond. I think line side taps suck so I forget about them a lot. In that case look for a 200A service rated fused disconnect switch, those will probably be $500-700

 

[zanydroid]

It would be very helpful to get a sample SLD with disconnect from your AHJ.

And the SLD of your current proposed system

 

[GuyG]

If space is short, see if they will approve an enclosed breaker like the one linked below. It’s rated for service entrance, has lockout capability, and is less than $200.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.ECCVH200R.html

 

[TechRider]

Thanks for the replies. They did say it had to be a knife style and lockable and that an external lockable door didn't work. My meter feeds directly to my ATS with a 200A breaker with a lockable door. I sent them pictures and they said that doesn't work. I am doing line side from my inverter, it's doing a pass-through for my whole panel. (Sol-Ark 15k.)

I don't really have an AHJ where I live. It basically says follow NEC 2017 and AEP's requirements basically require NEC 2020 so they're more stringent. I've asked them for a list of acceptable hardware and haven't gotten a response yet.

The really stupid part is I will have 2 disconnects within 2' of each other. Thankfully I already fixed the ATS to be my proper neutral/ground bond so if I need to move it up, I can easily do that.

Additionally, I may be incorrectly interchanging service disconnect / emergency disconnect.

 

[zanydroid]

OK, so your ATS is service rated

I don’t think that is considered line side, you are connecting load side of the ATS. Line side is between service disconnect and meter.

Are you installing SolArk with three way bypass switch? IMO that is a knife disconnect.

What about remove and sell the ATS, and use the SolArk as the ATS / gen start functionality for grid down state? And then use a service rated knife switch in place of ATS.

 

[TechRider]

I'd rather just leave the ATS in place, I've already got everything wired in and working well. Plus I like the idea of having the ATS to fully isolate the generator from the grid. My generator is a 24k so I have to hook it to the grid side anyway. It's configured to be controlled by the sol-ark so I'm not worried about how it operates.

I elected to skip the 3 way bypass. I struggled with that thought for quite a while but came down to the fact there would be very limited benefit to having it. My install location wouldn't have allowed me to use it in this case either as my inverter is not out by the meter.

 

[zanydroid]

Do you have a picture of the install / SLD of what you installed? That is easier than reading.

What was the reason you cannot simply put the disconnect on the feeder/ “tap” to your inverter input?

(Tap in quotes because that means a specific thing and I’m not sure if you strictly speaking have a tap, without the pictures or SLD).

 

[TechRider]

I'm not sure what SLD means... Here's a pic of the meter area.


My hope was to find something that I could put to the left of the meter and run from the meter box to the ATS and just tuck it in nicely. I just measured and it's only about 13.5" to the edge of the brick. So far everything I'm finding is ~18". I love that the ATS is even labeled emergency disconnect / service disconnect but that's not good enough.

 

[zanydroid]

SLD = Single Line Diagram. Sort of a specific kind of simplified schematic.

 

[zanydroid]

Maybe you can tuck it in to the right of the conduit that your underground service is coming up from.

 

[GuyG]

Unless you want to relocate pretty much everything, you’ll need to pull that ATS and replace it with either a manual DT switch or a disconnect.

 

[zanydroid]

Unless you want to relocate pretty much everything, you’ll need to pull that ATS and replace it with either a manual DT switch or a disconnect.

I think can jump either through the brick or with new conduit over the brick. 200A is going to need big conduit. Maybe lower profile to do two conduits instead of one, to fit the feeder conductors going to the disconnect

 

[Oldphile]

If space is short, see if they will approve an enclosed breaker like the one linked below. It’s rated for service entrance, has lockout capability, and is less than $200.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.ECCVH200R.html

That won't be accepted. In 2022 my installer installed this breaker. The utility company rejected it. They want a knife switch where you can see that the contacts are open. This is what they replaced it with.

 

[TechRider]

That won't be accepted. In 2022 my installer installed this breaker. The utility company rejected it. They want a knife switch where you can see that the contacts are open.

I agree because my ATS already does that and it was already rejected.