RV setup help

[Dirt2dad]

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• DIY Solar General Discussion

https://www.epochbatteries.com/

All in one hook up into existing RV​

• Thread starterDirt2dad
• Start dateMonday at 9:29 PM

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Dirt2dad​

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• Monday at 9:29 PM
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To anyone who may be able to help me with installing an MPP All in one into my RV, using the existing system. I've looked through quite a few threads, different concerns and schematics. Looking for any advice or schematics/scenarios that someone may have used and has had success with.


So you have an understanding as to what I'm planning.
MPP Solar 1012LV-MS (need to buy)
(2) Deep cycle 105 amp/hr in parallel (currently installed)
310W single solar panel (already have)

So I've been researching, while reading William Prowse -Mobile Solar Power book. I intend to wire my AIO as follows.
•Battery +/- with 4 awg wire to bus bars. •Inline 100 amp fuse off battery +(recommend style?)
•Bus bars to DC +/- on AIO.
•Shore power RV plug from from RV panel to AIO AC in.
•AIO AC out to RV AC panel
•Solar panel into solar panel port

That all being said, I have a few questions.
1. How do I determine wire size from bus bar to the DC fuse panel? And how to determine inline fuse size?
2. How to determine if I need and what size fuse on the "line" wire from the shore power?
3. Do you need an inline fuse on the positive wire from the solar panel hooking into the AIO? MC4 Inline fuse? If so, how to determine fuse?
4. Should I be adding a fuse between the AIO AC out to RV AC panel or can I just use the "main" breaker in my existing RV panel?
5. Do I need to add a ground from bus bar negative to RV trailer frame? How about adding the ground from AC panel to trailer frame?

I have run all the calculations as to what we use and what we need. We only use what we need, otherwise we're outside endlessly. My calculations get me to 923.8 WA, I rounded to 1000, and that's with my calculations being at their extremes. The photos are to illustrate what equipment I have, I have no intentions to run the large appliances unless hooked up to shore power, I setup an outdoor kitchen and cook with propane.

Thanks in advance for any help offered, or recommendations. I am new to this solar stuff, and the AIO will allow me just what I need for the little AC I'm looking for.

 

[thepartyhound]

When I first started researching what I wanted to do I was looking at AIO units. It seemed like a simple, cost effective solution. However the more I read the more I realized that most, if not all, of these AIO systems are chinese made and it seemed a roll of the dice. Now, I can't speak directly to the MPP unit under discussion. Maybe it is different than the AIO units I was looking at, but the ones I had seen were High Frequency inverters. The problem with them is that they are very picky about the power you supply to them for charging batteries; i.e. a generator. Most are not going to be very happy with a quiet compact Honda 2kw generator running at 80%. A low frequency Victron inverter/charger, however, will gobble up just about any power you want to throw its way with the added benefit of being able to limit how much current is being pulled from the generator or any other AC source. They are better at starting large loads, use less power at idle, are more reliable, and the best part about Victron is that their stuff JUST WORKS! Sure, you'll pay a little more up front, but the added peace of mind is worth it.

Also, you have used the term A/C a couple of times. That refers to Air Conditioning. "AC" refers to Alternating Current...your intention I think. At first reading I thought you were trying to build a system to run a small A/C unit. Details matter!

 

[Rednecktek]

That all being said, I have a few questions.

OK, bring it!

1. How do I determine wire size from bus bar to the DC fuse panel? And how to determine inline fuse size?

The wire size and fuses are based on the draw of the device, in this case the 1012LV's 1000w. 1000w / 12v = 83.3a, and add about 20% for overhead for surges and preventing nuisance trips brings you to 100a even. According to the Blue Sea Ampacity Chart that calls for 4AWG wire.

2. How to determine if I need and what size fuse on the "line" wire from the shore power?

Don't need one. A shore power connection will have its own breaker.

3. Do you need an inline fuse on the positive wire from the solar panel hooking into the AIO? MC4 Inline fuse? If so, how to determine fuse?

No. You only need fuses if you're paralleling 3 or more panels. For a single panel you could throw a breaker in line just to be able to "disconnect" the solar panel for troubleshooting or storage, but it's a tool at that point more than any kind of safety need.

4. Should I be adding a fuse between the AIO A/C out to RV A/C panel or can I just use the "main" breaker in my existing RV panel?

The MPP has breakers built into it's AC out already and your RV panel has one coming in. 2 is plenty.

5. Do I need to add a ground from bus bar negative to RV trailer frame? How about adding the ground from A/C panel to trailer frame?

This is a tough one...
One concern I'm seeing is you've got a charging loop goin in. With your current plan the 12v batteries will power the AIO that feeds the converter that charges the 12v batteries that power the AIO that feeds the converter that charges the batteries that... well, you see the issue.

The conversions that I've done and seen have a separate battery bank for the AIO and solar and don't use the house battery because of the looping issue, or replace the converter all together like I did and just install a breaker panel letting the AIO do all the work. All a converter really does is act as a DC fuse box and have a battery charger connected to the shore power input, so it can easily be replaced by an AIO which charges the battery and passes AC in from shore power. On my dad's trailer we're doing separate battery banks for the solar and the house battery and I'm just putting the AIO in between the AC in from shore power and the AC Out to the converter. The converter's charger will charge the house batteries, but the AIO isn't fed by them. The trailer just thinks it's always plugged into shore power.

Take a look through my thread, it might help make more sense.

 

[Dirt2dad]

Also, you have used the term A/C a couple of times. That refers to Air Conditioning. "AC" refers to Alternating Current...your intention I think. At first reading I thought you were trying to build a system to run a small A/C unit. Details matter!

Thank you for the advice, I mistakenly was using AC incorrectly!

 

[Dirt2dad]

OK, bring it!


The wire size and fuses are based on the draw of the device, in this case the 1012LV's 1000w. 1000w / 12v = 83.3a, and add about 20% for overhead for surges and preventing nuisance trips brings you to 100a even. According to the Blue Sea Ampacity Chart that calls for 4AWG wire.


Don't need one. A shore power connection will have its own breaker.


No. You only need fuses if you're paralleling 3 or more panels. For a single panel you could throw a breaker in line just to be able to "disconnect" the solar panel for troubleshooting or storage, but it's a tool at that point more than any kind of safety need.


The MPP has breakers built into it's AC out already and your RV panel has one coming in. 2 is plenty.


This is a tough one...
One concern I'm seeing is you've got a charging loop goin in. With your current plan the 12v batteries will power the AIO that feeds the converter that charges the 12v batteries that power the AIO that feeds the converter that charges the batteries that... well, you see the issue.

The conversions that I've done and seen have a separate battery bank for the AIO and solar and don't use the house battery because of the looping issue, or replace the converter all together like I did and just install a breaker panel letting the AIO do all the work. All a converter really does is act as a DC fuse box and have a battery charger connected to the shore power input, so it can easily be replaced by an AIO which charges the battery and passes AC in from shore power. On my dad's trailer we're doing separate battery banks for the solar and the house battery and I'm just putting the AIO in between the AC in from shore power and the AC Out to the converter. The converter's charger will charge the house batteries, but the AIO isn't fed by them. The trailer just thinks it's always plugged into shore power.

Take a look through my thread, it might help make more sense.

I forgot to mention, I was planning on disconnecting the stock converter, and hoping to use the AIO as my charger for the batteries? Thoughts..
Thanks for the help, great info!

 

[Rednecktek]

I forgot to mention, I was planning on disconnecting the stock converter, and hoping to use the AIO as my charger for the batteries? Thoughts..
Thanks for the help, great info!

Yup, that's exactly what I did in my camper. Take a look through the thread I linked, I replaced the stock converter panel with a DIN box and some breakers. The AIO does all the charging and all the AC output all the time, the shore power connection just plugs into the AC input of the AIO.

 

[Dirt2dad]

Yup, that's exactly what I did in my camper. Take a look through the thread I linked, I replaced the stock converter panel with a DIN box and some breakers. The AIO does all the charging and all the AC output all the time, the shore power connection just plugs into the AC input of the AIO.

I went through your attached thread. I see the DIN box with the breakers, my only question, and this is where I get lost, but why can't I just take from the AIO AC out and wire directly to the AC power control panel where the shore power is currently wired to? I plan on using the stock equipment (power control box), at the same time I would disconnect the converter.

If I need to build this DIN box, what do I need to know, or how do I proceed in doing so?

 

[Mkgough]

D

• DIY Solar General Discussion

https://www.epochbatteries.com/

All in one hook up into existing RV​

• Thread starterDirt2dad
• Start dateMonday at 9:29 PM

Unwatch
•••
D

Dirt2dad​

New Member​

• Monday at 9:29 PM
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #1

To anyone who may be able to help me with installing an MPP All in one into my RV, using the existing system. I've looked through quite a few threads, different concerns and schematics. Looking for any advice or schematics/scenarios that someone may have used and has had success with.


So you have an understanding as to what I'm planning.
MPP Solar 1012LV-MS (need to buy)
(2) Deep cycle 105 amp/hr in parallel (currently installed)
310W single solar panel (already have)

So I've been researching, while reading William Prowse -Mobile Solar Power book. I intend to wire my AIO as follows.
•Battery +/- with 4 awg wire to bus bars. •Inline 100 amp fuse off battery +(recommend style?)
•Bus bars to DC +/- on AIO.
•Shore power RV plug from from RV panel to AIO AC in.
•AIO AC out to RV AC panel
•Solar panel into solar panel port

That all being said, I have a few questions.
1. How do I determine wire size from bus bar to the DC fuse panel? And how to determine inline fuse size?
2. How to determine if I need and what size fuse on the "line" wire from the shore power?
3. Do you need an inline fuse on the positive wire from the solar panel hooking into the AIO? MC4 Inline fuse? If so, how to determine fuse?
4. Should I be adding a fuse between the AIO AC out to RV AC panel or can I just use the "main" breaker in my existing RV panel?
5. Do I need to add a ground from bus bar negative to RV trailer frame? How about adding the ground from AC panel to trailer frame?

I have run all the calculations as to what we use and what we need. We only use what we need, otherwise we're outside endlessly. My calculations get me to 923.8 WA, I rounded to 1000, and that's with my calculations being at their extremes. The photos are to illustrate what equipment I have, I have no intentions to run the large appliances unless hooked up to shore power, I setup an outdoor kitchen and cook with propane.

Thanks in advance for any help offered, or recommendations. I am new to this solar stuff, and the AIO will allow me just what I need for the little AC I'm looking for.

If you want 120v AC of any kind of load like an air conditioner heater, that model may struggle. You could go up to 24v to get more PV in and AC out then put in a drop down to 12v. I have a MPP Solar 2424LV that has a fuse box and a pair of voltage regulators to drop down to 12v for yard lights, some LED and to power my tracker. I will be upgrading my MPP for more PV to a 3024 for 250v PV in as I now have a tracker on my workshop where this lives and 145v PV in is too small for my 5 panels, so I am wasting one whole panel of PV energy. I could sell you mine cheap ;-) pics included. Then you can use 2-12v or 24v batteries. You will need a battery balancer to keep the batteries equal or you will have issues. Watts 24x7 has a 12v one for $28. Also look at a Solar Assistant monitoring so you can see all the stats, see pic. 5-200 panels optimally placed will charge this up pretty fast, long cable and pvc stands when you arrive to add on what is on your roof. I have 2-EG4 24v rack batteries being charged on it, powers my whole workshop great. AC in is wired separate to AC out, your shore power can go to the AC in, but 120v only, and check the amp max AC input so you don't overload it. And always fuse AC in and out.

 

[grizzzman]

I forgot to mention, I was planning on disconnecting the stock converter, and hoping to use the AIO as my charger for the batteries? Thoughts..
Thanks for the help, great info!

I just turned off the converter breaker. So if for any reason it can be activated if needed.

 

[Rednecktek]

I went through your attached thread. I see the DIN box with the breakers, my only question, and this is where I get lost, but why can't I just take from the AIO AC out and wire directly to the AC power control panel where the shore power is currently wired to? I plan on using the stock equipment (power control box), at the same time I would disconnect the converter.

If I need to build this DIN box, what do I need to know, or how do I proceed in doing so?

As long as you disconnect the converter then you are good to go. The issue I was worried about is if you have the stock converter charging the batteries that power the inverter that feeds the converter that charges the batteries you kill your batteries with a charging loop.

I just found it to be more space saving by having the DIN box of breakers to feed all my stuff than to have to disconnect the converter and have the larger factory box. You can see by the OSB adapter plate I made what the size difference between the factory box and my DIN box was, plus I have breakers I can reset rather than trying to get my fingers into the fuses.

When I do the inverter replacement in my dad's trailer I'll be taking the AC output of the inverter directly to the AC input of the existing converter box, but the house batteries and the inverter batteries are going to be 2 separate systems so there's no charging loop involved.