EG4 6500EX-48 capabilities vs. Sol-Ark 15k

[629658]

Look at his photos. When the sun comes up he charges his battery, then after the SOC is 100% he switches to grid export. Then once the sun drops below his load he goes back to battery until the Utility rate is cheapest. Then he purchase.

MAX $ smartness if you don't take into accoutn the cycling cost of the batteries.

Given what LFP can do I think he'll be ahead AND in the event of an outage he has a great amount of backup...

@jfpetesn do you have a generator? Instead of 240 split phase I'm thinking I'll just get a 48v DC 120v ac charger and then jack one or two of those into my sol ark. That would require me to use voltage mode instead of the fancy battery monitoring systems. What do you use for SOC and backup generator?

Yes I do have an 18kw generator attached to the Sol Ark. it’s really nice the way the Sol Ark runs the generator too. In the past power out generator started and ran the house at 3 gal/hr of LP. Now in power outage Sol Ark runs the house on solar and/or batteries until they are done. It then starts the generator and recharges the batteries (2 hrs approx) and shuts off. Pulls about 11 kw to charge. So I’ve gone from using 72 gallons of LP per 24 hours to 6 gallons of LP for the 2 hour charge. Absolutely perfect.

 

[629658]

Does your power company separate out "cost of energy" versus "cost of delivery" amounts and was the 38 cents for both or just the "cost of energy" ?

We are routinely charted 4X cents per kWh for both combined.

Yes they do separate it out. If we were on their fixed rate program they trade kWh for kWh. So if I sell 10 they credit me 10. With their TOU program our transactions are in dollars. So if I sell 10 and TOU rate is 6 cents at that hour I get a $0.60 credit on my bill which applies to my distribution, meter fees, and taxes. Win win. So when I’m selling my excess PV in the day especially in the summer months I get typically 0.12-0.14 cents for it. I charge on them at night for significantly less in the 0.02-0.045 cents range. Another win win. I expect we will have many more $0.00 utility bills in the future.

 

[629658]

Thanks.

Your battery drain rate looks pretty consistent.

I have my max battery drain set at 2500 watts. If we exceed that it goes on grid to get the overage. Usually for a few minutes while my wife hears up the oven. Only at night during the day it’s picked up by our PV production.

 

[629658]

Thanks.

Your battery drain rate looks pretty consistent.

I started this renovation of our older GT inverter. I had an idea how the Sol Ark worked but it’s so much slicker than I thought it would be. So far I’m very happy we pulled the trigger on the Sol Ark a little more money but it had all the features I knew we would utilize.

 

[629658]

Look at his photos. When the sun comes up he charges his battery, then after the SOC is 100% he switches to grid export. Then once the sun drops below his load he goes back to battery until the Utility rate is cheapest. Then he purchase.

MAX $ smartness if you don't take into accoutn the cycling cost of the batteries.

Given what LFP can do I think he'll be ahead AND in the event of an outage he has a great amount of backup...

@jfpetesn do you have a generator? Instead of 240 split phase I'm thinking I'll just get a 48v DC 120v ac charger and then jack one or two of those into my sol ark. That would require me to use voltage mode instead of the fancy battery monitoring systems. What do you use for SOC and backup generator?

I do not have closed loop communications with my batteries and the Sol Ark. I do have a Victron Smart Shunt in line mostly for reference. The Sol Ark has an intelligent algorithm and except for a couple of times it’s within 5% SOC to what my battery BMS reports. I did purchase Solar Assistant and it reads my Sol Ark information and it communicates with my battery BMS. So I can see what my actual SOC is. The Sol Ark does a very decent job of tracking with my BMS without communicating.

 

[G20]

I started this renovation of our older GT inverter. I had an idea how the Sol Ark worked but it’s so much slicker than I thought it would be. So far I’m very happy we pulled the trigger on the Sol Ark a little more money but it had all the features I knew we would utilize.

Thanks for your posts.

I am a newbie on a learning curve trying to come up to speed on all of the market players, products and system features and variables. I was excited about the new crop of AIO's until I found out about their operational burden rates. I am now trying to identify alternatives without such a hungry runtime overhead before laying out any cash. Need to investigate the SolArk spec sheets.

 

[629658]

The pict doesn't show the hours from 3pm to midnight (if I am reading the X-Axis correctly) so it is hard to see what is going on during that period.

The reason why I asked, I saw a similar configuration where the person's AIO unit had a high overhead in addition to limited configurations for limiting backfeeding into the grid from his battery bank based on time of day/PV generation intervals. He was concerned it would prematurely shorten the life of the battery bank (most expensive part of his system) as well as not have enough battery to cover the night hours (or power outage). His solution was to have his AIO shut off and use another more efficient unit to power the house from the battery bank during the non-solar hours and turn the AIO back on during PV hours.

He was not doing the TOU thing to charge his batteries in the middle of the night.

@G20 the Trophy batteries we purchased have a 10 yr non prorated warranty. I guess that’s great if they remain in business that long.

 

[629658]

That is AMAZING thank you so much for sharing that! I am using WE-Energies. I will ask, but I don't expect they will give me the hourly rates like that.

Does the Sol Ark let you change Time of use settings from the phone app? Your chart looks like a mobile screen shot dream. I'd certainly understand purchasing more batteries.

I found out I only have a 100 AMP grid feed to my house. I'm getting a new electrical panel and could see myself pulling 200 AMPS. Rather than change the service I wonder if the sol ark can take the 100 AMPS from the gird, add the max battery invert power bringing it to 150 AMPS and then if we have a lot of sun, max to 200 amps? Ditto for the generator input (where I could add more solar).

Yes I change my TOU settings from my phone anywhere in the world.

 

[G20]

@G20 the Trophy batteries we purchased have a 10 yr non prorated warranty. I guess that’s great if they remain in business that long.

Their batteries are on my short list from what I have seen. Don't know why they don't make the 280AH or 305AH versions.

Staying in business that long in today's economy is a big IFF. I see high turn over in this business which makes long-term warranties somewhat intangible (for the lack of a better term). Especially when seeing someone like LG getting out of the panel business.

 

[629658]

Thanks for your posts.

I am a newbie on a learning curve trying to come up to speed on all of the market players, products and system features and variables. I was excited about the new crop of AIO's until I found out about their operational burden rates. I am now trying to identify alternatives without such a hungry runtime overhead before laying out any cash. Need to investigate the SolArk spec sheets.

Well start where I did. Go onto YouTube look up engineer775 and Gain Solar. They have many videos with tons of information. In fact I paid a very small fee to William Valentine at Gain Solar to be my answer man. He answered every question and made his recommendations. If I became stumped he helped me out. Scott Hunt( engineer 775) also was a lot of help. You see my original solar installer bailed out on me so I decided to do it myself. I hired a local electrician to make all the 220v hookups but I did all the rest myself. I did a tremendous amount of research in selecting my equipment. I know there are a million ways to skin this cat but I wanted an all in one that didn’t require an electrical degree to install and operate. I haven’t laid a hand on it since installation. It does it all without any interaction from me. The only thing I do every evening is check tomorrows TOU rates and adjust my charge time from the app on my phone. Sweet!!

 

[629658]

Their batteries are on my short list from what I have seen. Don't know why they don't make the 280AH or 305AH versions.

Staying in business that long in today's economy is a big IFF. I see high turn over in this business which makes long-term warranties somewhat intangible (for the lack of a better term). Especially when seeing someone like LG getting out of the panel business.

Agree. I am very happy with their level of support, build quality and shipping times.

 

[G20]

Well start where I did. Go onto YouTube look up engineer775 and Gain Solar. They have many videos with tons of information. In fact I paid a very small fee to William Valentine at Gain Solar to be my answer man. He answered every question and made his recommendations. If I became stumped he helped me out. Scott Hunt( engineer 775) also was a lot of help. You see my original solar installer bailed out on me so I decided to do it myself. I hired a local electrician to make all the 220v hookups but I did all the rest myself. I did a tremendous amount of research in selecting my equipment. I know there are a million ways to skin this cat but I wanted an all in one that didn’t require an electrical degree to install and operate. I haven’t laid a hand on it since installation. It does it all without any interaction from me. The only thing I do every evening is check tomorrows TOU rates and adjust my charge time from the app on my phone. Sweet!!

Thanks for the leads.

I would like to DIY as much as possible to manage costs, understand/debug/maintain the system and know I am getting what I expect (expect only what you inspect).

I have rewired a few houses from the meter onwards, upgraded main panels, added sub panels, wired motors and transformers and feel pretty comfortable with 120/240VAC. With good instructions, should be able to handle the programming after making HVAC, building control and embedded software systems in a previous life. High voltage DC strings would be a new experience.

 

[byteharmony]

Honestly most newer homes have 200 amp service standard. Early 50s & 60s homes used to have 100 amp service.

I wouldn't call my home newer... the term classic is a better fit.

Whatever you have the Sol Ark will use and pass through. What I find is we never even get close to using 200 Amps. Biggest load I have seen is probably around 10-11 kW draw at any one time. I am not an electrician so I’d check with a qualified one.

I hope this is the case. It is one of my sticking points in my diagrams for permitting right now. With a 100 AMP service if the sol ark will pass through battery it boosts my output to my home to 150 AMPS max. If it's during the day and the sun is at peak my 14kw of panels should push the remaining 50 AMPS that would max out the load draw at 200 AMPS.

While you're not seeing those higher draws in your home, add an electric car or two, some amazing hot tub stuff, central air units, and a incredible beautiful woman who wants to bake cakes and cook on the stove top while the AC is on and you'll quickly find your loads growing towards 200 AMPS.

I have my max battery drain set at 2500 watts. If we exceed that it goes on grid to get the overage. Usually for a few minutes while my wife hears up the oven. Only at night during the day it’s picked up by our PV production.

Is this the answer to my question above. Load goes to PV first, then battery, then grid JUST for overage. That would give me the full 200 AMPS AND if I needed more I could add more on the generator port.... would it spin up the generator just to handle a load?

I was going with EG4 and thanks to you I've shifted gears to Trophy! My only concern right now about Trophy is the laser welded bus bars... maybe a repair could involve cutting the bus bar??

Their batteries are on my short list from what I have seen. Don't know why they don't make the 280AH or 305AH versions.

Staying in business that long in today's economy is a big IFF. I see high turn over in this business which makes long-term warranties somewhat intangible (for the lack of a better term). Especially when seeing someone like LG getting out of the panel business.

I'm sticking to 100 Ah, 100 lbs is enough for me to lift.

 

[629658]

Their batteries are on my short list from what I have seen. Don't know why they don't make the 280AH or 305AH versions.

Staying in business that long in today's economy is a big IFF. I see high turn over in this business which makes long-term warranties somewhat intangible (for the lack of a better term). Especially when seeing someone like LG getting out of the panel business.

I know Dan started having some issues with the Catyl cell batteries so he isn’t using them until they figure out what the issues are. These eve cells are working well for us. Check out the operational specs on the Sol Ark. they are at the top for operational efficiencies. Check out the Sol Ark channel on YouTube they have several comparison videos.

 

[byteharmony]

For us TOU is a real game changer. We have had our 15k in for almost 3 weeks. We currently have approx 22.5 kWh of storage. What I find is between solar and storage we use zero grid until about 0200 when we hit 40% SOC. Our average house load is around 1200-1500 watts and I have it limited to 2500 watts from batteries. With this we are still selling to grid 25-30 kWh per day on sunny days. Weather is beautiful lately so we haven’t had any HVAC running these past 3 weeks. We have geothermal and it averages 2200 watts running so when we add that a second set of batteries will be needed for sure and a third set would probably get us to where we need to be 65 kWh.

Now for TOU. Here is our rates today. I get them everyday after 1730. So I just look for the cheapest couple of hours to buy our power. Mostly 2.5-3.5 cents per kWh. Takes 1.5 hours and about 17 kWh to charge the batteries. As you can see we are selling back starting about 1000. So our utility credits us back dollars not kWh. We receive whatever the hourly price they are charging. Today about 6.3 cents per kWh. So we are buying at 3 cents and selling our excess for 6 cents. For our billing period we are already -420 kWh to the utility. So we are going to have a net negative electric bill.

It’s working beautifully and as we expected. Really looking forward to seeing our bill this month. Think of it this way we are choosing to purchase our daily power all at once and when it’s at sale prices.

Quick follow up, missing your image .

The way you have your SOL ARK 15k Configured during the day Loads draw in this order:
1. PV
2. Battery
3. Grid

So in your case:
15kw - from solar (50ish amps)
12kw - from battery (50A solar + 50 amps battery= 100 A)
200 A Grid feed - limit hit of 200 AMPS AC out of the sol ark, limiting this feed to 100 AMPS (which is all that I have).

Technically for the sol ark I think it's in this order:

So in your case:
24kw - from generator
15kw - from solar
12kw - from battery
Grid feed

 

[629658]

Quick follow up, missing your image .

The way you have your SOL ARK 15k Configured during the day Loads draw in this order:
1. PV
2. Battery
3. Grid

So in your case:
15kw - from solar (50ish amps)
12kw - from battery (50A solar + 50 amps battery= 100 A)
200 A Grid feed - limit hit of 200 AMPS AC out of the sol ark, limiting this feed to 100 AMPS (which is all that I have).

Technically for the sol ark I think it's in this order:

So in your case:
24kw - from generator
15kw - from solar
12kw - from battery
Grid feed

You are correct about my load priority. PV then battery then grid

I also have grid shaving active. Our distribution charges are based on my monthly peak draw in our billing cycle. I’m still playing with it but I have set it at 12kW now. Meaning if my load exceeds 12 kW while on grid it will add battery to make up the total load. Once I find the magic number no more paying $10 distribution fee for 500 kWh used for the month. This is a really nice feature and you can see it at work at my 0200 battery charge cycle. I’m sure I would pull more kW during charge if it didn’t have it throttled back to 12 kW.

I have an
18 kW gen
13.2 kW Solar
12 kW Battery
But you are correct about the Sol Ark capacities. You can have up to 19k total Solar with som AC coupling but it also says 15k max PV to batts and AC.

Here is yesterday’s graph

 

[byteharmony]

Interesting, your peak draw is charging at night.

I wonder, if you limited your charge rate in the sol ark and then started drawing at midnight if your peak draw would fall like a rock, your battery life span would increase significantly and load on your system would improve across the board (long life span). Spend pennies to save dollars?

Of course I know no details about peak draw.

So glad to hear my sol ark is going to improve my 100 amp service to 200 :-D.

You may also be interested in this thread if you plan on having more battery toys .

using wire length and awg as charging and discharging limiter

Question: Is there any reason this is a bad idea? Inspired by this guys recycled AC Panel: Does anyone have any experience with limiting charge current and discharge current by wire gauge and length? An example of this is using 14 AWG wire to directly connect two different LIFEPO4 batteries...

diysolarforum.com

 

[629658]

I have thought about that and I certainly could limit my Amps charging and spread it out longer. Plan on speaking with my battery guy and get his opinion. Good idea anyway.

 

[byteharmony]

I have thought about that and I certainly could limit my Amps charging and spread it out longer. Plan on speaking with my battery guy and get his opinion. Good idea anyway.

I asked Dan about the AMP listings on the web site. I thought 100 AMPS seemed heavy given that EG4 batteries recommend 30. Dan said 100 would be pushing it and he'd recommend 50. He later said 75 wasn't terrible. I'd stick with the 50 and given the likely similarity between the cells in EG4 and trophy batteries 30 wouldn't be a bad choice either. I wonder if at 30 you could get still get the full charge during those cheap hours, if not, push it a little until you do .

 

[629658]

Interesting, your peak draw is charging at night.

I wonder, if you limited your charge rate in the sol ark and then started drawing at midnight if your peak draw would fall like a rock, your battery life span would increase significantly and load on your system would improve across the board (long life span). Spend pennies to save dollars?

Of course I know no details about peak draw.

So glad to hear my sol ark is going to improve my 100 amp service to 200 :-D.

You may also be interested in this thread if you plan on having more battery toys .

using wire length and awg as charging and discharging limiter

Question: Is there any reason this is a bad idea? Inspired by this guys recycled AC Panel: Does anyone have any experience with limiting charge current and discharge current by wire gauge and length? An example of this is using 14 AWG wire to directly connect two different LIFEPO4 batteries...

diysolarforum.com

Spoke with Dan at Trophy regarding my charge rates and time.

185 Amps, 92.5 amps per battery, is very easy on our batteries, You cold charge them faster if you wish as this is .4C which is very easy on the batteries. (92,5/230 = .40217301 = .4C)

40% DoD is also great.

115 Amps per battery would be .5C

So looks like I’m good where I sit.