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Lion Energy Safari UT 1300 - $699 @ Costco

Well, I found the issue. The UT1300 comes with screw-on battery posts pre-installed from the factory (Lion also includes other hardware that screws into the battery's top plates). I unscrewed the posts and noticed an oily film on the top plates, which I wiped off. Re-installed the posts and connected my charger. . .seems to be working fine now. I surmise that the "oil" was insulating the posts and preventing the smart charger from doing its thing.
 
I bought three for my RV. They are really light and the charge up lights are nice. I’ll buy a couple more if they come up again for that price. Company has been responsive to my questions, even on a weekend. They are package extremely well, in fact I used some of it to wrap around the batteries to help insulate and reduce vibration. I used a 4 amp battery minder from Costco to charge the first time. Took about 16 hours, but they charged up just fine.
 
Well, I found the issue. The UT1300 comes with screw-on battery posts pre-installed from the factory (Lion also includes other hardware that screws into the battery's top plates). I unscrewed the posts and noticed an oily film on the top plates, which I wiped off. Re-installed the posts and connected my charger. . .seems to be working fine now. I surmise that the "oil" was insulating the posts and preventing the smart charger from doing its thing.

Do you have an idea how long your 10A charger would take to charge from say 50% to 100%?
 
Do you have an idea how long your 10A charger would take to charge from say 50% to 100%?
A long time. . .Lion mentioned 7 hours or so. I don't plan on using the G7200 to charge this battery. . .it was more of a test to check the battery (so I could exchange if defective). The battery will be permanently mounted in my SUV, connected to a Redarc BCDC1240 and hopefully a solar panel.
 
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I’ve been having issues with mine... charging from a go power ic3000 I keep getting over voltage errors... according to go power the mossfets aren’t big enough?

they bulk charge ok but I had to turn down my float voltage. So I can’t get them to charge to 14.6 only about 13.6. Kinda disappointing.
 

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I’ve been having issues with mine... charging from a go power ic3000 I keep getting over voltage errors... according to go power the mossfets aren’t big enough?

they bulk charge ok but I had to turn down my float voltage. So I can’t get them to charge to 14.6 only about 13.6. Kinda disappointing.
13.6 is fully charged for a 12 volt lifepo. The 14.6 is the bulk charge voltage (pushing in) as they get full it should throttle back. Once it stops charging these will settle at 13.6 What is your float? It should be set low enough so they don't keep charging as they don't require a float
 
Yeah, only lasted a few weeks. They pulled down everything afterwards.

Looks like they did something similar last November, so if you're not in a hurry, they might pop back up.

Back on sale at Costco til 7/05/2020
$749 for 1 and $1399 for two?
 
For those asking about the 45% > 85% RH specs, I asked Lion Energy and they said, quote:

LE: "The humidity issue is pretty minor. We have customers in Texas, Georgia, Florida and other humid states and not problems. With some airflow, you won't have any problems. You can put the batteries under the stairs of the coach with no problem."

I also asked about recommended charge current:

LE: "You can charge up to 100 amps or 1.0C with no problems. The manual just mentions that to maximize life cycles and life span, 45 to 55 amps is the sweet spot. A lot of people will set the parameters from 90% to 10% to maximize life cycles. If you are wanting to maximize amp hours, 100% to empty is not a problem as well. It just depends on what you would like to do."

Follow up response:

LE: "The low humidity is not an issue at all. So anything under 45 RH is okay."

***Charging from alternator***:

LE: "If you are charging off your alternator, you will need to use a DC to DC charger such as the Redarc model 1225D to charge the batteries and protect the alternator."

That is something that all sellers' websites that I've seen avoid mentioning. They all say "plug and play" or "drop-in replacement". Yeah, not so much. I assume they are focused on selling batteries and they know that if they tell potential buyers that they will need a DC to DC charger and possibly a new converter/charger they will lose sales.

Question -- when the LE rep says "protect the alternator" is that because the batteries rely on the charger to control the current, and without any external regulation they will each take the max they can get, up to 100A -- which would push the alternator to full output and hold it there?
 
OK, I talked myself into it -- I just ordered a pair from Costco!

I didn't want to wait until the last day of the sale and find they were sold out.

I'm almost certain they will work out fine, but if not, Costco is good about returns.

The only thing that gives me a little hesitation are the terminals. Here's a good YouTube video -- I think the guy is a member here:

Lion Energy 1300 VS 1200 and Why I Dislike the Terminals

I have #4/0 welding cable feeding my inverter and the battery terminals just aren't made for the lugs I used. I'm sure I can make it work though.
 
Lithium batteries are NOT "plug and play" or "drop in"!

I found some info and a test video from Victron about the problems with attempting to charge LiFeSO4 batteries directly off of an alternator. You may find it interesting:

Careful – Alternator Charging Lithium (or how to not blow up your alternator):
https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/07/careful-alternator-charging-lithium/

That certainly reinforces what Lion Energy said about using a DC to DC charger to protect the alternator!

Any RV that utilizes a "battery combiner" or "boost" relay that ties the chassis and coach batteries together when the engine is running (which is almost all RVs) must have a DC to DC charger to avoid premature alternator failure.

No doubt the vendors do not want to advertise that fact because it will cut into their sales.
 
? If you do a search that subject has been discussed in length in many posts here before.
Take some time to review them. ✌️
Also you mentioned “that guy” in your other post.
That’s Will Prowse the creator of this forum. ?
 
A couple notes on the last few posts.

With regard to the charging current, remember that these numbers are per battery. If you have 2 in parallel, the a 1C charge rate is 200 amps and the "sweet spot" for 2 in parallel is 90-110 amps. So with multiple batteries in parallel, there is not much concern over too much charging current.

I think the terminal thing on the Lion Energy batteries is a bit overblown. The job of the terminal is primarily electrical in nature, not mechanical. Will has clarified that it is not a current carrying concern, just that he prefers the overkill blade terminals, and the more robust, heavier case on the BB. I would upgrade to more appropriate bolts than the included wing nut bolts and torque the terminals carefully per Lion Energy's instructions (12 ft-lbs in my manual.) I would also avoid hanging any heavy items off of them and secure heavy cables rather than letting them hang from the battery.

Alternator charging, which is relatively simple in the Lead Acid world, is obviously much more complex with LiFePO4, drop-in style or not. The question I keep coming back to is: How badly is it needed? I generally drive in the daytime and where I drive is not frequently in the shade, so the solar panels will be charging the batteries, running the fridge, etc., while I am driving. If I'm parked and dealing with a stretch of cloudy days, I'd much rather run my generator for a couple hours than run my engine on high idle for the same amount of time. The main drive engine of a vehicle with an alternator is not the most efficient tool for stationary charging.
I've decided to build my system for now without alternator charging and just cap and stow the current wire coming from the isolater in case I change my mind after I've used the setup for a while and determined if alternator charging would provide meaningful benefit to me. If I find myself arriving places with depleted batteries on a regular basis, I'll consider adding DC-DC to my setup.

Chris W
 
A couple notes on the last few posts.

With regard to the charging current, remember that these numbers are per battery. If you have 2 in parallel, the a 1C charge rate is 200 amps and the "sweet spot" for 2 in parallel is 90-110 amps. So with multiple batteries in parallel, there is not much concern over too much charging current.

I think the terminal thing on the Lion Energy batteries is a bit overblown. The job of the terminal is primarily electrical in nature, not mechanical. Will has clarified that it is not a current carrying concern, just that he prefers the overkill blade terminals, and the more robust, heavier case on the BB. I would upgrade to more appropriate bolts than the included wing nut bolts and torque the terminals carefully per Lion Energy's instructions (12 ft-lbs in my manual.) I would also avoid hanging any heavy items off of them and secure heavy cables rather than letting them hang from the battery.

Alternator charging, which is relatively simple in the Lead Acid world, is obviously much more complex with LiFePO4, drop-in style or not. The question I keep coming back to is: How badly is it needed? I generally drive in the daytime and where I drive is not frequently in the shade, so the solar panels will be charging the batteries, running the fridge, etc., while I am driving. If I'm parked and dealing with a stretch of cloudy days, I'd much rather run my generator for a couple hours than run my engine on high idle for the same amount of time. The main drive engine of a vehicle with an alternator is not the most efficient tool for stationary charging.
I've decided to build my system for now without alternator charging and just cap and stow the current wire coming from the isolater in case I change my mind after I've used the setup for a while and determined if alternator charging would provide meaningful benefit to me. If I find myself arriving places with depleted batteries on a regular basis, I'll consider adding DC-DC to my setup.

Chris W

Your plan certainly makes sense for your situation. Sounds reasonable to me.

In our case, we DO rely on alternator charging. We have a modest 200W solar setup, but frequently boondock, and use park campgrounds, in the woods. So much of the time we could have 600W or 800W of solar and it wouldn't make a difference. Luckily, we tend to be travelers more than campers, so relying on the alternator to charge our 2 Crown CR260s generally works fairly well, although I've noticed that even if we drive hundreds of miles they never really get a full charge. I assume that's because the Sprinter chassis voltage is lower than normal, at about 14V (+/- 0.1V). Also, the cable Winnebago used between the chassis and coach batteries is #1 and/or #2 gauge, so there is voltage drop across it.

So concerns about the load on the alternator aside, it seems that a DC to DC charger would do a better job than the existing straight connection.

A note on solar: I've been into renewable energy since the 1970s. I like to see solar used wherever it's practical. It clearly works well for some people, in some areas of the country. For others, not so much. In a best-case scenario -- summer in the Sun Belt -- people report being able to rely 100% on solar, and often say their batteries are recharged by early afternoon. Of course, a lot depends on their energy usage. For people in areas like the Pacific NW and places with a lot of cloud cover -- or anywhere, if they camp in the woods -- it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

I doubt many people routinely discharge 2 or more UT1300s every day, but charging a pair of UT1300s from close to 0% SOC up to 100% takes a large PV system and a lot of sun! Definitely doable, but only under the right conditions.

You said:

"... I'd much rather run my generator for a couple hours than run my engine on high idle for the same amount of time. The main drive engine of a vehicle with an alternator is not the most efficient tool for stationary charging."

Absolutely!

You wrote:

"So with multiple batteries in parallel, there is not much concern over too much charging current."

I'm not sure I follow. Two UT1300s in parallel will take up to 200A. That's more than the max rating of our alternator, which is 180A.

I haven't received the batteries yet, but I tend to agree with you about the terminals. They appear a bit cheesy, but they will do the job. I'm not overly concerned about it, but I am looking for ideas to lessen the stress on them. I noticed in the YouTube videos that internally, the UT1300s have multiple smaller gauge cables connected to each terminal. That's a good idea. I may do something like that. Run the existing #4/0 cables to remote lugs, and then connect to the batteries using several small cables for neg(-) and pos(+).
 
I jumped on this deal and am planning to configure 12 of them in an s4p3 configuration to get 48v. While the batteries individually have BMS’s do I need a BMS for each series as well? Any concern about individual batteries coming out of balance with the rest of the array?

Any advice is appreciated, and apologies if this isn’t the right place to ask.
 
I jumped on this deal and am planning to configure 12 of them in an s4p3 configuration to get 48v. While the batteries individually have BMS’s do I need a BMS for each series as well? Any concern about individual batteries coming out of balance with the rest of the array?

Any advice is appreciated, and apologies if this isn’t the right place to ask.

Twelve (12) UT 1300s?! Damn! What are you installing them in?

I'm just learning about lithium batteries myself, so I can't help you, but there are a lot of sharp people here who can.

You may get an answer in this thread, but if you don't, you might try starting a new thread with a title like, "Connecting 12 Lion UT 1300 batteries in series/parallel. Potential issues?" Something like that should get some attention. It isn't every day someone installs 12 lithium batteries!
 
Thanks for the quick reply, will take your advice and start a new thread.

To answer your question about use, I’m building a 100% off grid home in rainy Hawaii. I’m overbuilding the capacity to account for extended days without sunshine and know that it’s not wise to add additional batteries to the array later, so I’m hopefully building more than I’ll really need.
 
Thanks for the quick reply, will take your advice and start a new thread.

To answer your question about use, I’m building a 100% off grid home in rainy Hawaii. I’m overbuilding the capacity to account for extended days without sunshine and know that it’s not wise to add additional batteries to the array later, so I’m hopefully building more than I’ll really need.

Gotcha -- sounds cool!

I didn't mean to suggest that you had to start a new thread, but you'll probably get more input that way.

Good luck with your system! :cool:
 
Just bumping this back up - Costco is again selling 2-packs of the UT1300 for $1399 shipped. I just picked up another pair - I've been happy with the ones I picked up last time they had these on sale. I know DIY is cheaper - but the form-factor, warranty, and overall specs make this a pretty good deal at $0.52/wh.

They also have a 2-pack of UT700 (56ah) for $729 - which I think is actually a smidge cheaper per watt-hour.


 

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