diy solar

diy solar

the rapidly changing inverter landscape

Vigo said:
That's the main reason i went with 2x Growatt 5ks and an autotransformer back when i built my setup. My transformer is a little undersize so i put cooling fans on it and definitely well exceeded 3kw of 120vac load on numerous occasions. All i would need to do up to 10kw of 120vac loads is a bigger transformer, which is cheaper than 2x new inverters.
Click to expand...
For me, this setup works very well Off-Grid and its scalable.
 
1201 said:
from what I understand, the xw software is pretty buggy and theyve had , what, a decade, to fix it?
:oops::p
Click to expand...
I hear you. Part of the issue is not JUST bogginess, it is understanding how all these different setting affect each other. There may well be a way to make the inverters do what I want them to do, but without documentation that clearly explains the various functionality they support and how the different setting will affect that function, it seems like I am blindly "pushing buttons" in a trial and error like fashion trying to come up with something that actually works.
 
Zwy said:
In a few months, there might be some big changes in pricing and features. 10Kw split phase inverters coming into the pipeline that can be stacked. SRNE and Midnite come to mind. Some are already here like the NDX sold by Watts247 that may have the bugs worked out.

If EG4 had a 10Kw off grid inverter like the 6000XP that could be stacked, I might consider it.
Click to expand...
Why not just stack 6000xps?
 
I would point out that the next evolution in inverters will probably be voltage range. More high voltage inverters (300-500 volts) and more inverters that can work over the sodium ion voltage range (2:1.)
 
1201 said:
from what I understand, the xw software is pretty buggy and theyve had , what, a decade, to fix it?
:oops::p
Click to expand...
To be honest, the bugs came with the XW Pro. Before that with the XW+ 5548 and 6848 we put tons out and they were pretty much rock solid! Most of those (probably hundreds) installs are still working today. Some of the XWs that I installed are probably going on 10 years old now. Even the Pro has most bugs sorted out now though!

For an off-grid setup, the XWs are very hard to beat! Split phase, solid surge, great continuous output, awesome gen start options with the AGS.... I could go on for a while! Shoot, I have seen a double stack 6848 setup humming along with 7-7.2kW load on each inverter and it held it and ran with it for probably a good half hour or longer and never shut down! Try that with a new AIO and I don't think it would go long until they would overload! I doubt even the 15K would overperform like that for that length of time!

But once you start getting grid-interactive the AIOs just pull everything together nicely, as far as setting up the system goes. But, to be honest, I think they can be just as buggy as an "old clunky" XW sometimes! It takes some pretty serious programming to be able to make everything work together smoothly all the time!

Probably a big reason that Schneider is not changing much (at least in terms of firmware) on the Pros, is because they have an AIO inverter now as well. (Well, I guess their site still says coming soon.) Now, that would be a proprietary, high voltage battery, type of unit though.... I'm not interested in something like that to be honest! It does have 4x mppts, but only at ~16A, if I recall correctly. And if you were to ask about surge capability, they would probably say "surge.... what's that?" 😆 Also, there is no screen whatsoever, so you need to use the app to see what is happening. Definitely not off-grid friendly!

1711393566370.png
1711393644076.png

The Schneider specs do say surge: 15.4kW, but I would need to see it to believe it. And I'm also sure that single leg surge is limited to half of that. Pretty sure it's a HF inverter.
 
billvon said:
I would point out that the next evolution in inverters will probably be voltage range. More high voltage inverters (300-500 volts) and more inverters that can work over the sodium ion voltage range (2:1.)
Click to expand...
Not 300-500vDC but I notice the WZRELB has up to 110vDC.
 

Attachments

  • 1711394022031.png
    1711394022031.png
    313.9 KB · Views: 10
I recently commissioned a Sunny Island with its original 2007 firmware. Would need an update only if I wanted BMS communication, but I have AGM.

Midnight Rosie looks good, split-phase or single phase, HF, 8kW continuous, some 16kW to 20kW surge.

It is the fancy features of grid support, time shifting, peak clipping that require new software.
 
wheisenburg said:
I hear you. Part of the issue is not JUST bogginess, it is understanding how all these different setting affect each other. There may well be a way to make the inverters do what I want them to do, but without documentation that clearly explains the various functionality they support and how the different setting will affect that function, it seems like I am blindly "pushing buttons" in a trial and error like fashion trying to come up with something that actually works.
Click to expand...
Such great hardware, thwarted by bad software. 😡
 
Hedges said:
I recently commissioned a Sunny Island with its original 2007 firmware. Would need an update only if I wanted BMS communication, but I have AGM.

Midnight Rosie looks good, split-phase or single phase, HF, 8kW continuous, some 16kW to 20kW surge.

It is the fancy features of grid support, time shifting, peak clipping that require new software.
Click to expand...
Those things are important now that batteries are affordable and people want to use them instead of save them. I LOVE my sunny islands but I'm likely going to be changing them for something more modern.

They work great as off grid inverters, excellent. They even work great as grid tied "keep batteries charged inverter" but having to turn the grid on and off daily is already getting old and it's only been a 4 months lol(first world problems).

I need an inverter that will 1: use pv and when pv is unavailable use the battery until its low before switching to the grid and 2, use current transformers to support the main house loads. This is not as big a deal as I only pull about 7kwh from the grid on average but I would prefer that to be zero.
 
Maybe European model 8.0H SI will do time shift and peak shave.
Commanding different voltage targets could do it.

What I would like to do is AC couple lithium battery with SBS, use that for time shifting and to keep SI + AGM floating at night if grid down. Problem is I think it bricked one of my SB, and don't know yet if it can adjust charging, not just discharging, based on frequency-watts.

If I don't work out the issues, I'll use SBS + LG RESU-10H + WattNode strictly grid-tied. Keep SI + AGM + SB for grid-backup.

I think SBSE + ABU (or whatever they call the compatible model) will do what these other AIO you're interested in do. But for twice the money, and half the surge capability. 15kW PV, 7.7kW inverter, 10kW battery charger. Wimpy 9kW surge.

Updated firmware and SI could be all things to all people (with deep enough pockets.) Possibly external Command and Control could accomplish it. But really all in one box is what we want.
 
I have a (actually 2) cheap Chinesium Solis inverter - they do what I want rather well and are very controllable to customize them to do what I want.

Time will tell whether they last 5, 10 or 15 years (coming up for 2 years as I write). There have been so many sold in the UK that I suspect I will be able to buy a "pre-loved" old one down the line if mine gives up prematurely. 🤞

I suspect that Sunsynk/Deye/Sol-Ark are in the same category.
 
Hedges said:
I think "saving money" was different from saving money.

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.
Click to expand...
Who's taking "The Wife" for a trade in? It might be time for my upgrade. :ROFLMAO:
 
Hedges said:
But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.
Click to expand...
There is always excitement with new features over the "boring" old model that does what it always has done 💋👠👗🏝️
 
1201 said:
about a year ago when I joined, it was the Schneider xw pro that was popular for low frequency, and the growatts and voltronics were popular for high frequency off grid.

Now I hear almost no mention of them. That's how quickly the landscape is changing. Today 6000xp is extremely popular and we are not talking about auto transformers any longer.

18kpv has joined the solark 15k conversation for whole home use, and there are at least 4 or 5 brand new grid interactive inverters coming out this year that did not even exist last year.

this industry changes FAST
Click to expand...
Maybe, but in 2012 when I set up my primary off grid system I chose an SMA Sunny Island.

In 2024 I would choose the same inverter..

Some things change - some stay the same.
 
Hedges said:
I think "saving money" was different from saving money.

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.
Click to expand...
The song begins to play. "I was tired of my lady, we'd been together too long.... Do you like Piña Coladas?"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Inverter Selection for Off-Grid Home
Replies
14
Views
986
BlindBadger
B
Back
Top