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Continuing DIY or give up DIY to buy already assembled battery?

I will weigh them when I get home next week. But my 280Ah rack batteries do come with wheels. 🙂

$1070 each.

I also got one of these at Harbor Freight:

1711489451534.jpeg
 
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Considering the cost, warranty and features on most packs available now, it's hard to resist plug n play packs.

I just gave away my last raw cells (30kWh battery).

I never thought I would like them, but vertical mount large packs are my favorite. Like powerpro. They are the same price or cheaper than server rack with better features. And you can use them in permitted systems in the future. Never thought I would like this style of battery but here we are
 
ScrotusGobbleBottom said:
But in my case, I didnt just wire up some batteries, I wired up an auxiliary solar circuit to nearly every room of my house. I loved it. Went in full fist.
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Very interested in learning more about the emphasized part, in particular as to how this can be effectively done in a largish house. I'm much, much earlier on my journey than you and this sounds like a great practical step to learn and work on.
 
AC/DC said:
Very interested in learning more about the emphasized part, in particular as to how this can be effectively done in a largish house. I'm much, much earlier on my journey than you and this sounds like a great practical step to learn and work on.
Click to expand...
Firstly, I did it the hard way. Most people would just pull some breakers wires out of their main circuit panel and just use their inverter to feed those circuits. Take 2-4 breakers out, run circuits to auxiliary panel wired from inverter. Put 50 amp breaker in house panel that feeds the inverter. DONE>

I decided to start with what I considered critical loads and "majority of the time on" lowish loads. I started with my fridge, basement freezer and bedroom. The kitchen shared a wall with the second story bedroom. So I fed up 4 circuits. 2 to the kitchen and 2 to upstairs. One outlet on an independent circuit fed from aux load panel.
Basement needs special attention because of code compliance. Wires not run thru walls typically need conduit or EMT You will need to research code compliance for your new panel, basement wire runs, and how many outlets you need and wire gauge.
Wiring an additional outlet is pretty easy.

On the first story, pick your spot, find out where it lands in the basement, and then drill up, very carefully into the wall cavity.

Same idea on the second floor but its a lot more complicated.

For the second story: Find where you want the outlet.
Find the same spot in the attic. Drill down into a wall cavity on the second floor. Watch out for load bearing walls, pipes, preexisting electrical and such. Then you can use an electricians fishing rod to traverse between the first floor. Start in the attic and push it down thru your holes. If you measured properly this will be not terrible but still might take a long time. If you have trouble you could open up the wall on the first floor and hand feed it. Tie romex to the rod that is now in the basement and pull it up into the attic. from here you can go anywhere on the second floor by going down into the wall cavities.

This is a very simplistic way to put it. You should do a lot of research before doing this.
If I can do it, you can too.

What I am left with is a solar outlet, right next to a normal outlet. That way I can choose what I want to power with solar and have more circuits. If the grid ever goes down I probably wouldnt notice untill I tried to turn on a light.
Speaking of lights, rewiring a first floor ceiling light in a 2 story house is the biggest pain in the ass you will find.
:)
A big reason I did this is so I can use ALL the power from my panels. Nothing hurts like a full battery at 11:30 am.
 
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Rain@ said:
I bought 4pcs EVE280K from Tewaycell before, and now I want to build a 16S system. At that time, I made the 4S system out of temporary interest.
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I am about to build my first system, going for 24V 100ah. I currently have two 100W solar panels, battery cells are next on the list.
So that beginners like me continue to learn, can I ask you to post pictures of your build and possibly include a parts list?

thank you.
 
I think if you don't enjoy it then buy a battery.
The built batteries are getting more cost effective with great warranties. Buy the time you do the research on building your own and then sourcing the materials, it isn't really cost effective if you would rather spend your time doing other things or even working more to pay for a ready made battery.
But, some of us enjoy learning, building, and even spending a lot of time on a DIY Solar Power forum.
For me, the "cost effective" argument is just a much needed excuse for me to justify my obsessive hobbies to my wife.
Like the important "research" I am doing right now.
 
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Been thinking about this and while I still stand by my prior posts, I can see a possible reason to replace it all with a server rack battery. I built it and I am proud of it. I know how it works and have confidence in its safety. But I’m 63 years old an it’s likely someone else will eventually have to sell the house and liquidate my estate. Where I see a working testament to my skills and knowledge, it’s likely a home inspector or potential buyer will see a kluge. To me it’s the same thing except it doesn’t have a neat cabinet with locking doors and a nice paint job. Most people don’t want a home made monstrosity in their garage.
 
SoggyShoes said:
I think if you don't enjoy it then buy a battery.
The built batteries ate getting more cost effective with great warranties. Buy the time you do the research on building your own and then sourcing the materials, it isn't really cost effective if you would rather spend your time doing other things even working more to pay for a ready made battery.
But some of us enjoy learning, building, and even spending a lot of time on a DIY Solar Power forum.
For me, the "cost effective" argumant is just a much needed excuse for me to justify my obsessive hobbies to my wife.
Like the important "research" I am doing right now.
Click to expand...
I feel the same level of satisfaction when I DIY something big. It’s just that I have also learned my limits for how long I can maintain the enthusiasm for a project.
 
ScrotusGobbleBottom said:
This is a very simplistic way to put it. You should do a lot of research before doing this.
If I can do it, you can too.
Click to expand...
Thanks a ton, lots of ideas and research starting points.

ScrotusGobbleBottom said:
Firstly, I did it the hard way. Most people would just pull some breakers wires out of their main circuit panel and just use their inverter to feed those circuits. Take 2-4 breakers out, run circuits to auxiliary panel wired from inverter. Put 50 amp breaker in house panel that feeds the inverter. DONE
Click to expand...
So I think I would probably want to explore this route first, my first goal would be to power my office from the off-grid system; it's nicely isolated on a single breaker I think. I'm not fully understanding how what you describe would work, unfortunately I'm very new to this kind of stuff. Are you saying to take a breaker out (where the circuit I want to move off-grid is) and somehow move those wires to a new panel? No real way to do that without opening up the wall right?

Is there any way to "feed" external power into a circuit in the existing panel? I realize what I will say sounds unsafe, and I'm not interested in unsafe technologies, but it's just an idea in case something similar exists: some sort of special breaker that takes power from another source instead of the back, so the connections to the grid on the back do not exist and instead it is somehow fed the input thru the front? Even better would be something that would be switchable. And even better would be a special panel where each special breaker would somehow be switchable :)

I'm just looking for some quick way with minimum intrusiveness to test out my system as it grows. Right now I don't even have panels I'm starting with the battery. So I'm charging it from the grid, but I'd like to see if I can power my office off it. Then I will add some panels with a charge controller.
 
AC/DC said:
No real way to do that without opening up the wall right?
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If the house panel is not in a basement, yes, it would be a lot harder. Opening a wall or perhaps just putting the inverter, and inverter fed panel right next to the house panel. Then it would be minimal wall busting for that part.
AC/DC said:
Is there any way to "feed" external power into a circuit in the existing panel?
Click to expand...
Yes, kinda. This would be approaching the concept of grid tied. This is a rats nest for diy. It includes a lot of extra permitting, vastly more expensive inverter and working with the power company. Could take months...
AC/DC said:
some sort of special breaker that takes power from another source instead of the back,
Click to expand...
I don't think that is possible without being unsafe.

Lots of things to consider. Good luck.
 
AC/DC said:
Thanks a ton, lots of ideas and research starting points.


So I think I would probably want to explore this route first, my first goal would be to power my office from the off-grid system; it's nicely isolated on a single breaker I think. I'm not fully understanding how what you describe would work, unfortunately I'm very new to this kind of stuff. Are you saying to take a breaker out (where the circuit I want to move off-grid is) and somehow move those wires to a new panel? No real way to do that without opening up the wall right?

Is there any way to "feed" external power into a circuit in the existing panel? I realize what I will say sounds unsafe, and I'm not interested in unsafe technologies, but it's just an idea in case something similar exists: some sort of special breaker that takes power from another source instead of the back, so the connections to the grid on the back do not exist and instead it is somehow fed the input thru the front? Even better would be something that would be switchable. And even better would be a special panel where each special breaker would somehow be switchable :)

I'm just looking for some quick way with minimum intrusiveness to test out my system as it grows. Right now I don't even have panels I'm starting with the battery. So I'm charging it from the grid, but I'd like to see if I can power my office off it. Then I will add some panels with a charge controller.
Click to expand...
@AC/DC if you just want to be able to (manually) switch everything on a single circuit from grid to generator/solar/battery that is fairly straight forward with a manual transfer switch.
It is done at the panel so there is no messing with the wiring in the walls other than possibly around your breaker panel.
I have done a number of them (for generator backup) and, if you are comfortable working in your main panel, pretty straight forward. I believe they are code compliant nationally.

If you are not comfortable working inside a main panel, hire a pro. One wrong touch could kill you. But look over their shoulder. Hiring a small, self-employed electrician might even help teach you the basics.
If you are installing it yourself as a homeowner, you can get manual circuit breakers everywhere: the box stores, electric supply stores, farm supply stores and Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSFY6Z6L

https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-306CRK-Circuit-Transfer/dp/B012DHO4A4

https://www.lowes.com/pl/Generator-transfer-switch-kits-Generators-Electrical/4294641570
 
ohmboy said:
I am about to build my first system, going for 24V 100ah. I currently have two 100W solar panels, battery cells are next on the list.
So that beginners like me continue to learn, can I ask you to post pictures of your build and possibly include a parts list?

thank you.
Click to expand...
Regarding the 16S system, I have not purchased cells or accessories yet because I have been hesitant about cells and assembled battery before. 😅
 
A Luyuan 16S DIY battery box with 150A JK Inverter BMS + screen + EVE LF280K matched cells will run you about $1900 shipped to the USA.
An EG4 PowerPro is $3800 + freight which costs at least another $300 so a total of $4100.

So the cost savings are obviously still significant.

Luyuan Standout Pros
  1. Everything user replaceable
  2. A JK BMS
  3. Over 50% cheaper
Luyuan Standout Cons
  1. Not UL Listed or "approved"
  2. Have to wait 60+ days for delivery
  3. Have to put it together yourself although all the pieces are provided

EG4 PowerPro Standout Pros
  1. UL Listed
  2. Looks nice/modern/clean
  3. Has built-in heater (is questionable how low of temp it can handle for charging since there is no insulation)
  4. Has built-in extinguisher
  5. Price as I listed for the Luyuan has only a 150A BMS instead of 200A in PowerPro
  6. Outdoor rated
EG4 PowerPro Standout Cons
  1. Not user serviceable
  2. Price
  3. BMS: 100A default charging limit, passive balancing of cells (some may or may not consider this a con)
 
ScrotusGobbleBottom said:
And relatively the same KWh
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The Luyuan box with EVE LF280K probably comes out higher since those cells have consistently tested well above 280Ah (let's use 290Ah to be conservative). That comes out to $128/kWh (290Ah * 51.2V = 14,848 Wh and $1900/14.848kWh). PowerPro using 280Ah would be $4100/14.336kWh or $286/kWh. Would also be helpful if someone posted link to anyone who has capacity tested the PowerPro battery.
 
Sigunas said:
If you can get used modules from EV's, DIY can save you a lot... For example 2020 and newer Hyunday modules go for as low as 100 EUR/kWh, when buying in small quantities. On the other hand, I would not bother with Tesla modules anymore.
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I would not bother with ev packs unless you get them for less than 50eur/kwh. Lifepo4 is already below 100eur/kwh.

EV packs often have difficult voltage range and disassembling them to new confiquration is difficult. For example most VW packs are either 8S or 12S whereas you would typically need 14S to match the voltage range of 48v(nominal) inverters.

Also actually buying any EV packs is time-consuming scavenge hunting…
 
rhino said:
A Luyuan 16S DIY battery box with 150A JK Inverter BMS + screen + EVE LF280K matched cells will run you about $1900 shipped to the USA.
An EG4 PowerPro is $3800 + freight which costs at least another $300 so a total of $4100.

So the cost savings are obviously still significant.

Luyuan Standout Pros
  1. Everything user replaceable
  2. A JK BMS
  3. Over 50% cheaper
Luyuan Standout Cons
  1. Not UL Listed or "approved"
  2. Have to wait 60+ days for delivery
  3. Have to put it together yourself although all the pieces are provided

EG4 PowerPro Standout Pros
  1. UL Listed
  2. Looks nice/modern/clean
  3. Has built-in heater (is questionable how low of temp it can handle for charging since there is no insulation)
  4. Has built-in extinguisher
  5. Price as I listed for the Luyuan has only a 150A BMS instead of 200A in PowerPro
  6. Outdoor rated
EG4 PowerPro Standout Cons
  1. Not user serviceable
  2. Price
  3. BMS: 100A default charging limit, passive balancing of cells (some may or may not consider this a con)
Click to expand...
Yes, the price difference is almost 2 times.
Are there any professional installation technicians in the comments section? If you DIY this system for customers, how much is the installation fee?
 
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