Maybe they can get them offgrid like in Australia.
Who’s Afraid of Retail Electricity Rate Reform?
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Robert Ibe
New Member
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Has anyone ever wondered why Surprise Valley Electric in far NE California and Trinity PUD in trinity county California can charge on average just about 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost for their electric service (Overall , connection charge + electric + delivery) compared to the rest of California.
And their power rates do not double and triple the more you use (tiered rates)
Trinity PUD
www.trinitypud.com
SURPRISE VALLEY ELECTRIFICATION CORP
www.surprisevalleyelectric.org
And their power rates do not double and triple the more you use (tiered rates)
Trinity PUD
Trinity PUD Residential Rates
Rates and Fees Protecting Trinity County’s Rights to Low-Cost, Clean, Renewable Energy
www.trinitypud.com
SURPRISE VALLEY ELECTRIFICATION CORP
SVEC Rates | Surprise Valley Electrification Corp
Below you will find a PDF with information regarding SVEC's new rates, which went into effect February 1, 2024. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact our office. SVEC Rates - Effective February 1, 2024
www.surprisevalleyelectric.org
Brucey
Solar Wizard
It seems inevitable that the ones who can go municipal electric will do so to detach from the subsidizing of those living in the mountains and padding the shareholder pocketsHas anyone ever wondered why Surprise Valley Electric in far NE California and Trinity PUD in trinity county California can charge on average just about 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost for their electric service (Overall , connection charge + electric + delivery) compared to the rest of California.
And their power rates do not double and triple the more you use (tiered rates)
Trinity PUD
Trinity PUD Residential Rates
Rates and Fees Protecting Trinity County’s Rights to Low-Cost, Clean, Renewable Energy
SURPRISE VALLEY ELECTRIFICATION CORP
SVEC Rates | Surprise Valley Electrification Corp
Below you will find a PDF with information regarding SVEC's new rates, which went into effect February 1, 2024. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact our office. SVEC Rates - Effective February 1, 2024
Because, SURPRISE!Has anyone ever wondered why Surprise Valley Electric in far NE California and Trinity PUD in trinity county California can charge on average just about 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost for their electric service (Overall , connection charge + electric + delivery) compared to the rest of California.
And their power rates do not double and triple the more you use (tiered rates)
Trinity PUD
Trinity PUD Residential Rates
Rates and Fees Protecting Trinity County’s Rights to Low-Cost, Clean, Renewable Energy
SURPRISE VALLEY ELECTRIFICATION CORP
SVEC Rates | Surprise Valley Electrification Corp
Below you will find a PDF with information regarding SVEC's new rates, which went into effect February 1, 2024. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact our office. SVEC Rates - Effective February 1, 2024
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
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I understand how you feel about rooftop PV customers zeroing their net consumption and avoiding paying for grid.
But excluding that case, just considering people who simply buy and use power from the grid, I think it is better to have zero baseline charge and bundle infrastructure into kWh rate.
The goal is to reduce energy consumption, right? And someone who consumes less power should bear a smaller portion of upgrades.
Same goes for water. I have a flat rate of $200 every 2 months regardless of how little I use.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
The big problem I have with this is that you have to disclose you're income (tax returns?) to the utility company (or govt) so they can figure out the rate. Total invasion of privacy - not the America I grew up in.
I think that is no longer correct. Last month, the CPUC issued a proposed decision that will lower energy charges by five to seven cents per KWh through a new FIXED charge of $24.15 a month for all customers who are not enrolled in low-income rate programs.
As Hedges noted, the Fixed Charges will penalize frugal, energy efficient (and SOLAR) customers who use less than the average amount of grid electricity because they are not low-income customers.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
A fixed charge is one thing, however.....
The OP listed "....and an income-graduated fixed charge...." - e.g. income graduated as apposed to just a fixed charge and the income part has been part of this initiative as far as I've read to date. "Income Graduated" means one will need to report/share income just for a utility.... which means report updates every year via an online form? or grant automatic access to tax returns? since one's income changes year to year.
The morass of tying income to rate charges is mind-boggling to me either by having to auto-share my tax returns or fill something out. What if one doesn't bother to file a tax return? And even if you share, how is income defined - e.g. do tax free municipal bonds or IRA's count as income ? do fire losses count as a deduction? What if the utility get's my income info wrong and won't fix it - what is my recourse? There are 100s of questions and usually the customer/tax-payer doesn't come out on top with expanded bureaucracy. And once this is in place then water, garbage, x, y, z are likely next.
We lived in San Jose 20yrs ago when they initiated the 'choose you're own provider' that totally failed and at least doubled our electric rates. This is one of the reasons we left CA and these current proposals are just more noodling with actual customers at the bottom of the priority list. This kind of noodling does not have a good track record in my book but unfortunately, CA policies tend to migrate to WA state and OR (where I live now) so what happens is of interest.
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You seem to think that owners of a company should not get compensation for their investment. It is rather obvious that you have never owned a business. They don't last very long if all they do is lose money. Making a profit on your investment is not greed, it is the only way to keep a business running. Money is kept by the company to cover operating costs, which include unseen contingencies. A portion of it is distributed to the owners when it is more than needed to cover projected costs. They get the money because they have all of the skin in the game.
In the case of the Glorious Peoples' Republic of California, you should pass the blame around to the state and the tree huggers that don't want trimming done near lines or control burns done on forest lands. Add in a socialist nature in general and you get a great recipe for mismanagement of the whole power issue.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Not solar related but if you sign up for the state health insurance exchanges where states manage their own and not rely on the fed one, it will lookup your income from the previous year (at least in NY) to calculate your final premium (Obamacare subsidy varying with income).
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
That's not my goal. And besides, when you squeeze electricity the consumption just squirts out into the natural gas market, as is the case, with California being the #1 state for home natural gas despite having the most ideal climate for heat pump.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
This is a hot topic lately, but somewhat counter proven by all rural coops in California being cheaper than PG&E. The federal government still provides rural electrification funding.
I think we should end utility liability for wildfires, they're a fact of the landscape and a risk the land owners should take on.
Don't think they are doing that. The only time you have to disclose your income is if you want to qualify for low-income rates. If not, no disclosure needed.
Because they are not regulated by a PUC.
Even if strict liability and inverse condemnation laws were revised related to wildfires, utility bills would not change much. There are too many social policies and programs built into the IOU utility bills. Only moving some of the infrastructure costs onto the state or federal ledger will reduce ratebase and thus reduce rates. Providing basic service to lower income customers is a state function that should not be done through rates. Also, promoting interregional reliability by building transmission between regions is a competitive advantage for the US and should be supported through federal grants, policies including streamlining permitting.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
I can agree with that, until you get to the transmission part. If we built more robust local nuclear and gas we would not need to chase this transmission dragon.
SkyBlue
New Member
And because they don't pay their CEO $17 million per year.
PG&E’s CEO gets paid $17 million. Here’s how that compares to other utility leaders
PG&E CEO Patricia Poppe made $17 million in 2023. See how her salary compares to other top utility leaders.
www.sfchronicle.com
‘Outrageous and unacceptable’: PG&E’s massive 2023 profit frustrates customers
(KRON) – Some PG&E customers are frustrated after hearing the utility increased its profit by almost 25 percent last year, while consumers have seen their rates go up. PG&E just reported a…
www.kron4.com
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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At $24 vs. my present $10 or $12 minimum monthly payment, I'm not going to worry about it.
To boil a frog without it jumping out of the pot, raise the heat slowly.
PG&E is allowed to make a profit up to 8% of assets. Could make less, if operations aren't doing well.
Are those assets purchased by the company, investing its own money?
Or if I had consented to paying $150k for hookup of 3-phase service, would the equipment and installation paid for with my money have entitled them to $12k profits that year (and a declining amount as it is depreciated.)?
I'm driving a nice Diesel/Allison K2500 which PG&E dumped at auction because it was worthless. Depreciated to zero with 13 year and 130k miles, so didn't entitle them to any profits; time to buy a new expensive one.
To boil a frog without it jumping out of the pot, raise the heat slowly.
PG&E is allowed to make a profit up to 8% of assets. Could make less, if operations aren't doing well.
Are those assets purchased by the company, investing its own money?
Or if I had consented to paying $150k for hookup of 3-phase service, would the equipment and installation paid for with my money have entitled them to $12k profits that year (and a declining amount as it is depreciated.)?
I'm driving a nice Diesel/Allison K2500 which PG&E dumped at auction because it was worthless. Depreciated to zero with 13 year and 130k miles, so didn't entitle them to any profits; time to buy a new expensive one.
They are not going far enough. They should charge the high income earners a fixed charge of $1000 a month.
Who’s Afraid of Retail Electricity Rate Reform?
Even solar losers like me can see a big win in California rate reform. Note: An earlier version of this post reported proposed electricity prices taken from PG&E testimony filed on April 7. The…energyathaas.wordpress.com
Who’s Afraid of Retail Electricity Rate Reform?
California just moved one step closer to changing the way households pay for electricity. If all goes according to these newly proposed plans, Californians will be paying lower electricity prices and an “income-graduated” fixed charge by 2025. The impetus for electricity rate reform? California’s retail electricity prices are high and rising
This will encourage and quicken the pace of grid defection, the embrace of solar plus storage, and the eventual death of the evil grid.
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OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
Optional government program - there are choices. Utilities are not the same kind of optional and are not a government program.
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