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How to balance batteries?

EG4 18kpv.
I sent Sig Solar an email about this, so hopefully they'll be more specific.
No charge controller.
There is a way to export your settings to a PDF from your 18K,

Here is an example of the settings PDF I exported from a unit I was working with. When the unit is in lithium mode for batteries, everything is configured for SOC versus voltages, so you might not be seeing the settings they're suggesting because you have your inverter in lithium mode.

I would suggest exporting your settings so it's easier to see how you have your settings set.
 

Attachments

  • 18K Settings.pdf
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Charge to full all your batteries.
Take the one problem battery out of parallel with the other batteries. Turn off or disconnect the other batteries.
Connect the comms to the one problem battery.
Put the battery through a forced charge cycle, from the grid if you have to. Maybe drain off a little power first to get the EG4 to start a charge cycle.
Reconnect all batteries in parallel.

Hopefully that fully charges and rebalances the problem battery.
 
So the batteries are in parallel. That should mean they are all at the same voltage, which means they should all be at the same state of charge, assuming all the internal cells are all still good and balanced. How is the SOC calculated and reported?
Just to correct you on the statement. With this LiFePo4 chemistry same voltage does NOT equal same SOC% for about 1%-99% SOC.
 
All 6 are at 56.5v.
I can check amps when the suns out to charge at max current.
Your batteries are fine, but likely the SOC level is giving you garbage readings. If you don't have time for the nonsense with weeks and months of back and forth with support just disregard the soc and trust in your shunt for SOC, use them in lead acid mode
 
While I do like everything to report correctly, if you have for example 12 EG4 LifePower4 batteries, you have 1200 amps total, or 960 if you always leave a 20% floor. That said I haven't had problems with my batteries balancing, but I did install Victron Shunt to my system so that if I ever have those issues the shunt will show me the true amount of energy in the battery bank. It's not in the picture below, but right where the negative connects to the Lynx is where I inserted the shunt, you can also buy the nicer shunt from Victron called the Lynx Shunt and connect to the Lynx distributor.

This won't solve your problem of wanting to see all your batteries in perfect balance, but it will enable you to know the true SOC for your entire battery bank.

1716570244176.png
 
Just to correct you on the statement. With this LiFePo4 chemistry same voltage does NOT equal same SOC% for about 1%-99% SOC.

I know same voltage isn't the same state of charge for 2 separate batteries, but if you connect two in parallel, wouldn't they (very slowly) equalize in state of charge to each other? If you connect battery A at 70% SOC and battery B at 50% state of charge, they would remain at the same state of charge?
 
I know same voltage isn't the same state of charge for 2 separate batteries, but if you connect two in parallel, wouldn't they (very slowly) equalize in state of charge to each other? If you connect battery A at 70% SOC and battery B at 50% state of charge, they would remain at the same state of charge?
It doesn't appear to be that simple with LPF batteries.
 
I know same voltage isn't the same state of charge for 2 separate batteries, but if you connect two in parallel, wouldn't they (very slowly) equalize in state of charge to each other? If you connect battery A at 70% SOC and battery B at 50% state of charge, they would remain at the same state of charge?
They will want to achieve equilibrium in voltage (which may or may not reflect on the BMS indicated soc).
 
I know same voltage isn't the same state of charge for 2 separate batteries, but if you connect two in parallel, wouldn't they (very slowly) equalize in state of charge to each other? If you connect battery A at 70% SOC and battery B at 50% state of charge, they would remain at the same state of charge?
Yes they would equalize somewhat. However due to the very flat voltage curve they may never reach equilibrium just sitting there connected. Same voltage but different level of charge. Need to cycle the batteries for them to get in sync.
 
Correct, LFP cells are a bit tricky to balance up.
Once they are connected in parallel at the same voltage, slow charge them together until they hit the upper voltage knee.
At that point, the pack with the higher SoC will vastly drop it's current and the lower SoC pack will then be taking most of the charge current until the true SoC catches up to the other pack. Get all the cells to the same voltage up at 3.55 volts per cell, and then the SoC will be top balanced.
 
Correct, LFP cells are a bit tricky to balance up.
Once they are connected in parallel at the same voltage, slow charge them together until they hit the upper voltage knee.
At that point, the pack with the higher SoC will vastly drop it's current and the lower SoC pack will then be taking most of the charge current until the true SoC catches up to the other pack. Get all the cells to the same voltage up at 3.55 volts per cell, and then the SoC will be top balanced.
Problem I am having is BMS is going into alarm and disconnecting the charging at 3.5V with other cells at 3.4V, data in previous post. I did some step charging and discharging and did get one battery to sync with the others. I have new one that is doing it now. I'll discharge it and bring it back up. Taking a lot more time and effort that I expected. I can see this being a per month maintenance issue.
 
Problem I am having is BMS is going into alarm and disconnecting the charging at 3.5V with other cells at 3.4V, data in previous post. I did some step charging and discharging and did get one battery to sync with the others. I have new one that is doing it now. I'll discharge it and bring it back up. Taking a lot more time and effort that I expected. I can see this being a per month maintenance issue.
Consider reducing the charging voltage to 3.400 Vpc until all is synchronized better. If planning to charge to 3.500 Vpc the alarm should be increased to 3.600 to 3.650 Vpc. Never going to be so perfectly balanced to charge at the alarm level.
 
I can see this being a per month maintenance issue.
Once the cells become well top balanced, they should become stable and the small balance current from the BMS should be enough to keep them in check. The main problem with the initial balance is the BMS only has about 0.1 amp of balance current. So for it to truly be able to balance, the charge current can only be that 0.1 amp as well. Then the BMS can literally stop the high cell from charging and allow the other cells to catch up. Once they achieve a good balance, the slight differences in charge rate can typically be managed with the small balance current.
 
Consider reducing the charging voltage to 3.400 Vpc until all is synchronized better. If planning to charge to 3.500 Vpc the alarm should be increased to 3.600 to 3.650 Vpc. Never going to be so perfectly balanced to charge at the alarm level.
I was aiming for 3.45 but the imbalance would make one cell go over 3.5 while the other was a 3.3 and change. My one success story was to run it down to 80% let it sit and then take it up to 55.2 and hold it. I'll get more creative next time around. Start work week back up.
Once the cells become well top balanced, they should become stable and the small balance current from the BMS should be enough to keep them in check. The main problem with the initial balance is the BMS only has about 0.1 amp of balance current. So for it to truly be able to balance, the charge current can only be that 0.1 amp as well. Then the BMS can literally stop the high cell from charging and allow the other cells to catch up. Once they achieve a good balance, the slight differences in charge rate can typically be managed with the small balance current.

Once the cells become well top balanced, they should become stable and the small balance current from the BMS should be enough to keep them in check. The main problem with the initial balance is the BMS only has about 0.1 amp of balance current. So for it to truly be able to balance, the charge current can only be that 0.1 amp as well. Then the BMS can literally stop the high cell from charging and allow the other cells to catch up. Once they achieve a good balance, the slight differences in charge rate can typically be managed with the small balance current.
So the problem child has ben tamed. Now having fun with the two new rack batteries. I ran them down, charged them up, and still had an imbalance. So what seems to be the fastest method is go run the battery 1/2 way down with a 1kw mini-split so I don't feel like I am wasting any energy. As they get close to each other I bring it up with 10 amps but only 1 volt at a time until the current goes to zero and they balance out. I kept walking them up until I got to 56.2 and held it there until current and differential voltage went away. On the last battery and looks good so far. Mid-Level staircase method to coin a term?
1716932345114.png
 
From what I've been learning on here you should be balancing cells at the higher voltage range, since that is when the difference is even more pronounced. As you found though, the higher cells were hitting an alarm at 3.5V and the BMS was shutting down, stopping balancing. So if your mid point balancing brought them closer enough now, let them balance at a higher voltage as well. Are you able to change the 3.5V alarm? I'm running into a similar issue with my TimeUSB batteries, but I have no control over the BMS and can't even see the cell voltages.
 
From what I've been learning on here you should be balancing cells at the higher voltage range, since that is when the difference is even more pronounced. As you found though, the higher cells were hitting an alarm at 3.5V and the BMS was shutting down, stopping balancing. So if your mid point balancing brought them closer enough now, let them balance at a higher voltage as well. Are you able to change the 3.5V alarm? I'm running into a similar issue with my TimeUSB batteries, but I have no control over the BMS and can't even see the cell voltages.
I am going though a agenizing painful process of slowly walking them up. It is my understanding that 3.45-3.5V is where the BMS active starts to balance from observation. Above 3.5 it just alarms out possibly due to cell differential. I have the ChargeVerter set for 1A (lowest) to go to 55.2V on this battery hoping they will balance out at 3.45V. Once I get them there I can walk them up to at least 56.2 and I am gold from there out. I don't want to change any factory setting in the battery/BMS. I want to find the least painful that works in my setup.

On other batteries over the weekend I would charge up a little, apply a load bring it down to equal out, then charge up a little and repeat until I got to 56.2V That was faster but took a lot of effort. I don't have that time to "play" with them right now. Sounds like a great idea for a device to do this while talking to the BMS (hint hint).

Where I am at right now
Cell voltage
3.551 highest
3.458 average
3.384 lowest
 
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My 6 lifepo4's weren't balanced. 1 battery was way out of whack, like 20% off the rest. This was after 5 months of smooth sailing through fall and winter.

Sig Solar says to cycle them. I did this, got them down to 17% (I'm set to go to 10%) then used the grid to bring them up to 99%. Everything was good for about 3 weeks, then lucky #2 battery started wandering again.

Sig Solar wants me to cycle these things up and down for 2 weeks. How exactly do I do this, turn off the pv's and just turn everything on in the house? This sounds stupid, so there must be more to it. I do not use a ton of power daily, so it would take maybe 3-4 days to get these things down to 20% or lower.

I don't see how I can do this every day for two weeks.
I've had similar issues with my setup. Cycling them seems to be the solution, but it's not the most convenient, especially if you're not a heavy power user.
 
Your batteries are fine, but likely the SOC level is giving you garbage readings. If you don't have time for the nonsense with weeks and months of back and forth with support just disregard the soc and trust in your shunt for SOC, use them in lead acid mode
Sorry for the late reply and thanks for your input. I don't get alerts.
I'm fairly certain the readings are accurate, at least enough to show that this one battery is way out of whack. Recently, the inverter is only charging to 93% and then I check the comm hub and it shows that #2 is still dazed and confused, possibly more confused than me.
I've gotten some bad/incomplete advice from a tech guy at sig solar and I'm not going to keep going back and forth, one day at a time.
They sent this little doo-dad to update my batteries, which might be a waste of time, but what the heck. The instructions are different from the encased unit they show on their youtube video.
I drained the batteries sub 20% and they're nearly charged now, so I'll try this thing with fingers and toes crossed and report back here either way.

IMG_20240529_141929188.jpg IMG_20240529_141933357.jpg IMG_20240529_141939265.jpg
 
Wend down to 30% and back up. at 52% 52.6V @ 5A everything looked great and nearly balance then went up to 54.5V and it wen to crap. Turned on the inverter and Mini-Split and going back down again. All have latest firmware since a week ago. I'm going to take a break and just let it go low and slow and let one 3k array take up the 6 pack of batteries. If it wasn't a warranty issue I would open it up and charge each cell separately. Everything was just fine for over a year and then I messed with it...
1717022810118.png1717022833793.png
 
That's what I was thinking BB when I used this dongle to update the batteries today.
The batteries stopped communicating with the inverter. I freaked out and got a tech on the phone and he said the inverter's firmware was behind 2-3 versions. He did an update, the inverter reset a couple times and still no change.
I freaked out a little more and got another tech on the phone. Brandon eventually figured out that when updating to the current versions on the batteries (& inverter I suppose) that the baud needs to be changed from 9600 to 19200. All of a sudden the warning shut of and the inverter went back to green/normal, the batteries and the communication hub all read a perfect 100% for all 6 batteries, and I noticed that the batteries aren't constantly getting trickle-fed via the pv's, which they've always done. That was a scary experience for me, an electrical laymen, but it looks like all is well now. It wouldn't hurt to include this change for baud in the instructions.
 
The latest LifePower4 battery firmware update (including the EG4 firmware updater "dongle") does change the RS485 bus on pins 7&8 to 19200. The RS485 bus on pins 1&2 remains at 9600. The Hub uses pins 7&8 to communicate will all installed batteries. The RS485 bus on pins 1&2 is now available for use by the BMS_Test software or Solar Assistant as the inverter which would normally use this bus is now connected to the Hub.

Verify the Hub firmware is also the latest and it can be downloaded for the EG4 website.
 
Wend down to 30% and back up. at 52% 52.6V @ 5A everything looked great and nearly balance then went up to 54.5V and it wen to crap.
This is not a big surprise with LFP cells. From 20% to 80% the voltage changes so slow that the batteries look well balanced, even if they are pretty far out. When the pack seemed to be at 50%, maybe one cell was actually 60% and the rest were at 40%. The voltages are all near identical, LFP does that. Then while charging, the one cell that was 60% is now passing 80%. It will start to run away and the voltage will climb fast. The other cells are only at 60% and their voltage still climbs very slow. So the balance looks like it goes way out. In fact, it always was out all along, but the voltage curve hides that the cells were that out of balance until you try to charge up to the top.

The only real fix is to balance at the top, in the upper knee, where all of the cells go into the fast climb. But it can be tricky as the highest cell will race to the high voltage cut off very quickly. Without opening up the battery and connecting directly to cell terminals, the only sure way is to charge the battery VERY SLOWLY. You probably need less than 4 amps of charge current. And/Or setting the absorb limit voltage low enough to keep the top cell from running too far. But this is really no different as the charging source will go into CV mode and drop the current anyways. Just using the low current does nearly the same thing. Doing it at higher current in voltage steps may be a little faster, but you need to be there to keep moving the settings. Just using a low current and 55.2 volts (3.45 per cell x 16) for absorb will do it slow but you don't have to slave over it. It will just creep up and slowly balance. The maximum current you can use depends on the balancer current and how far out the cells are to begin with. As one cell begins to run, the balancer current needs to slow it enough for the other cells to catch up. The higher the balancer current, the faster you can still charge the other cells.
 

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