DALY Non-Smart Hardware BMS parameters are dangerous?

zedconnor · Wednesday at 12:51 AM

I did search here and no one is talking about this.

Alot of people, mostly diy pack sellers are using these BMSes to build and sell mostly 12V batteries for home usage.

But their thresholds for OVP and UVP are insane. Is this even safe to use for LFP?

Daddy Tanuki · Wednesday at 5:21 AM

Thats why you go into the unit and reprogram it to safe values. not having bluetooth does not mean it cannot be programmed by a laptop with "UART"? Pretty sure they can still be adjusted, and even if they are not, when you order it you can order it's parameters to be set to what you want form the factory.

Suijkerbuijk · Wednesday at 6:12 AM

zedconnor said:
I did search here and no one is talking about this.

Alot of people, mostly diy pack sellers are using these BMSes to build and sell mostly 12V batteries for home usage.

But their thresholds for OVP and UVP are insane. Is this even safe to use for LFP?

Its normal.
If you use lfo battery for start battery for a engine its have to this .
But its limit on time .

In my case the battery have c1 of 150A and max for 450a
So it can use for starting.
And you think wat a inverter do if its starts up ?
1000a pul for a sec normal on that moment.

So its normal .

See specs

zedconnor · Thursday at 6:48 AM

Daddy Tanuki said:
Thats why you go into the unit and reprogram it to safe values. not having bluetooth does not mean it cannot be programmed by a laptop with "UART"? Pretty sure they can still be adjusted, and even if they are not, when you order it you can order it's parameters to be set to what you want form the factory.

They're called Hardware BMS(as daly calls it) aka Dumb BMS and there is ZERO ports on the BMS except for the 5 Volt Sensing wires.
The settings must be hard-coded into the BMS and I see no way of modifying it.

zedconnor · Thursday at 6:51 AM

Suijkerbuijk said:
Its normal.
If you use lfo battery for start battery for a engine its have to this .
But its limit on time .

In my case the battery have c1 of 150A and max for 450a
So it can use for starting.
And you think wat a inverter do if its starts up ?
1000a pul for a sec normal on that moment.

So its normal .

See specs

I think you need to stick around and learn more from the forum before spouting bullshit. And you're showing me the specs of a battery pack. I am talking about BMS here.

And where did that 1000a came in?

Suijkerbuijk · Thursday at 7:27 AM

zedconnor said:
I think you need to stick around and learn more from the forum before spouting bullshit. And you're showing me the specs of a battery pack. I am talking about BMS here. And where did that 1000a came in?

You do understand that the specs of my personal battery use a bms.
That are not the battery specs but specs how that bms is set for that type of battery
With out a bms that same battery have a bigger output and even input .
A LFP can do easy a ful discharge and a bms is the reason it can not do it .

For the rest that a inverter new first start can easy pull a 1000a on that moment to fill its Capacitor.

So a bms have to be program that it can handel a real short time for a high out put.
So things like that not shutdown a bms.
But a bms can only handel continu power on wire mm2/awg its connect on.

But have good day

Daddy Tanuki · Thursday at 7:55 AM

zedconnor said:
They're called Hardware BMS(as daly calls it) aka Dumb BMS and there is ZERO ports on the BMS except for the 5 Volt Sensing wires.
The settings must be hard-coded into the BMS and I see no way of modifying it.

if you had read my entire post you would have noticed how I said that you can have the parameters set at the factory when you order it... so there might not be a way for you to modify it, but it can be when they make it and initially setup the chipset.

as far as are the setting dangerous? it does depend upon the battery bank you are using. I use 400 amp hour winstons that can discharge safely I might add at 3c so thats 1200 amp hours for one cell for what...20 minutes? it can also pulse discharge at 10C...

just because you play around with little cells does not mean everybody does....you could either up your game on the cells you use, or just buy an adjustable BMS DALY...JK... JBD... Orion, whatever.

Horsefly · Thursday at 7:57 AM

Suijkerbuijk said:
Its normal.
If you use lfo battery for start battery for a engine its have to this .
But its limit on time .

In my case the battery have c1 of 150A and max for 450a
So it can use for starting.
And you think wat a inverter do if its starts up ?
1000a pul for a sec normal on that moment.

So its normal .

See specs

The OP posted about the Over Voltage and Under Voltage settings being unsafe. You responded about the current limits. Not the same subject.

Daddy Tanuki · Thursday at 7:58 AM

Horsefly said:
The OP posted about the Over Voltage and Under Voltage settings being unsafe. You responded about the current limits. Not the same subject.

Damn... your right!

Daddy Tanuki · Thursday at 8:00 AM

that being said, the charge is set at 3.65... not the best but it is the upper limit for many makers. the discharge is low though.

Suijkerbuijk · Thursday at 8:02 AM

Horsefly said:
The OP posted about the Over Voltage and Under Voltage settings being unsafe. You responded about the current limits. Not the same subject.

Go learn what a max cell can be for its kill.
That about 4.2 volt .
And the low cell volt is about 2.0volt .
Its are in the specs of lfp and a lithium battery

So nothing wrong with that bms specs .

Technical Information LiFePO4 Care Guide: Looking after your lithium batteries

LiFePO4 Care Guide: Looking after your lithium batteries - Technical Information LiFePO4 Care Guide: Looking after your lithium batteries

www.evworks.com.au

upnorthandpersonal · Thursday at 8:44 AM

Suijkerbuijk said:
That about 4.2 volt .
And the low cell volt is about 2.0volt .

That depends entirely on which LFP battery. The old ones (decade ago or so, ~~and maybe current Winston cells~~), yes. In the mean time the chemistry has been adjusted. If you take an EVE 100Ah cell to 4.2V for a while, watch it balloon.

Daddy Tanuki · Thursday at 8:48 AM

upnorthandpersonal said:
That depends entirely on which LFP battery. The old ones (decade ago or so), yes. In the mean time the chemistry has been adjusted. If you take an EVE 100Ah cell to 4.2V for a while, watch it balloon.

the winstons when i ordered them last year were listed as 4 volt max charge. i went to their site to reread to see what my specs were and realized that they had updated the sheets. the newest versions are only good to 3.8 max with a 3.65 recommendation.

things they be a changing, thats for sure...

Suijkerbuijk · Thursday at 9:13 AM

Daddy Tanuki said:
the winstons when i ordered them last year were listed as 4 volt max charge. i went to their site to reread to see what my specs were and realized that they had updated the sheets. the newest versions are only good to 3.8 max with a 3.65 recommendation.

things they be a changing, thats for sure...

Well than old bms you can really not use on a new serie.
Its just 0.1 volt differences for it disconnect.
Really that 3.65 vs 3.75 story is what you let a bms set it off for a charger .
My own bms that is program to shut down charge by 3.75 volt
On 3.65 volt i have a warning first .

Ts forget that volt are never really stabel it go up and down well its balance the cells
That will be reason that by 3.75 a charge disconnected and not by the 3.65 volt
Cells are go balance by 3.45 volt and and 3.55volt .
So long the cell is around its threshold of 3.65 its fine for balance the cells.

0.1 volt looks like a lot but its not really .

Bms is nog use for daily base .
Its use that if it go wrong and thare is no user around.
The systeem stay save.
So you your set your stuff under the stress hold of the bms .

Daddy Tanuki · Thursday at 9:32 AM

Suijkerbuijk said:
Well than old bms you can really not use on a new serie.
Its just 0.1 volt differences for it disconnect.
Really that 3.65 vs 3.75 story is what you let a bms set it off for a charger .
My own bms that is program to shut down charge by 3.75 volt
On 3.65 volt i have a warning first .

Ts forget that volt are never really stabel it go up and down well its balance the cells
That will be reason that by 3.75 a charge disconnected and not by the 3.65 volt
Cells are go balance by 3.45 volt and and 3.55volt .
So long the cell is around its threshold of 3.65 its fine for balance the cells.

0.1 volt looks like a lot but its not really .

Bms is nog use for daily base .
Its use that if it go wrong and thare is no user around.
The systeem stay save.
So you your set your stuff under the stress hold of the bms .

I use the smart versions of the BMS and i have mine et to disconnect at 3.6 so no worries for me.

zedconnor · Thursday at 11:16 PM

Daddy Tanuki said:
if you had read my entire post you would have noticed how I said that you can have the parameters set at the factory when you order it... so there might not be a way for you to modify it, but it can be when they make it and initially setup the chipset.

as far as are the setting dangerous? it does depend upon the battery bank you are using. I use 400 amp hour winstons that can discharge safely I might add at 3c so thats 1200 amp hours for one cell for what...20 minutes? it can also pulse discharge at 10C...

just because you play around with little cells does not mean everybody does....you could either up your game on the cells you use, or just buy an adjustable BMS DALY...JK... JBD... Orion, whatever.

That is interesting to request the seller for specific parameters on a dumb bms. I highly doubt they would agree to do this because I only usually order about 10 or 20 pcs.

I am not a user. I build packs and sell them. I want to avoid using crap bmses. But for applications where longetivity and robustness is preferred, these dumb bmses are better than Smart/Software BMSes.
I'll ask around if they can customize their parameters.

zedconnor · Thursday at 11:19 PM

Suijkerbuijk said:
Well than old bms you can really not use on a new serie.
Its just 0.1 volt differences for it disconnect.
Really that 3.65 vs 3.75 story is what you let a bms set it off for a charger .
My own bms that is program to shut down charge by 3.75 volt
On 3.65 volt i have a warning first .

Ts forget that volt are never really stabel it go up and down well its balance the cells
That will be reason that by 3.75 a charge disconnected and not by the 3.65 volt
Cells are go balance by 3.45 volt and and 3.55volt .
So long the cell is around its threshold of 3.65 its fine for balance the cells.

0.1 volt looks like a lot but its not really .

Bms is nog use for daily base .
Its use that if it go wrong and thare is no user around.
The systeem stay save.
So you your set your stuff under the stress hold of the bms .

Why are you still spouting nonsense. There's so many updated resources on the forum.
BMS is for DAILY USAGE. It's not a friggin DC Breaker!
Go and learn for a week before commenting please. I do not have any more time to reply to you.

upnorthandpersonal · Thursday at 11:37 PM

zedconnor said:
BMS is for DAILY USAGE. It's not a friggin DC Breaker!

Playing devil's advocate here, and trying to see past the language barrier: what I think he means is that the BMS should not be the device that cuts off charging on a daily basis with its cell overvoltage protection. It's a protection feature after all (like a breaker), not a charge controller - the charge controller should be configured properly to stop charging (or using a communication BMS, but I digress).

Keep things civil people.

zedconnor · Saturday at 12:27 PM

upnorthandpersonal said:
Playing devil's advocate here, and trying to see past the language barrier: what I think he means is that the BMS should not be the device that cuts off charging on a daily basis with its cell overvoltage protection. It's a protection feature after all (like a breaker), not a charge controller - the charge controller should be configured properly to stop charging (or using a communication BMS, but I digress).

Keep things civil people.

I apologize for the harshness. It has been a very rough week with many sleepless nights for me.
Sorry everyone involved.

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