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Hawaii Condo Living

nakad1@808 said:
Unfortunately, Amazon does not ship lithium batteries to Hawaii.
Click to expand...

AGM is approved for air cargo (don't know what that costs! by sea could be cheaper)
AGM will give you 200 to 700 cycles to 70% DoD. OK for backup. Costs more than lower priced LiFePO4.
Could be an option for your UPS.
I have 20 kWh (14kWh usable) 48V of SunXtender as whole-house backup. About $6000 today.
You could get 5kWh for $1500 (2x 6V 405 Ah) or smaller, 1x 12V.

You could get an automotive "deep cycle" starting battery like Odyssey, about $300 to $400 apiece. Rig to charge while you're driving car, or from PV.

3 day power outage, would rather have PV than oversize battery.
PV panel secured over balcony railing as suggested. Or mounted as an awning if allowed. Probably not many hours of sun due to building shading.

Put a roof rack on your car, mount panels flat there.
Either drape an extension cord (AC or DC) or get a dolly to move a battery back & forth.
 
nakad1@808 said:
Great idea since they'd be there just for a small part of the day. Unless the HOA gets involved in any way.
Mahalo !
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Well hopefully if you are using it because grid is down they would have more serious issues to worry about like their own places.
 
Hedges said:
AGM is approved for air cargo (don't know what that costs! by sea could be cheaper)
AGM will give you 200 to 700 cycles to 70% DoD. OK for backup. Costs more than lower priced LiFePO4.
Could be an option for your UPS.
I have 20 kWh (14kWh usable) 48V of SunXtender as whole-house backup. About $6000 today.
You could get 5kWh for $1500 (2x 6V 405 Ah) or smaller, 1x 12V.

You could get an automotive "deep cycle" starting battery like Odyssey, about $300 to $400 apiece. Rig to charge while you're driving car, or from PV.

3 day power outage, would rather have PV than oversize battery.
PV panel secured over balcony railing as suggested. Or mounted as an awning if allowed. Probably not many hours of sun due to building shading.

Put a roof rack on your car, mount panels flat there.
Either drape an extension cord (AC or DC) or get a dolly to move a battery back & forth.
Click to expand...
Thank you Hedges for this. Could you share with me what AGM stands for ?
Unfortunately, I don't believe the HOA would allow an extension cord of that length from our condo parking lot to my unit on the 3rd floor.
Could you share your reasoning why for a 3 day outage, a PV would be better than say a battery storage rack with multiple batteries ? Just to help me in this learning process better. Appreciate your input and insight here and thank you !
 
nakad1@808 said:
Nice article DIYrich. Thank you for sharing that and bringing it to my attention ! Our HOA is not predatory so I don't believe they would take issue for the allotted time we normally see sunshine. Mahalo !
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It is an architectural look issue. They may not want to allow a bunch of random things hanging from the railing disturbing the look. If you only hang them when there is a power outtage, that might be ok. If you have them out every day to save $'s, that is a different issue.
 
AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat
Similar to FLA Flooded lead-acid, except sulfuric acid electrolyte is held by capillary action in fiberglass separators, making it spill proof.
Catalytic caps recombine H2 & O2, preventing water loss unless overcharged (which causes permanent loss and damage.)

PV panels cost about $0.005/kWh (amortized over 20 years), while AGM batteries cost $0.50/kWh (amortized over 700 cycles, or other price and cycle life) and LiFePO4 costs $0.05/kWh (amortized over 6000 cycles.)

Infrequent power failures, AGM or FLA or LiFePO4 could be most cost-effective. But limited capacity, have to plan for the worst. If you guess low and power is out for a week not 3 days you still lose the foot.

PV cost effective if output is used continuously (easy with grid tie, net meter or zero export) or used often enough given the 1/10th or 1/100th cost relative to batteries.
PV produces every day (though reduced 90% or more during overcast, need full sun.)

Portable generator is another option. Keep door closed AND use a CO alarm inside. Normally recommended to be a distance from the home, so balcony is a problem.

Run the numbers, for cost and days of power available for your fridge.
Determine if carrying AGM battery from the car is practical, e.g. swap battery once per day? Depending on weight, capacity, consumption of fridge.
 
" It doesn't sound like to complex a setup"
Dr Phil always says, Tell me how that works out for you.

Refrigerators ae real battery killers. You need to move away from a pedestrian solar system in order for that to work. Defrost needs to be disabled, inverter can only run when necessary and be controlled to run only when battery is nearly full, and a bunch of other things. You can't battery our way out of this problem because you are limited in your solar space. You will have to take extra steps o protect the battery.

I know these things because I live with limited sun access for five months at a time and I had to take extreme measures. But I have the technology to do it. I run my front loader from panels. That is nothing compared to a refrigerator. I run my house with just a car battery.
 
nakad1@808 said:
That sounds like a affordable solution Brucey ! Unfortunately, Amazon does not ship lithium batteries to Hawaii. Your experience provides me with some valuable insight though and it's much appreciated ! Mahalo !
Click to expand...
Does a shipper like FedEx or UPS ship lithium to Hawaii?

You might want to contact one of the battery sellers directly. Or one of the companies that ship Victron nationally to see if "nationally" includes Hawaii. Maybe @SignatureSolarJess (Signature Solar) or @HighTechLab (Current Connected) can find a way to ship you some batteries to Hawaii.

You could also look into shipping from China. There are a few vendors on Aliexpress that some members like.
There are a lot of us that have gotten great customer service from Amy Wan at Luyuan Technologies on Alibaba. Amy is awesome and gave some of the best customer service I have gotten from any company including from the US.
I know shipping is a lot more for completed batteries as opposed to DIY battery kits, but she will be very upfront with you about what she can do (like shipping to Hawaii) and the cost to do so. You want to communicate with her by chat in her Alibaba webstore.
I hope one of these options can help you get what you need.

There has got to be some way to get a lithium battery to Hawaii!
As you are in a condo, I would lean towards LiFePO4 or LFP batteries rather than a deep cycle lead battery. LFP weigh a fraction of lead for the same amount of energy. They have no off-gassing which healthier for you. They can deliver a constant voltage over a much longer range so your inverter will run and appliances will better and happier. Oh, and they will last many times longer.
 
DIYrich said:
It is an architectural look issue. They may not want to allow a bunch of random things hanging from the railing disturbing the look. If you only hang them when there is a power outtage, that might be ok. If you have them out every day to save $'s, that is a different issue.
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe I would be the least of their concerns. Our unit faces the backside of the property with no visual from the street so that kind of works in our favor probably. Mahalo !
 
Hedges said:
AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat
Similar to FLA Flooded lead-acid, except sulfuric acid electrolyte is held by capillary action in fiberglass separators, making it spill proof.
Catalytic caps recombine H2 & O2, preventing water loss unless overcharged (which causes permanent loss and damage.)

PV panels cost about $0.005/kWh (amortized over 20 years), while AGM batteries cost $0.50/kWh (amortized over 700 cycles, or other price and cycle life) and LiFePO4 costs $0.05/kWh (amortized over 6000 cycles.)

Infrequent power failures, AGM or FLA or LiFePO4 could be most cost-effective. But limited capacity, have to plan for the worst. If you guess low and power is out for a week not 3 days you still lose the foot.

PV cost effective if output is used continuously (easy with grid tie, net meter or zero export) or used often enough given the 1/10th or 1/100th cost relative to batteries.
PV produces every day (though reduced 90% or more during overcast, need full sun.)

Portable generator is another option. Keep door closed AND use a CO alarm inside. Normally recommended to be a distance from the home, so balcony is a problem.

Run the numbers, for cost and days of power available for your fridge.
Determine if carrying AGM battery from the car is practical, e.g. swap battery once per day? Depending on weight, capacity, consumption of fridge.
Click to expand...
Hedges, I think Google Translate may be of some assistance for the beginning of your post lol. That flew way over my head as far as my comprehension goes .... <grin>.
Thank you for the explanation regarding extended outages and how PV and multiple batteries effectively treat a situation in different ways and how our circumstance can benefit from them.
Mahalo !
 
nakad1@808 said:
That sounds like a affordable solution Brucey ! Unfortunately, Amazon does not ship lithium batteries to Hawaii. Your experience provides me with some valuable insight though and it's much appreciated ! Mahalo !
Click to expand...
Try Inter Island Solar Supply (Kahului) and Greentech Renewables (also Kahului.)
 
DIYrich said:
3 days worth of batteries is a lot of power that is rarely used. Panels can be used every day, and are much cheaper.
Click to expand...
I see DIYrich. Perhaps a combination of both could work with the limited PV exposure time afforded to me being in a condo ?
 
efficientPV said:
" It doesn't sound like to complex a setup"
Dr Phil always says, Tell me how that works out for you.

Refrigerators ae real battery killers. You need to move away from a pedestrian solar system in order for that to work. Defrost needs to be disabled, inverter can only run when necessary and be controlled to run only when battery is nearly full, and a bunch of other things. You can't battery our way out of this problem because you are limited in your solar space. You will have to take extra steps o protect the battery.

I know these things because I live with limited sun access for five months at a time and I had to take extreme measures. But I have the technology to do it. I run my front loader from panels. That is nothing compared to a refrigerator. I run my house with just a car battery.
Click to expand...
I see efficientPV. I need to understand this process better. What extra steps are needed to protect the battery if I may ask ?
Thank you for your input !
 
SoggyShoes said:
Does a shipper like FedEx or UPS ship lithium to Hawaii?

You might want to contact one of the battery sellers directly. Or one of the companies that ship Victron nationally to see if "nationally" includes Hawaii. Maybe @SignatureSolarJess (Signature Solar) or @HighTechLab (Current Connected) can find a way to ship you some batteries to Hawaii.

You could also look into shipping from China. There are a few vendors on Aliexpress that some members like.
There are a lot of us that have gotten great customer service from Amy Wan at Luyuan Technologies on Alibaba. Amy is awesome and gave some of the best customer service I have gotten from any company including from the US.
I know shipping is a lot more for completed batteries as opposed to DIY battery kits, but she will be very upfront with you about what she can do (like shipping to Hawaii) and the cost to do so. You want to communicate with her by chat in her Alibaba webstore.
I hope one of these options can help you get what you need.

There has got to be some way to get a lithium battery to Hawaii!
As you are in a condo, I would lean towards LiFePO4 or LFP batteries rather than a deep cycle lead battery. LFP weigh a fraction of lead for the same amount of energy. They have no off-gassing which healthier for you. They can deliver a constant voltage over a much longer range so your inverter will run and appliances will better and happier. Oh, and they will last many times longer.
Click to expand...
Great information SoggyShoes ! I do believe Signature Solar does with certain weight limits as a restriction. I will look into High Tech Lab to see if they're able to provide some assistance for us. Will also look into your recommendations of Aliexpress and Alibaba. Shipping to Hawaii is always a premium price for everything due to most things having to be shipped by air. Thank you for the LFP explanation and is most likely the best choice of battery for us and maybe less restrictive as far as shipping goes. Appreciate your thoughts !
Mahalo !
 
nakad1@808 said:
Unfortunately DIYrich, we're located on the 3rd floor of an 18 story building. Restrictive HOA's would probably not allow it and there's already a Verizon tower at the top also which the HOA receives funds for. Mahalo for your input !
Click to expand...
I would get a hook to hang them on the rail. But if they fall, you will have issues. And the management may reject any solar out there unless installed by a licensed electrician. Or they may say no way across the board.

Hope you can figure something.
 
Some refrigerators are very low power consumption (not mine, at least some of them draw about 300W constantly.)
People have mentioned a chest freezer with Inkbird fridge thermostat.

You can buy a very lower power consumption refrigeration system, maybe something you transfer the food to during an outage or before leaving the island. For a fraction the cost of the power system. Then a smaller system can power it.
 
Wild idea, but get a cooler and an ICE MAKER.
You can run the icemaker when you want to, when you need to, and shut the damb inverter off.
This makes sense to me with extremely limited solar.

What does everyone think?

If you have excess, you can help people with ice or shut up the nosy ones with ice.

Probably a terrible idea :)

Tho you could possible not even need solar or an inverter at all if its a planned outage
 
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Look at a Bluetti or EcoFlow type Solar Generator that you can expand as needed
 
SoggyShoes said:
Does a shipper like FedEx or UPS ship lithium to Hawaii?

You might want to contact one of the battery sellers directly. Or one of the companies that ship Victron nationally to see if "nationally" includes Hawaii. Maybe @SignatureSolarJess (Signature Solar) or @HighTechLab (Current Connected) can find a way to ship you some batteries to Hawaii.

You could also look into shipping from China. There are a few vendors on Aliexpress that some members like.
There are a lot of us that have gotten great customer service from Amy Wan at Luyuan Technologies on Alibaba. Amy is awesome and gave some of the best customer service I have gotten from any company including from the US.
I know shipping is a lot more for completed batteries as opposed to DIY battery kits, but she will be very upfront with you about what she can do (like shipping to Hawaii) and the cost to do so. You want to communicate with her by chat in her Alibaba webstore.
I hope one of these options can help you get what you need.

There has got to be some way to get a lithium battery to Hawaii!
As you are in a condo, I would lean towards LiFePO4 or LFP batteries rather than a deep cycle lead battery. LFP weigh a fraction of lead for the same amount of energy. They have no off-gassing which healthier for you. They can deliver a constant voltage over a much longer range so your inverter will run and appliances will better and happier. Oh, and they will last many times longer.
Click to expand...
Thanks for tagging me!

We do ship to Hawaii, we use freight forwarders to ship overseas :)
 
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