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You guys are a bad influence

G

going_commando

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Joined
Jul 15, 2024
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20
Location
New Hampshire
Well, I'm very new here, but in the past 10 days I have watched a bunch of youtube, including a bunch of Will's videos, and have been converted from "solar is stupid" to ordering solar panels. I have 18 Boviet 440w bifacials that a supply house (I'm an electrician by trade) we use is closing out that I will be getting the beginning of August. I am still figuring out inverters, batteries and whatnot, but do want to say thank you to you all, for all the freely traded information and ideas. I had no idea how little I knew about solar (which is quite embarrassing, being a master electrician) until digging around on here.

I am planning on doing a pergola-type structure for the panels, net metering, with battery backup. The roof layout on my house sucks for panels, so roof mount was out, and not having to do rapid shut down is a decent cost savings. Right now I am leaning heavily towards an 18kPV to run my whole house (100A service, 5.5kWhr peak, 25kWhr/day max on my Emporia so far) and an EG4 14.3kWhr indoor to start for short term backup. Going through the paperwork involved with net metering, I want everything to be squared away UL and NEC wise, and this combo appears to the be most affordable option with a decent track record.

Hopefully as my experience grows, I will be able to contribute more. I've been doing residential, commercial, and industrial electrical work for 20 years, worked on grid-tied hydro power for years, and am also EPA 608 certified to work with refrigerants. I don't foresee solar becoming part of my professional purview, but you never know! I am simply amazed at all the stuff that I have snoozed through in my state mandated code update classes when it comes to solar and battery backup, so I definitely have some brushing up to do on code compliance.
 
Brett V said:
You’re not the first to tell me I’m a bad influence 😆
Take your time, plan and learn before buying too much stuff. It’ll save you some inevitable mistakes. Welcome!
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm terrible at that. I'm more of an act in haste, repent in leisure kind of guy. The panels were $126/ea, and they get delivered to my shop without me having to be there, and if they are damaged I will get a replacement in a couple days, so it seemed like a good idea at the time. I am trying my best to be patient and come up with a plan for the rest of the system, however. The panels seem like the cheapest part of the whole deal, and I don't want to screw up the rest.
 
going_commando said:
Well, I'm very new here, but in the past 10 days I have watched a bunch of youtube, including a bunch of Will's videos, and have been converted from "solar is stupid" to ordering solar panels. I have 18 Boviet 440w bifacials that a supply house (I'm an electrician by trade) we use is closing out that I will be getting the beginning of August. I am still figuring out inverters, batteries and whatnot, but do want to say thank you to you all, for all the freely traded information and ideas. I had no idea how little I knew about solar (which is quite embarrassing, being a master electrician) until digging around on here.

I am planning on doing a pergola-type structure for the panels, net metering, with battery backup. The roof layout on my house sucks for panels, so roof mount was out, and not having to do rapid shut down is a decent cost savings. Right now I am leaning heavily towards an 18kPV to run my whole house (100A service, 5.5kWhr peak, 25kWhr/day max on my Emporia so far) and an EG4 14.3kWhr indoor to start for short term backup. Going through the paperwork involved with net metering, I want everything to be squared away UL and NEC wise, and this combo appears to the be most affordable option with a decent track record.

Hopefully as my experience grows, I will be able to contribute more. I've been doing residential, commercial, and industrial electrical work for 20 years, worked on grid-tied hydro power for years, and am also EPA 608 certified to work with refrigerants. I don't foresee solar becoming part of my professional purview, but you never know! I am simply amazed at all the stuff that I have snoozed through in my state mandated code update classes when it comes to solar and battery backup, so I definitely have some brushing up to do on code compliance.
Click to expand...
What’s amazing is all the choices for inverters and batteries from just three years ago when I started. As for codes, they are evolving even quicker, so fast the inspectors are behind the times. Welcome to the fray.
 
going_commando said:
Well, I'm very new here, but in the past 10 days I have watched a bunch of youtube, including a bunch of Will's videos, and have been converted from "solar is stupid" to ordering solar panels. I have 18 Boviet 440w bifacials that a supply house (I'm an electrician by trade) we use is closing out that I will be getting the beginning of August. I am still figuring out inverters, batteries and whatnot, but do want to say thank you to you all, for all the freely traded information and ideas. I had no idea how little I knew about solar (which is quite embarrassing, being a master electrician) until digging around on here.

I am planning on doing a pergola-type structure for the panels, net metering, with battery backup. The roof layout on my house sucks for panels, so roof mount was out, and not having to do rapid shut down is a decent cost savings. Right now I am leaning heavily towards an 18kPV to run my whole house (100A service, 5.5kWhr peak, 25kWhr/day max on my Emporia so far) and an EG4 14.3kWhr indoor to start for short term backup. Going through the paperwork involved with net metering, I want everything to be squared away UL and NEC wise, and this combo appears to the be most affordable option with a decent track record.

Hopefully as my experience grows, I will be able to contribute more. I've been doing residential, commercial, and industrial electrical work for 20 years, worked on grid-tied hydro power for years, and am also EPA 608 certified to work with refrigerants. I don't foresee solar becoming part of my professional purview, but you never know! I am simply amazed at all the stuff that I have snoozed through in my state mandated code update classes when it comes to solar and battery backup, so I definitely have some brushing up to do on code compliance.
Click to expand...
Welcome. The 18kpv looks like it'll do everything you need.

If you can wait a bit the growatt sph10000tl hu-us should be widely available for about half the price.
 
JWLV said:
Good choice on the 18kPV as it was just listed with CEC (about 8 months ago) according to this announcement: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-18kpv-powerpro-wallmount-14-3kwh-is-now-cec.74125/
Click to expand...

Yeah, they have done a great job getting approvals of just about every kind. My preference would be to get equipment made by a a more established company (one that I've heard of before the last 10ish days of learning), but as far as I can find they are the only readily accessible, reasonably priced UL approved inverter/battery system out there. I was very intrigued about the new Midnite "The One" inverter, until I saw the battery communication options and saw how limited they were, and from what I can find Midnite doesn't make batteries so UL 9540 (or whatever it is, I get dyslexic with all these standards) is unlikely to happen for a while. I'll have to double check, but I do believe my power company requires that for net metering approval with a battery system.

With the math that I've done, using the PV Watts site, with net metering and an 18k and 1 battery my payback would be in the 5 year range based on my current usage due to power company credits. Our electric rates are going to be about $0.26/kWhr starting next month, which definitely helps the payback, and then if the power company hops on the California band wagon with net metering, I can always add more batteries over time and make the system more self sufficient. I played around with the numbers of doing a straight grid tied, micro inverter system for the sake of comparison, and the price difference ends up being the price of the battery, with a lot less flexibility in the future.
 
Welcome, seeing that "free" energy coursing through your wires and filling your EV (or gaining you credit from the supply authority) is definitely addictive!!

Way back in 2019 we started with 4 x 300W panels and a couple of el-cheapo Chinese micro-inverters to test the water with Madam.

She liked what she saw!

Here we are in 2024 with 18kWP on every available bit of flat roof along with 70kWh of LiFePO4 storage and running off-grid. We retain the grid supply as backup, the standing charge is about a dollar a month here in sunny Thailand (it's currently pissing down!!).

We also have a stack of 33 x 340W panels sitting looking forlorn, the roof of the (steel-framed, I think ahead) chicken house looks rather inviting!
 
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Another fun thing I learned yesterday is my power company requires extra engineering and such with systems capable of outputting more than 10kW to the grid, which the 18k and other larger inverters can do, regardless of PV array size. I have pondered doing an off grid install and say F net metering, but with the net metering I could use the credits to crank my heat pump and decrease my home heating costs deeper into the winter than originally planned, but that might be getting too greedy, especially since this place is a duplex and my tenant has to have the fossil fuel systems running anyway. Off grid opens up more possibilities and frees up money for more batteries for power outages, so that's cool too.

Decisions decisions.
 
In many jurisdictions net metering is slowly going away or so unfair that you wouldn't want it anyway (like selling back at 1c per kwh). I'm not sure how it is in NH, so you might want to check and also see what new legislations might be in the works.
 
Keep in mind EG4 inverters are known as “Beta Boxes” so as long as you are aware of the buggy nature and are okay with that then you’ll be less disappointed. If you do go with something EG4 at least get it from Current Connected not Signature Solar.

I’d go with a Midnight Solar The One or Sol-Ark instead. Or a pair of the new UL listed 10k Victron Quattros 😉
 
going_commando said:
Another fun thing I learned yesterday is my power company requires extra engineering and such with systems capable of outputting more than 10kW to the grid, which the 18k and other larger inverters can do, regardless of PV array size. I have pondered doing an off grid install and say F net metering, but with the net metering I could use the credits to crank my heat pump and decrease my home heating costs deeper into the winter than originally planned, but that might be getting too greedy, especially since this place is a duplex and my tenant has to have the fossil fuel systems running anyway. Off grid opens up more possibilities and frees up money for more batteries for power outages, so that's cool too.

Decisions decisions.
Click to expand...
Then get a 10kw inverter like the growatt I mentioned. Simple
NC_hydro said:
Keep in mind EG4 inverters are known as “Beta Boxes”
Click to expand...

Only in your mind
NC_hydro said:
I’d go with a Midnight Solar The One or Sol-Ark instead. Or a pair of the new UL listed 10k Victron Quattros 😉
Click to expand...
Midnite solar? You think the eg4 is a beta box but then recommend the similarly Chinese, more buggy midnite solar?
 
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going_commando said:
I will look into all the suggestions, thanks guys! I think my head is going to explode from all of the research and learning I've been doing the past couple weeks.
Click to expand...
This is Normal. It took me a year to decide on my system and even then mistakes were made.

the facts about your system are:
  • you have net metering available
  • there are extra hoops to jump through if your inverter is greater than 10kw
  • you want battery backup
  • ground mount as roof layout is bad and save a little bit of money not having rapid shutdown
  • 5.5kwh peak, 25kwh a day

so the first and most important rule is : if you have net metering available, take advantage of it. The rest of the design considerations will flow from this

next, do you go 10k or lower inverter or something like 18kpv? if you are using 25kwh a day and 5.5kwh max you likely don't need anywhere close to 12kw inverter. I believe you would save time and hassle just doing a 10kw inverter. added benefit you'll save money

another consideration is that its easier to get an agreement in place and then add to your system later, than getting everything in place before the connection agreement. many people dont even permit for batteries, and then when they are connected add batteries later.
 
JWLV said:
In many jurisdictions net metering is slowly going away or so unfair that you wouldn't want it anyway (like selling back at 1c per kwh). I'm not sure how it is in NH, so you might want to check and also see what new legislations might be in the works.
Click to expand...
I agree. Considering you have net-metering available now, I would take advantage of it but plan for the future to go fully off grid and get an EG18k or something similar. But I don't know what the "extra engineering" entails.
 
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