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Why shouldn't I buy a 120AH Deep Cycle Battery at COSTCO for half the price of a GEL ?

Short_Shot said:
Except for the comparatively tiny lifespan.
Of you can get the lead cheap enough then sure, but it's gotta be reaaalll cheap.
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Tiny is a bombastic word

People really don’t have to convince anyone of the advantages of lifepo. Exaggerating to make lead acid look as if it were a totally ridiculous consideration like fla suddenly lost 66% of their usefulness when lifepo became an obtainable thing does people a disservice.

I’m not defending anything. However it is a fact I’ve been running ~8mos of the year for over three years now on fla; no family members have died as a result and my bank accounts are growing. FLA has not sent me to the poorhouse.

Give folks the tools and information to make wise choices.
Sliced bread has been around a long time and survived without fluffy-words help. Lithium batteries will eventually be the standard, too.
 
olignyf said:
OMG I just checked the price of Lithium batteries, a 100 AH is 1299$CAD :eek:
volts.ca

Battleborn 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery

Boost your energy setup with the Battle Born 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 battery. Designed to perfectly replace lead-acid batteries, this lightweight powerhouse offers the ultimate performance for boats, RVs, trailers & off-grid installation. Shop online with Canada-wide shipping at the best price with a...
volts.ca volts.ca
Click to expand...
That’s an insane price?
 
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12VoltInstalls said:
Tiny is a bombastic word

People really don’t have to convince anyone of the advantages of lifepo. Exaggerating to make lead acid look as if it were a totally ridiculous consideration like fla suddenly lost 66% of their usefulness when lifepo became an obtainable thing does people a disservice.

I’m not defending anything. However it is a fact I’ve been running ~8mos of the year for over three years now on fla; no family members have died as a result and my bank accounts are growing. FLA has not sent me to the poorhouse.

Give folks the tools and information to make wise choices.
Sliced bread has been around a long time and survived without fluffy-words help. Lithium batteries will eventually be the standard, too.
Click to expand...
None of that was the point of what I said.
The fact that you can get 5 to 10x the life span was.

At no point did I say lead acid was not usable or that it was incredibly dangerous (though you should still vent the area).

Just that there is a better option available in every single aspect except up front cost.
 
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Short_Shot said:
The fact that you can get 5 to 10x the life span was
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That’s not a fact: It’s an occurrence in some circumstances.

Either way, it’s an apples and oranges comparison that makes the conclusion faulty. Oranges make a poor pie, apples make a great pie. Neither is useless. Nearly like comparing a Prius to a Porsche.

If that were a/b carte blanc true then lifepo batteries would have a 50 year lifespan. I don’t think we’re there yet
 
olignyf said:
Hi,
I saw this deep cycle battery at COSTCO at 150$CAD. It's half price of a 120AH GEL sealed battery.
If one keeps the battery outside during summer and don't care about hydrogen gas, why doesn't everybody buy those cheaper battery at COSTCO for their solar power installation?
Will it be half the lifetime or something?
View attachment 58325
View attachment 58324

Thanks folks!
Francois
Click to expand...

$150 Kirkland battery vs $799 on sale Battle Born Battery is basically a wash.

battlebornbatteries.com

100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery

The 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle battery is the pinnacle of battery technology and the lightweight drop-in replacement for lead acid batteries.
battlebornbatteries.com battlebornbatteries.com

You will need to replace the Kirkland battery at least three to four times in the next 10 years while the Battle Born Battery will most likely last ten years assuming proper care. So assuming no price change in 10 years for simple calculations, you can spend $799 today for 1 Battle Born or purchase 5 Kirkland batteries in the next 10 years.

Some Consideration Before You Buy
  • Do you know how to maintain batteries?
  • Do you want to do regular battery maintenance?
  • Does your battery charger support Lithium or only lead? You might need to purchase a new charger.
  • Can you afford the lithium battery and possibly the cost of a new charger today?
  • Can you afford a replacement lithium battery if you fail to maintain it?

These are questions that you need to answer to yourself to really be able to know which is the Best purchase fit for you.
 
It's really not. If you care for the lithium like you do your lead batteries they'll both last longer than expected and the lithium will last longer every time.

If you're comparing best case and worst case then sure, you might have a point.

You're making it apples to oranges because it suits your argument.

I can kill a lithium pack in 2 charges and make a lead acid last 15 years or I can ruin a lead acid overnight and take the lithium to my grave, but when caring for both properly the lithium still wins.
 
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Lt.Dan said:
If you can do that, your BMS is not working correctly then. It should be very difficult to kill a lithium in the proper circumstances.

Lead acid on the other hand, can be killed VERY easily.
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That's not the point lmao.

The point is with bad handling you can ruin either type and with good handling they last ages.
 
Short_Shot said:
That's not the point lmao.

The point is with bad handling you can ruin either type and with good handling they last ages.
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I don't think you get the point, I'm saying it's very difficult to misuse lifepo4. With bad handling, you still can't kill it.

I also want to add to the discussion, its pretty common knowledge you can get roughly 500-800 cycles out of a healthy FLA battery, and roughly 5000 cycles out of LiFePo4. Now the numbers say roughly 10x the life right there, but you gotta also count in the fact that after 500-800 cycles, a FLA is DEAD. BUT, after 5000 cycles on a LiFePo4, the battery will still carry roughly 80% of its capacity, meaning it could last 10,000+ cycles before it is DEAD like the FLA.
 
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Lt.Dan said:
I don't think you get the point, I'm saying it's very difficult to misuse lifepo4. With bad handling, you still can't kill it.

I also want to add to the discussion, its pretty common knowledge you can get roughly 500-800 cycles out of a healthy FLA battery, and roughly 5000 cycles out of LiFePo4. Now the numbers say roughly 10x the life right there, but you gotta also count in the fact that after 500-800 cycles, a FLA is DEAD. BUT, after 5000 cycles on a LiFePo4, the battery will still carry roughly 80% of its capacity, meaning it could last 10,000+ cycles before it is DEAD like the FLA.
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I get the point very well. My statement was that he is making this out to be apples and oranges when it's still a matter of proper handling.

Using a BMS properly is part of good handling practices. If you're treating a lead acid properly then you're probably intelligent enough to treat a lithium properly.

Your addition is of course valuable. I'm still confused as to why the other guy is trying to state otherwise and claim that lfp batteries somehow *don't* last 5 to 10x longer "in some cases" when in actuality the proper handling as stated makes that a worst case improvement, rather than his claimed best case.
 
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Problem is for those in Canada. They are getting bent over on price compared to us price. The OP seems to be pricing from the north.
$375 for us
$800cad
At that rate,,, I’d probably opt for a few years of FLA till it wasn’t stupid expensive just through price gouging.
 
Off Grid Thad said:
Problem is for those in Canada. They are getting bent over on price compared to us price. The OP seems to be pricing from the north.
$375 for us
$800cad
At that rate,,, I’d probably opt for a few years of FLA till it wasn’t stupid expensive just through price gouging.
Click to expand...
if I lived close enough to the boarder in Canada. I would buy it on amazon and have it delivered to a US locker and just pick it up for that price. DAMN !!
 
Off Grid Thad said:
Problem is for those in Canada. They are getting bent over on price compared to us price. The OP seems to be pricing from the north.
$375 for us
$800cad
At that rate,,, I’d probably opt for a few years of FLA till it wasn’t stupid expensive just through price gouging.
Click to expand...
ROAD TRIP!

If your just over the US boarder, it‘s time to go shopping in da USA!
Oh wait, you’re in lock down. No Travel For You!

If you could, how much of an issue would it be to buy in the USA and bring it back in Canada?
 
Short_Shot said:
It will also last 6 to 10 times longer.

Likely much more if you treat them properly.
You can also build your own DIY lithium battery and get nearly 3x the capacity for half the cost.
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As well as one could opt for an off brand label (some have been noted on WPs video reviews) …. and …. there is always the DIY option
 
Toss in a few sleeping bags, inverter, tv and a tent and say you went camping.
They won’t deliver to a locker, just tried.
You’ll find any number of us just to the south that would receive and hold them.
 
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There is a butcher shop in Prince William that makes the best moose jerky on the planet. I’d drive to the border for a pound of that.
 
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