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Need help with my solar setup please..

waywaynorcal

waywaynorcal

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Joined
Nov 11, 2020
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41
Location
far north ca
First and foremost.. I am not the brightest bulb in the string but through sheer tenacity I usually get things figured out. That being said I am having a difficult time with my solar setup. The setup is a 12v system with two Renogy 200 hybrid batteries linked together. My charge controller is an EPEVER 100 amp.
My inverter is a Giandel 4000w 8000w peak pure sine inverter 12v
I have four 335 watt panels for a total of 1340 watts. The system is wired in a series like the photo below. And the batteries are connected pos to pos and neg to neg as shown in the photo below.
My issue is my two Renogy batteries dont seem to be holding a full charge. I have done as much as I can to try and figure out what is going on. I am not sure how to test to see if they are holding a charge and if they are is the charge what it should be relative to the panels and wiring I have. Basically I am lost with this system at the moment and it has become frustrating. The system also lets out a beep now and again. It seems to beep when it reaches full charge and when it is below the charge. It seems with the batteries fully charged it should be running more than a small fish tank and one LED light. The batteries are under a year old and I was very careful following the instructions when I set this up. Most all of this stuff is less than 2 years old.
from my calculations I have roughly 2,560 watt hours
below are a few photos from this afternoon.
OH The ATS is temporally disconnected until I figure this out. The inverter is off as well.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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What is the no-load draw of the inverter? I haven't found that. See if it would explain missing watt-hours.

www.giandelmall.com

4000W Heavy Duty Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC12V or 24V to AC120V with 4 AC Outlets with Remote Control 2.4A USB and LED Display

About this item This product can only be shipped in the United States , because we dont support cross regional shipments. Giandel 4000w Heavy Duty Pure Sine Wave Inverter:4000W true sine wave,8000W peak power,with LED display,DC 12V,AC 120V with four AC Outlets and 1x2.4A USB port With a Remote...
www.giandelmall.com www.giandelmall.com
 
Sure those numbers aren't backwards? 6A 12V & 3A 24V would be same wattage.
You typed "06.A", was that 6A? 0.6A?

3A at 12V would be 36W, 864 Wh/day.
3A at 24V would be twice that, 1728 Wh/day.


"four 335 watt panels for a total of 1340 watts."
Average year round might be 5 hours effective sun, so ~ 7kWh. During these cloudy days (that I'm experiencing), much less.
No-load drain could consume a big part of production. My inverters draw 25W each. Some brands are less, many are more.

Maybe a small inverter with less draw could power 24 hour per day loads, use the big one when needed for heavy draw.
 
I typed it exactly how it is from the book. 0.6A (24)
yes... that may be the problem. I suppose I could leave it unplugged and use it only when needed....
 
Then you put the "." in the wrong place.

But I don't believe 3A for 12V model an 0.6A for 24V model. They would be about the same power consumption.
What it might have is a "sleep" mode, use less power an wake up periodically to look for an AC load.

Maybe you can find a 24V pump for the fish tank, skip the inverter.
 
waywaynorcal said:
First and foremost.. I am not the brightest bulb in the string but through sheer tenacity I usually get things figured out. That being said I am having a difficult time with my solar setup. The setup is a 12v system with two Renogy 200 hybrid batteries linked together. My charge controller is an EPEVER 100 amp.
My inverter is a Giandel 4000w 8000w peak pure sine inverter 12v
I have four 335 watt panels for a total of 1340 watts. The system is wired in a series like the photo below. And the batteries are connected pos to pos and neg to neg as shown in the photo below.
My issue is my two Renogy batteries dont seem to be holding a full charge. I have done as much as I can to try and figure out what is going on. I am not sure how to test to see if they are holding a charge and if they are is the charge what it should be relative to the panels and wiring I have. Basically I am lost with this system at the moment and it has become frustrating. The system also lets out a beep now and again. It seems to beep when it reaches full charge and when it is below the charge. It seems with the batteries fully charged it should be running more than a small fish tank and one LED light. The batteries are under a year old and I was very careful following the instructions when I set this up. Most all of this stuff is less than 2 years old.
from my calculations I have roughly 2,560 watt hours
below are a few photos from this afternoon.
OH The ATS is temporally disconnected until I figure this out. The inverter is off as well.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
my questions : 1st . what is your Array set up ? paralllel or series. Your chart connection is incomplete , from the way it was drawn, it must be 2 series running in parallel. if u r arranging the arrays in series parallel then u must complete the wiring as per the series parallel chart as attached. + - must be connected for each arrays before running it in parallel, This kind of set up is 24V sys minimum

2nd : check in your manual for the maximum pv/watt for 12 V system. I notice that u r using 12 V system from ur battery setup. According to my calculation , your max PV or watt for 12 V system is only 1200 watt vs 1340 watt but Epever Max 100 Amps could be slighly higher than this. For 24 sys your wire size gauge minimum should at least be able to withstand 55.83 amps max. 48V sys , wire gauge size minimum at least can withstand 27.91 amps max. You will save a lot on wiring by using higher voltage but i would prefer 24V coz 48V can kill you instantly

3rd : U might have to use 24V sys for your solar set up therefore you will have to connect your battery in series instead of pARALLEL 12 V system.


4TH . u cannot use 12v Invertor on 24V sys therefore either get a new 24V Invertor or use step down to convert 24V to 12 V

sorry for my English, Hope this help
 

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SO.. it looks like I have the batteries wired incorrectly? Below in the photo is how they are wired and the photo you posted.
Wire them in series 24V for 2 battery system? Get a step down? If so can you recommend a good step down?
 

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"4TH . u cannot use 12v Invertor on 24V sys therefore either get a new 24V Invertor or use step down to convert 24V to 12 V"
The inverter he is using is a 12/24 volt inverter. I have the same inverter.
 
waywaynorcal said:
SO.. it looks like I have the batteries wired incorrectly? Below in the photo is how they are wired and the photo you posted.
Wire them in series 24V for 2 battery system? Get a step down? If so can you recommend a good step down?
Click to expand...

In your photo of the batteries, they are wired for parallel. The hand written diagram is correct for wiring the batteries in series.
 
waywaynorcal said:
just read through my Giandel and low and behold it is a 12/24.
Click to expand...
u dont need a step down if ur invertor can detect both 12/24 v automatically. If u r running 24V sys. U will have to use 60 Amps breaker or use this formula. = 1340/24 x1.25 = ______ amps. ur wire gauge also need to size according to 60amps max. To prevent lose of energy , use thicker wire gauge for both invertor and batterry. Ur invertor if used to the maximum load output = 4000 watt/24 = ( 166 amps) is expected to use up max 166 AMPS therefore u will need a thicker wire gauge that can accomodate such AMps. however u may use the 30 Amp if u r using 48V sys
 
Hedges said:
What is the no-load draw of the inverter? I haven't found that. See if it would explain missing watt-hours.

www.giandelmall.com

4000W Heavy Duty Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC12V or 24V to AC120V with 4 AC Outlets with Remote Control 2.4A USB and LED Display

About this item This product can only be shipped in the United States , because we dont support cross regional shipments. Giandel 4000w Heavy Duty Pure Sine Wave Inverter:4000W true sine wave,8000W peak power,with LED display,DC 12V,AC 120V with four AC Outlets and 1x2.4A USB port With a Remote...
www.giandelmall.com www.giandelmall.com
Click to expand...
this is a 12V invertor. The input is 9.8 to 16 VDC. U will damage the invertor if used on 24V sys
 
Just glancing thru some of the posts & your description, you have your batts wired in series. If you're using that inverter in 12v mode, you're over driving it & lucky you haven't fried it. 2nd, how much are you draining off the batts? You have 400 a/hrs @ 12v which means you shouldn't use more 200 a/hrs per cycle which comes to 2.4 kw. Draining a batt past 50% on a regular basis will kill batts pretty quick. A good way to check your batts capacity would be to put an accumulated kw meter between your inverter & the load. If you have that set up, run a load from fully charged batts til you've used 2.2 kw, the inverter will use roughly 10%. Shut it down & let the batts rest several hours then look at the voltage reading. If the batts are at 100% capacity you should get a reading of 24.4v. If it's any lower, your batts are deteriorated & how much depends on the volt reading. Here's a chart to give you an idea of the state your batts are in.
 

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Hi, thanks for the help! Any help is much appreciated. I'd like to get this system dialed in.
I am pretty sure my batteries are wired in parallel. The batteries I have are the same are the same, two Renogy gel hybrid. I have one battery facing one way and one facing the other in order to shorten the length of wiring.
 

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Oh my… so many responses that aren’t reading all the posts…

The inverter works on 12 OR 24V

his batteries are wired in parallel for 12V

His solar panels are wired in series/parallel, to the charge controller.

Continue.
 
waywaynorcal said:
Hi, thanks for the help! Any help is much appreciated. I'd like to get this system dialed in.
I am pretty sure my batteries are wired in parallel. The batteries I have are the same are the same, two Renogy gel hybrid. I have one battery facing one way and one facing the other in order to shorten the length of wiring.
Click to expand...
I just took as closer look at your batt wiring. It looks like you have a shunt on the positive with both inverter wires coming off the pos
waywaynorcal said:
Hi, thanks for the help! Any help is much appreciated. I'd like to get this system dialed in.
I am pretty sure my batteries are wired in parallel. The batteries I have are the same are the same, two Renogy gel hybrid. I have one battery facing one way and one facing the other in order to shorten the length of wiring.
Click to expand...
After taking a closer look at the batts, you do have them wired in parallel but you have both wires
going to the inverter coming off the positive. I don't get what you're doing there or how your getting any power at all? That's not going to work. It looks like you got a shunt on the positive, if that's so, remove the wire from the battery post & hook the positive wire to the shunt & the other to the negative.
 
Here is the battery to inverter to CC. I believe this is correct? The positive that goes to the inverter has a fuse on it as does the positive that goes to the charge controller also has a fuse.
 

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How is your MPPT configured to charge the batteries? Is it for a lead acid profile? What is your bulk / float settings? Do you have a battery charger for the bank when there is grid power?
 
Kdkool said:
How is your MPPT configured to charge the batteries? Is it for a lead acid profile? What is your bulk / float settings? Do you have a battery charger for the bank when there is grid power?
Click to expand...
Those are some of the issues I am trying to figure out. The profile is set for GEL and is correct for the batteries I am using. The bulk float settings I have not set manually and I am not entirely sure what is optimal for the setup I have.
I do not have a battery charger as of yet. I plan on getting one soon.
 
The physical wiring of your system looks to be fine. I think your problem can be one of two things.

1) A defective battery
2) An incorrect charging profile

For scenario #1, it's possible that you could have a defective battery that's pulling down on the other battery that's in parallel. Have you ever severely depleted the banks? I'd try removing one of them out of parallel configuration and let the system charge one battery at a time and see if one of them behaves significantly different from the other.

For scenario #2, are you using the EPEVER configuration tool? There is a bluetooth to RS485 to Bluetooth (Phone) and USB to RS485 (PC) configurator that you can use to configure those settings. It may just be that the default gel profile is not in agreement with what the Renogy batteries want. I would double check this. I would contact Renogy and ask what they recommend for the bulk and float points are as well as their their recommended low voltage cut off.

Ideally, your inverter and other DC loads should not significantly deplete your batteries. Those types of batteries should not be depleted more than 50% for maximum life.
 
I talked with Renogy tech support this morning and they gave me the numbers I need.
It looks like my setup is correct by the number.
Boost absorption is 14.2, Float is 13.8, Bulk/Boost return is 13.2
Next step is to test the batteries. I don't have a battery tester so I am going to take them into Les Schwab and have them tested. I live in a pretty rural area and Schwab is the closest to me that has a battery tester.
For the future can someone recommend a battery tester for these batteries? One not too expensive that I can use to see if the battery is bad or good?
 
Most stores test batteries for cranking amps (and may call it "cold cranking amps", which it isn't.)
That's one indication, but capacity is another, more important for this application.

What I did was put a loan (oil filled radiator heater) on an inverter and let it run until low-voltage disconnect.
I spot-checked battery voltage and current, and measured load resistance.
I estimate I got 35 Ah to ~ 80% DoD from 12 year old 104 Ah batteries.

Inverter driving heater would be constant watts. Load directly on battery could be constant resistance. Light bulbs (like some automotive headlamps) could work, but resistance varies with temperature so not constant as voltage drops. Resistance hot is about 10x resistance cold, so you can't rely on an ohmmeter, need ammeter to measure.

Instead of capacity test, first thing to do would be disconnect all loads and let PV fully charge battery. Disconnect and let sit a few hours. Measure resting voltage and compare to specs.
 
Renogy suggested taking the batteries to an auto parts store to measure the internal resistance and to take a photo of the numbers should there be a warranty issue. The problem is I live in the middle of nowhere and I don't know how capable the shop in town is. What is the resting voltage on one of these batteries? Specs are in the image below.
 

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