Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

Batvette said:

If you cant beat someone you allege didnt even graduate high school and is crazy, in an internet argument so you have to go ad hominem, what kind of loser does that make you?
Im nothing but an uneducated lunatic according to you yet you cant resist coming back again and again with incompetant personal attacks in lieu of rebuttals.
Joke. I own you and dont even care.

Youre now being ignored, I further own you because you will post and I wont even know about it. I dont know you exist but youll still obssess over me.

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LOL...pot meet kettle.

@Batvette, it seems to me as if you kept running in circles and tried to drag people who disagree down into your abyss of mischief and propaganda lies. I am not against you personally, just against the arguments that you bring. They sound pretty one sided, even brainwashed. You haven't yet answered to being proven wrong, you ignore the counterargument and just attack people without any sense and meaning.

And again I must say, you must proove your claims, it is not at us to disprove you, though I think a little countaraction can be refreshing from time to time . You prove Fox is right, any independent source is welcome. I believe you know exactly what I mean, so don't evade into whataboutism and distraction. Foxnews is not an acceptable source as you certainly well know, they have been proven wrong in this and many other cases by various independent articles, and have a reputation of being biased that Wikipedia for instance lists. They have specifically been proven wrong in the article I posted to refute your claim and that you apparently ignored.

So, find information that everyone can nodd to. That excludes the realm of conspiracies. It can be difficult, specifically when one has been down there for a long time. It probably requires the balls to admit being mistaken. But at least you can defend yourself by pointing to the bad sources you've been listening to.

Until then, I'll look in here from time to time. But it is too tiresome writing the same stuff over and again. Would be happy if you came back to the light side and back into human society. Those cases happen from time to time. You are not my enemy !

BaronVerde said:

@Batvette, it seems to me as if you kept running in circles and tried to drag people who disagree down into your abyss of mischief and propaganda lies. I am not against you personally, just against the arguments that you bring. They sound pretty one sided, even brainwashed. You haven't yet answered to being proven wrong, you ignore the counterargument and just attack people without any sense and meaning.

And again I must say, you must proove your claims, it is not at us to disprove you, though I think a little countaraction can be refreshing from time to time . You prove Fox is right, any independent source is welcome. I believe you know exactly what I mean, so don't evade into whataboutism and distraction. Foxnews is not an acceptable source as you certainly well know, they have been proven wrong in this and many other cases by various independent articles, and have a reputation of being biased that Wikipedia for instance lists. They have specifically been proven wrong in the article I posted to refute your claim and that you apparently ignored.

So, find information that everyone can nodd to. That excludes the realm of conspiracies. It can be difficult, specifically when one has been down there for a long time. It probably requires the balls to admit being mistaken. But at least you can defend yourself by pointing to the bad sources you've been listening to.

Until then, I'll look in here from time to time. But it is too tiresome writing the same stuff over and again. Would be happy if you came back to the light side and back into human society. Those cases happen from time to time. You are not my enemy !

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Thats funny. After my pointing out that your description of the article's content and claims was an outright lie, quoting you and providing the preview of the article to show exactly how you lied, you ignore this and now shift your argument to questioning the credibility of the source. No this is not about Fox news being credible, if it were youd have argued that initially but you thought youd get away with a dishonest assessment of its claims.
Then actually have the audacity to accuse me again of posting propaganda lies, when the whole point of the argument at this point was my documentation, with a reference, of something you previously claimed was me lying?
You just go **** yourself for this you dishonest troll, and for that matter any sycophants who dont want to acknowledge your behavior because they disagree with my politics. This goes beyond whose side youre on left or right, and is maddening you think I or anyone else here are so stupid we are going to fall for such chicanery.

How low are your ethics that you sell them out just to cover for...
Hillary Clinton?

As for that reference heres the link to Special Counsel Durhams actual legal motion filed in federal court. It is as Fox described, so again go **** yourself and your claims I post lies, conspiracy theories or anything else you label what disagrees with you.

bruceb58 said:

LOL...pot meet kettle.

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I will concede to taking the bait and being unable to ignore his posts up until this time.
Youre right.
Where your point falls short is I have never lost an argument to him, then been so annoyed by that that I spent time stalking him on the internet looking at everything hes ever posted anywhere for something I could interject every time I wanted to disrupt topical discussion with personal attacks.

Your alignment with his ideology probably makes you unable to acknowledge the childish nature of his behaviour.

This is hardly a prerequisite for me to get through my day.

At this point I know how this goes. I have him on ignore, by tomorrow I will have forgotten he exists. He however will repeatedly visit the topic for quite some time, perhaps indefinitely, in the hopes I have taken him off ignore so that I might see his posts and recognize his existence, only that will lead to his satisfaction.

I again choose to merely forget about someone whose purpose is to disrupt, with rarely any contribution of significance other than ad hominem.

No I dont see any similarities at all other than we have posted on each other, but thank you for considering my point of view.

Batvette said:

I will concede to taking the bait and being unable to ignore his posts up until this time.
Youre right.
Where your point falls short is I have never lost an argument to him, then been so annoyed by that that I spent time stalking him on the internet looking at everything hes ever posted anywhere for something I could interject every time I wanted to disrupt topical discussion with personal attacks.

Your alignment with his ideology probably makes you unable to acknowledge the childish nature of his behaviour.

This is hardly a prerequisite for me to get through my day.

At this point I know how this goes. I have him on ignore, by tomorrow I will have forgotten he exists. He however will repeatedly visit the topic for quite some time, perhaps indefinitely, in the hopes I have taken him off ignore so that I might see his posts and recognize his existence, only that will lead to his satisfaction.

I again choose to merely forget about someone whose purpose is to disrupt, with rarely any contribution of significance other than ad hominem.

No I dont see any similarities at all other than we have posted on each other, but thank you for considering my point of view.

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Sorry...you are a brainwashed conspiracy theorist. You go down every path imaginable that some made up claim on a right wing website takes you. Your DEW posts proves that...and I don't care if it was years ago....it paints you as a gullible fool.

Let me guess...you will be touting D'Souzas conspiracy movie!

Bob B said:

If you want to see what a REAL threat to democracy looks like you need to be watching what is going on in your own country.
The bank accounts and personal property of peaceful protesters is being seized by the government ... businesses are being raided because they served people coffee.
Better wake up and fight what is going on in your own back yard before it is too late. Doesn't matter if you agree with the protesters or not ... unless you just don't understand the importance of the right to protest your government without being persecuted .... but I guess it is more likely you are in favor of persecuting people who's opinions are different from your own.
Some are willing to just give away their rights and freedoms ... others ... the real heroes ... are not.

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A REAL threat to democracy is when you rile up your supporters to storm the capitol in order try to overthrow a free and fair election you lost.

Batvette said:

Okay canuck. Things pretty boring up there in politics. How pitiful you are so passionate about our elections.

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I do not care about your election, I do have a front row seat to the freak show.

Batvette said:

You cant even vote in them.

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I have not voted in any election in decades.

Batvette said:

Nothing worse than nosy meddling neighbors.

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Not meddling, just pointing out the facts.

Oh, geez, look, science is catching up with good sense. Now we just need to wait for all the nervous, scared members of the ostrich brigade to pull their heads out of the sand and uptake the science. Not very hopeful.

Whatever John Campbell he says, it has no scientific relevance. He is/was, btw. a nursing teacher. And he wasn't allways as accurate as one might wish:


Actual science of the day is taking place in peer reviewed journals, and withotu the necessary backgriund it is often hard to understand for us normal mortals.

A snippet from the attached analysis.

Attention, not a peer reviewed publication and full of life threatening misinformation ! Such claims have been debunked often enough, in contrary vaccinations lower any risk of catching covid or dying from it, in all age groups and by degrees of magnitude. A trivial search helps finding out, needless to do it here again.

Prophylactically, sotosay, the claimer must proove their claims, with peer reviewed work. Official publications that cite peer reviewed work are also acceptable. That we can discuss. But it is not at us to disprove anything.

Seriously? This anti GMO anti roundup lady?

Do you just search for random BS daily?

I have attached the latest Pfizer adverse event report. Wonder why they have been trying to hide this?

The last 8 pages look like this snippet.

Bob B said:

I have attached the latest Pfizer adverse event report. Wonder why they have been trying to hide this?

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Why won't you admit that Trump left office with higher unemployment than when he entered office? Why do you lie about that to yourself and every one here? What do you have to hide? Are you an agent for Putin? Do you really believe the nonsense you spout?

Even your own PDF, which is a year old, states that the vaccines are safe. Why wouldn't they want to hid that?

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 553 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through February 22, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 12,775 preliminary reports of death (0.0023%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records."



"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 553 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through February 22, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 12,775 preliminary reports of death (0.0023%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records."


The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a United States program for vaccine safety, co-managed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). VAERS is a postmarketing surveillance program, collecting information about adverse events (possible harmful side effects) that occur after administration of vaccines to ascertain whether the risk–benefit ratio is high enough to justify continued use of any particular vaccine.


The "CDC continues to recommend that everyone ages 5 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis."

Pizer is doing what every producer and distributer of pharmaceutical stuff is obliged to do by national and international regulations, inform about their products. Everybody can read it, there is nothing to be seen there. That's what regulations are for. Regulations are good. When finding out about any effects, it is the subseqquent task of researchers to find out what has happened, inform, and eventually act and adapt if necessary. Allways with a scientifically approved method !

Billions have been vaccinated by now, there have certainly been deaths after vaccinations, simply because people die naturally. I do not know how many IF ANY fatalities are actually and certainly linked to vaccinations, probably in the area >0.000x%. There have been isolated unclear cases in the beginning, I recall faintly isolated blood clotting cases (but where they actually surely caused by a certain vaccine ?), immediately leading to research and information. At the same time, vaccinations have prevented millions of deaths worldwide, reducing the risk of death by 97% over the whole population (old numbers, may have improved by now).

So, that's the important number: 97% less COVID deaths and 91% less COVID infections because of vaccinations.

And I suggest to stop feeding the trolls.

BaronVerde said:

Pizer is doing what every producer and distributer of pharmaceutical stuff is obliged to do by national and international regulations, inform about their products. Everybody can read it, there is nothing to be seen there.

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Just wondering, when have Big Pharma companies been given 50+ years to release the results of their vaccine trials ?
Does that sound suspicious to you ? And if it doesn't; WHY doesn't it ?

From Yahoo Finance :

CHD Says Pfizer and FDA Dropped Data Bombshell on COVID Vaccine Consumers​

Children's Health Defense
Thu, March 3, 2022, 3:54 PM
Clinical trial data contradicts ‘safe and effective’ government/industry mantra

Washington, DC, March 03, 2022 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- In a 55,000-page set of documents released on Tuesday, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA’s) Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) is for the first time allowing the public to access data Pfizer submitted to FDA from its clinical trials in support of a COVID-19 vaccine license. This follows U.S. District Judge Mark T. Pittman’s decision on January 6 to deny the request from the FDA to suppress the data for the next 75 years which the agency claimed was necessary, in part, because of its “limited resources.”

A 38-page report included in the documents features an Appendix, “LIST OF ADVERSE EVENTS OF SPECIAL INTEREST,” that lists 1,291 different adverse events following vaccination.

“This is a bombshell,” said Children’s Health Defense (CHD) president and general counsel Mary Holland. “At least now we know why the FDA and Pfizer wanted to keep this data under wraps for 75 years. These findings should put an immediate end to the Pfizer COVID vaccines. The potential for serious harm is very clear, and those injured by the vaccines are prohibited from suing Pfizer for damages.”

BMcL said:

Just wondering, when have Big Pharma companies been given 50+ years to release the results of their vaccine trials ?
Does that sound suspicious to you ? And if it doesn't; WHY doesn't it ?

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Pfizer hasn't officially released the above document yet ..... they have been hiding it .... it was leaked. This is one of the documents they have been trying to prevent being released by going to court multiple times.
Pretty funny that there are a full 8 pages of "Adverse Events of Special Interest" .... with about 5 on each line ... and Pfizer comes to the conclusion that the vaccine has sufficient benefit. I think most sane people would come to a different conclusion after reading that document.

Hadn't seen you 2nd post when I typed the above. It's kinda hard to say there is no significant risk when there are over 1200 different types of adverse events ..... that has to be some sort of record.
If you start looking some of those things up .... some of them represent changes in DNA.

Bob B said:

Pfizer hasn't officially released the above document yet ..... they have been hiding it .... it was leaked. This is one of the documents they have been trying to prevent being released by going to court multiple times.
Pretty funny that there are a full 8 pages of "Adverse Events of Special Interest" .... with about 5 on each line ... and Pfizer comes to the conclusion that the vaccine has sufficient benefit. I think most sane people would come to a different conclusion after reading that document.

Hadn't seen you 2nd post when I typed the above. It's kinda hard to say there is no significant risk when there are over 1200 different types of adverse events ..... that has to be some sort of record.
If you start looking some of those things up .... some of them represent changes in DNA.

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As always, you're speaking common sense. Plus from the beginning of covid in March 2020, statistics told us children were not at risk .
Yet every lib on this forum wanted to force the vaccine on everyone including babies, without any clue to the long-term danger!

Amazing how they call us Nazis and Johnson just accused you of being "an agent of Putin !" LOL

BMcL said:

As always, you're speaking common sense. Plus from the beginning of covid in March 2020, statistics told us children were not at risk .
Yet every lib on this forum wanted to force the vaccine on everyone including babies, without any clue to the long-term danger!

Amazing how they call us Nazis and Johnson just accused you of being "an agent of Putin !" LOL

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I just ignore Johnson ... I think everyone with any sense knows his posts have no basis in reality.

Bob B said:

I just ignore Johnson ... I think everyone with any sense knows his posts have no basis in reality.

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Funniest thing I have read in a long time.

Just as a reminder .... the actual number of events will be 10 to 100 times greater than what is reported to VAERS .... Summarization of reported cases below.

"VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. Most reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."

tl,dr: @Bob B , you do not understand what you post, and you're making it up.

Something peer reviewed on the spread of false claims on COVID, as those encountered here in this thread:


tl,dr: COVID misinformation mostly affects "vulnerable" groups in US/Canada/UK. It has little effect on well informed, educated people. Fact checking actually helps against the spread of such misinformation, but the effect vanishes over time.

Interpretation mine:
Which could potentially mean that better education can help. Probably a reason why European countries (or China for instance), where education is cheaper and more accessible, are less prone to COVID misinformation than for instance the US. But that is another chain of reasoning to make and I do not claim that this is the reason why those countries have higher vaccination rates. Don't know if someone already went down that rabbit hole. Would be interesting to try and find out ...

How is education linked to COVID misinformation ?
Are countries with open educational systems less prone to misinformation ?

Somebody could set out on a search

BaronVerde said:

Something peer reviewed on the spread of false claims on COVID, as those encountered here in this thread:

The ephemeral effects of fact-checks on COVID-19 misperceptions in the United States, Great Britain and Canada - Nature Human Behaviour

Experiments in the United States, Great Britain and Canada show that fact-checks can reduce belief in misperceptions about COVID-19, especially among the groups who are most vulnerable to these claims. However, these effects do not persist over time.

www.nature.com

tl,dr: COVID misinformation mostly affects "vulnerable" groups in US/Canada/UK. It has little effect on well informed, educated people. Fact checking actually helps against the spread of such misinformation, but the effect vanishes over time.

Interpretation mine:
Which could potentially mean that better education can help. Probably a reason why European countries (or China for instance), where education is cheaper and more accessible, are less prone to COVID misinformation than for instance the US. But that is another chain of reasoning to make and I do not claim that this is the reason why those countries have higher vaccination rates. Don't know if someone already went down that rabbit hole. Would be interesting to try and find out ...

How is education linked to COVID misinformation ?
Are countries with open educational systems less prone to misinformation ?

Somebody could set out on a search

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I understand perfectly well what VAERS data is .... so take your lecture somewhere else and stop trying to invalidate factual information.

VAERS .... is NOT misinformation. If you look at the link I posted they give a full explanation of the data and also include all the reports. Yes ... it is RAW information but is widely used as a signal that something is going wrong with a drug or vaccine.
What is being reported to VAERS for Covid vaccine events is WAY beyond a signal .... and Pfizer's own document I posted earlier shows the same thing.

Are you trying to claim that VAERS data is misinformation? If anyone doesn't know what VAERS is or how the data is utilized .... then please ignore the data ... but don't try to claim the data doesn't exist or is misinformation.

Just get off this crazy misinformation band wagon and quit with the partisan fact check crap and observe and engage your brain .... try to think for yourself if that's possible.