I’m a little confused hooking up my growatt spf 6000t dvm-mpv

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

Okay I’ll start off by saying this is an off grid application.
I have a 6kw generator that has 240v output.
Ive ran hot1-hot 2 and ground from generator.
I disconnected the neutral from the generator power cable because I do not see a place to put the neutral on the inverter.
That leads me to question one.
Was I supposed to disconnect neutral from generator? Or am I supposed to do something else like supply generator power to a sub panel with hot1-hot2-neutral-ground and then add a 40amp breaker and have my two hot legs come from that breaker? Am I on the right track?

-I’ve got a single 100amp hour growatt axe 5.0 lithium ion battery.

-For the 6kw inverter it says a minimum of 200amp hours is recommended?
Does that mean I’m not gonna be able to power up my inverter without another 100amp hour battery?

-I was expecting to be able to power 4 lights a mini fridge and my tv with this temporarily until I get more batteries via charging with the generator.

Lastly supplying my panel with the ac output off the inverter would be hot1 -hot2 -neutral- and ground? Is this correct?

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Was I supposed to disconnect neutral from generator?

Yes

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
For the 6kw inverter it says a minimum of 200amp hours is recommended?

This is what it requires for full output. It will still operate with less output.

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Lastly supplying my panel with the ac output off the inverter would be hot1 -hot2 -neutral- and ground? Is this correct?

Yes

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

timselectric said:
Yes

This is what it requires for full output. It will still operate with less output.

Yes

Okay great.
so why didn’t this thing turn on?

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Double check all connections. Verify with a meter.

Quattrohead · Jul 14, 2022

Battery connected AND supplying power to the terminals...not tripped ? These things hit the battery hard to start.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

timselectric said:
Double check all connections. Verify with a meter.

I Will double check all connections with the meter on Saturday.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

Quattrohead said:
Battery connected AND supplying power to the terminals...not tripped ? These things hit the battery hard to start.

I was given some Golden information I think… I’m gonna Take a pencil sharpened on both sides and use it to connect the Battery+ with inverter +.
Using the graphite in the pencil as a capacitor? Worth a shot.

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
I was given some Golden information I think… I’m gonna Take a pencil sharpened on both sides and use it to connect the Battery+ with inverter +.
Using the graphite in the pencil as a capacitor? Worth a shot.

Resistor, not capacitor.
This is done to charge the inverters capacitor, without tripping the batteries OCP.
But if the OCP is not being tripped. This is not going to help.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

timselectric said:
Resistor, not capacitor.
This is done to charge the inverters capacitor, without tripping the batteries OCP.
But if the OCP is not being tripped. This is not going to help.

Thankyou for the correction. Resistor!! To charge the capacitor without tripping the ocp. What is the ocp?

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Thankyou for the correction. Resistor!! To charge the capacitor without tripping the ocp. What is the ocp?

Over
Current
Protection

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Breaker/fuse/BMS

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

timselectric said:
Breaker/fuse/BMS

My battery has a bms. I’m guessing that stands for battery management system?
I’m once again guessing this is for communicating things like if the battery is hot or cold or over charging or dead?

timselectric · Jul 14, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
My battery has a bms. I’m guessing that stands for battery management system?
I’m once again guessing this is for communicating things like if the battery is hot or cold or over charging or dead?

Correct
It monitors and protects the battery from unsafe temperatures and charge parameters.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 14, 2022

timselectric said:
Correct
It monitors and protects the battery from unsafe temperatures and charge parameters.

Okay. I’m really putting some additional thought into this. I hope I’m not over thinking.
What does the neutral do in the 240v wire that comes from my generator?
Why does it not get connected into this growatt inverter?
I have this feeling that I need to run my generators 240v output to a new sub panel and then add a 40amp breaker to the new sub panel which will then lead into the inverters ac input?
I say that because then I believe I can just run hot1&hot2 and ground without this neutral? I’m enjoying the process I’m just a little confused. I’m extremely grateful for any knowledge shared. Thankyou

stienman · Jul 14, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
What does the neutral do in the 240v wire that comes from my generator?

It provides a way to connect 120V loads to your generator.

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Why does it not get connected into this growatt inverter?

The growatt is a 240V load, and does not use 120V at all on its input.

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
I have this feeling that I need to run my generators 240v output to a new sub panel and then add a 40amp breaker to the new sub panel which will then lead into the inverters ac input?

You can if you want to, and you might find that useful in the future if you want to connect other loads to your generator, but this isn't necessary, and the both the growatt and your generator have circuit breakers on the input to prevent issues. Adding another breaker won't hurt anything except your wallet.

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
I say that because then I believe I can just run hot1&hot2 and ground without this neutral?

Yes, if you put an electrical box between the generator and the growatt, then you can have Hot1, Hot2, and Neutral go in, then, through a breaker, have Hot1 and Hot2 go out to the growatt. There are a lot of opinions about grounding so I'm not going to go into that here, other than to say you should make sure all components are grounded to one point in the system, and that point should have an earth ground connection of some sort. Doing this at a breaker box is a nice defined point for the combined ground connections.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

stienman said:
It provides a way to connect 120V loads to your generator.

The growatt is a 240V load, and does not use 120V at all on its input.

You can if you want to, and you might find that useful in the future if you want to connect other loads to your generator, but this isn't necessary, and the both the growatt and your generator have circuit breakers on the input to prevent issues. Adding another breaker won't hurt anything except your wallet.

Yes, if you put an electrical box between the generator and the growatt, then you can have Hot1, Hot2, and Neutral go in, then, through a breaker, have Hot1 and Hot2 go out to the growatt. There are a lot of opinions about grounding so I'm not going to go into that here, other than to say you should make sure all components are grounded to one point in the system, and that point should have an earth ground connection of some sort. Doing this at a breaker box is a nice defined point for the combined ground connections.

Thankyou for that information. I need to install an earth ground. I’ve heard they’re 6’ deep. My shipping container is sitting on a giant Boulder basically so any ideas on how to get a ground in would be appreciated. I have about 3’ of soil before the massive Boulder

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

stienman said:
It provides a way to connect 120V loads to your generator.

The growatt is a 240V load, and does not use 120V at all on its input.

You can if you want to, and you might find that useful in the future if you want to connect other loads to your generator, but this isn't necessary, and the both the growatt and your generator have circuit breakers on the input to prevent issues. Adding another breaker won't hurt anything except your wallet.

Yes, if you put an electrical box between the generator and the growatt, then you can have Hot1, Hot2, and Neutral go in, then, through a breaker, have Hot1 and Hot2 go out to the growatt. There are a lot of opinions about grounding so I'm not going to go into that here, other than to say you should make sure all components are grounded to one point in the system, and that point should have an earth ground connection of some sort. Doing this at a breaker box is a nice defined point for the combined ground connections.

So in theory I could run hot1 and hot2 and ground from generator directly into inverter.
This configuration should work. NEUTRAL IS NOT NECESSARY FOR AC INPUT.
Why is neutral necessary for ac output? Both are 240v. This is where my mind gets confused.

Quattrohead · Jul 15, 2022

The neutral is the half way point of the 240v and so connecting to it and ONE hot gives you 120v.
So yes your growatt only takes 240v input but has a transformer output that has 120-0-120.
The USA split phase system is odd and confusing. Here is a good read up on it, Edison is to blame lol.

Split-phase electric power - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Old_Skewler · Jul 15, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
So in theory I could run hot1 and hot2 and ground from generator directly into inverter.
This configuration should work. NEUTRAL IS NOT NECESSARY FOR AC INPUT.
Why is neutral necessary for ac output? Both are 240v. This is where my mind gets confused.

I happen to also be installing the same GroWatt inverter in my off grid cabin and I have to agree that their documentation is lame and missing crucial information.

I just finally received some stud connectors that I was missing for the final wiring and during this waiting time I had to clarify the same exact questions yo are going thru now and as far as I can see you figured out the same answers I have:

- Generator input to Inverter: 240V, no neutral
- Inverter output: L1+L2+N to a split phase panel

The Neutral for AC output is only required IF your application is actually split phase. And because you bought this inverter I suspect you do have a split phase application.

No, each leg is NOT 240V as you stated, but instead 120V each leg with 240V between them. And each leg between a Neutral gives you the desired 120V.

I believe the above is correct regarding how to wire the inverter between the generator + house panel.
The other issue that I am facing is how to solve the grounding. Yes, I am also above a bedrock and I can't dig it 6 feet deep. Also, there is a chance that you will need only one place in your system where N+G bond. I can't advise on this because I am going thru it for the first time, but if you read some of my threads you'll find lots of response to the same questions you are asking.

stienman · Jul 15, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Thankyou for that information. I need to install an earth ground. I’ve heard they’re 6’ deep. My shipping container is sitting on a giant Boulder basically so any ideas on how to get a ground in would be appreciated. I have about 3’ of soil before the massive Boulder

Look for ground plates, a different option than ground rods.

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

Quattrohead said:
The neutral is the half way point of the 240v and so connecting to it and ONE hot gives you 120v.
So yes your growatt only takes 240v input but has a transformer output that has 120-0-120.
The USA split phase system is odd and confusing. Here is a good read up on it, Edison is to blame lol.

Split-phase electric power - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Very confusing but definitely learnable. I’ll give that a read! Thankyou

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

Old_Skewler said:
I happen to also be installing the same GroWatt inverter in my off grid cabin and I have to agree that their documentation is lame and missing crucial information.

I just finally received some stud connectors that I was missing for the final wiring and during this waiting time I had to clarify the same exact questions yo are going thru now and as far as I can see you figured out the same answers I have:

- Generator input to Inverter: 240V, no neutral
- Inverter output: L1+L2+N to a split phase panel

The Neutral for AC output is only required IF your application is actually split phase. And because you bought this inverter I suspect you do have a split phase application.

No, each leg is NOT 240V as you stated, but instead 120V each leg with 240V between them. And each leg between a Neutral gives you the desired 120V.

I believe the above is correct regarding how to wire the inverter between the generator + house panel.
The other issue that I am facing is how to solve the grounding. Yes, I am also above a bedrock and I can't dig it 6 feet deep. Also, there is a chance that you will need only one place in your system where N+G bond. I can't advise on this because I am going thru it for the first time, but if you read some of my threads you'll find lots of response to the same questions you are asking.

The N+G bound also confused me. I was reading the 17 page thread last night. I got half way through and my phone died because I don’t have power lol that’s a joke. I’m gonna check out your threads. Thanks a bunch

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

Old_Skewler said:
No, each leg is NOT 240V as you stated, but instead 120V each leg with 240V between them. And each leg between a Neutral gives you the desired 120V

Yes Each leg is 120v. I was referring to the entire generator output cable as 240v

Mannfamilywoodworks · Jul 15, 2022

stienman said:
Look for ground plates, a different option than ground rods.

Oh awesome yeah I can do that Thankyou . I’m also gonna pour a 2’x2’ footing/pier this weekend with re bar drilled and connected to this giant bedrock for my container to sit level on ….so maybe that re bar could double as an earth ground potentially

stienman · Jul 15, 2022

Mannfamilywoodworks said:
Oh awesome yeah I can do that Thankyou . I’m also gonna pour a 2’x2’ footing/pier this weekend with re bar drilled and connected to this giant bedrock for my container to sit level on ….so maybe that re bar could double as an earth ground potentially

Chances are good that you won't meet code with that. Concrete encased electrodes, sometimes called "ufer ground", require a minimum of 20 feet of the conductor (in this case, rebar) along the concrete.

https://rspsupply.com/education/a-141-grounding-part-9-alternative-grounding-electrode-systems/

I’m a little confused hooking up my growatt spf 6000t dvm-mpv

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