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I am always fantasizing about having a energy efficient air conditioner for van life, anyone seen any concepts in tech news or anything?

Curiously LG sells the US air conditioners with bare aluminum coil fins. Go to their intl website, they sell the rest of the world with gold anodized. At least they did about 10 yrs ago.
US consumers in general are not demanding, don't care much for long term performance or efficiency.
They still put tarpaper (shingles) on their roof and think that's adequate protection of the elements. Even while insurance companies on Florida won't even insure those shingled homes anymore. So you buy a house there -and can't get insurance.

Most of Europe you can't even buy single stage A/C units anymore/ that's like buying a steam machine. They are all variable speed.

The efficient HVAC equipment or Solar components the world wide producers are serving the US market usually last. (cheap energy costs and little consumer interest) further 120V weird center taped voltage for only 300 million consumers - while the remainder of the world runs 230V single phase (7+ billion consumers)
 
there is a new 12-volt RV roof mount A?C but I think it is $4k - thats a lot of hotel rooms ;-)
Saw an attractive low profile one today on amazon for $1100. No reviews.
Link:


That would likely fit through the sunroof of my odyssey. I aint gonna touch it. Support? Warranty? Returns?
 
US consumers in general are not demanding, don't care much for long term performance or efficiency.

The efficient HVAC equipment or Solar components the world wide producers are serving the US market usually last. (cheap energy costs and little consumer interest) further 120V weird center taped voltage for only 300 million consumers - while the remainder of the world runs 230V single phase (7+ billion consumers)


Most of our (U.S.) heating and cooling appliances will run on 230V or 208V single phase, 50 or 60 Hz.
Catch is, many also use 120V for some controls (easy to supply with small transformer) or blower (don't know if motor can be rewired.)
But a 230V only unit should be no problem to run here.

Only real issue is wiring. Laundry room may or may not have 230V outlet or dryer. It is 120V for washer, 120V for gas dryer.
Microwave, built-in or not, is 120V.
Cost to have electrician add 230V outlet could exceed cost of appliance.

But major heating or cooling appliance would already have 230V (or 208V) available.

Consumer stomach for sticker price, energy cost, long term view is the driver.
As for price, we can pay $500 or $10,000 for a fridge, $300 or $3000 for a washing machine. I assume most of the volume is at lower end (but with inflation that has moved up.)
 
230v Splitphase is many times not compatible with 230v phase to ground systems. 50 vs 60hz makes things difficult for motors which have fixed windings.

If you want to design international appliance you almost need to go inverter. But for 110v again at 15a you don't have the power available European outlets have with 230v and 16a..so america is limited to low power and that doesn't mix with large homes.
 
There are 12v inverter rooftop ac for rv for $1100. 12 & 24v dc inverter split systems for semi truck etc with horizontal roof mount interior unit and vertical mount outside unit for ~$800. Dometic makes a beautiful 12v inverter rooftop rv ac for $2300 or so, but pricey!

I agree its probably largely not worth it to pursue pure dc input aircon for regular rv or trailer use because once you are using an inverter driven ac unit it doesnt require the ‘house’ inverter to be sized for the compressor startup surge of an old-school ac unit. At that point you have a good selection of efficient 110-240v units to mount in various ways.
 
There are 12v inverter rooftop ac for rv for $1100. 12 & 24v dc inverter split systems for semi truck etc with horizontal roof mount interior unit and vertical mount outside unit for ~$800.
links please.
 
One note on the DC models, they are often much lower BTU units than a similar AC unit so the "efficiency" gained by keeping it all DC based is probably less than you think in a demanding application.

The Velit R2000 looks affordable, but I'd need 2 units to equal the output of 1 AC based unit.

If they only made minisplits that would fit in a conventional rooftop HVAC location. . .
 
I think part of it is just the impracticality of trying run anything powerful off of 12v. At some point you are into the hundreds of amps and any 'convenience' aspect of it being 12v dc is obviated by having to have 4 12v batteries just to have enough terminal space to stuff all the 0ga wires onto them, etc etc.

So there is probably a 'practical ceiling' being voluntarily imposed by the manufacturers of 12v air conditioners so that they could ostensibly be used on a 'stock vehicle electrical system' without requiring huge changes. Even then, they're talking about semi truck and RV electrical systems with a lot more battery capacity than a passenger van, for example.

So i dont think it's anything inherent to the technology per se, just that a 12v air conditioner that was 15000btu would require so much 'supporting mods' to install that you might as well be installing a big inverter system and running it off some other voltage at that point. If i have to run 20lbs of copper wire up a wall I could buy a several thousand watt inverter for the same money and run a normal 120v ac off a regular extension cord.
 
So i dont think it's anything inherent to the technology per se, just that a 12v air conditioner that was 15000btu would require so much 'supporting mods' to install that you might as well be installing a big inverter system and running it off some other voltage at that point. If i have to run 20lbs of copper wire up a wall I could buy a several thousand watt inverter for the same money and run a normal 120v ac off a regular extension cord.
12V and A/C doesn't mix well.
But 48V does. Even 24V would already help. I'm running my 3000W inverter of 24V - and those are manageable cable sizes.

The issue I'm seeing with 12V A/C - their COP isn't very good. It's like under 3, so for 1 watt electric you get 3 watts of cooling. While Mini-splits and even Inverter Type Window Units are somewhere in the 4-6 range. Which means you getting almost double the cooling out of each watt of electric from your battery.

I currently have a 8000 BTU Dreo Inverter unit sitting on my floor. https://www.amazon.com/Dreo-Inverter-Conditioner-Installation-DR-HAC002/dp/B09NR1MP5V I'm was thinking about somehow integrating into one of the walls of my RV.

But:
That thing is huge - it's bigger then my 13500 BTU on the roof of my RV. - I think this is where the efficiency comes from. The mini split and inverter units have much larger condenser and evaporator surfaces.
 
The issue I'm seeing with 12V A/C - their COP isn't very good. It's like under 3, so for 1 watt electric you get 3 watts of cooling. While Mini-splits and even Inverter Type Window Units are somewhere in the 4-6 range. Which means you getting almost double the cooling out of each watt of electric from your battery.
Interesting, I never thought too deep into the efficiencies, assuming most compressors were about the same.

I'm running a 12v rooftop truck AC, and it lists 3000w or 10k BTU/hr peak cooling capacity for a max draw of 700w, so just over ~4.25? It does also list an efficiency of 1.5-2.4W/W though, which seems dismal in your comparison. I don't know a lot about the unit, but it seems to be an inverter (no hard starts/stops like you experience on normal window AC units).
 
a 12v rooftop truck AC, and it lists 3000w or 10k BTU/hr peak cooling capacity for a max draw of 700w, so just over ~4.25
3000w of cooling for 700w of electric would be rather good. For a roof mounted unit.

For comparison a good brand single speed 13500 BTU RV A/C unit (AC powered) is about 4000W of cooling - and needs 1200W
COP 3.3 this assumes constant running - starting and stopping drops that dramatically.

My mini split 12000 BTU cooling watts: 3500W runs of 600W of AC COP 5.8

Measured a friends Inverter 12000 BTU Window A/C from Midea = it runs of 700W COP 5
 
as the title suggests, I am curious if anyone has seen any prototypes or DIY projects that could work? I feel like with the amount of tech we have right now it should be possible for such a device to exist...

anyone seen anything?
I'm a bit late here, but for posterity:
There is a white paint that allows a region of IR radiation to pass through while also reflecting visible light. There is a small, but significant, heat loss from enclosed areas at ambient temperatures. This is effectively passive cooling, if only by a few degrees. I know this isn't to do with solar power, but you can perhaps reduce your load with the addition of this paint and a clever setup. I'm not sure that it's commercially available yet, but there is at least 2 videos on YT that talk about how to make it yourself. Maybe search "passive cooling white paint".
 
I had no idea. I thought it was a relatively new paint. I'm glad it's being used to reduce energy consumption on a broad scale.

the paint you posted there is different, it's reflecting UV rays and not only visible spectrum. Most regular white paint is only reflecting the visible spectrum. (most of the energy is in UV - that's where you get sunburn from)

Has nothing to do with Infrared - transparent paint used for radiators, I mentioned before. But still a great invention.

I would not paint a car in Radiator paint - since it's it's letting infrared through - which makes it terrible for keeping cool or warm. A radiator needs to be conductive - a Van is the opposite. The less conductive surface the better.
 
the paint you posted there is different, it's reflecting UV rays and not only visible spectrum. Most regular white paint is only reflecting the visible spectrum. (most of the energy is in UV - that's where you get sunburn from)

Has nothing to do with Infrared - transparent paint used for radiators, I mentioned before. But still a great invention.

I would not paint a car in Radiator paint - since it's it's letting infrared through - which makes it terrible for keeping cool or warm. A radiator needs to be conductive - a Van is the opposite. The less conductive surface the better.
That article didn't go into detail, but about halfway into it, it does mention allowing IR to pass through:
"The white paint that Purdue researchers created reflects 95.5% sunlight and efficiently radiates infrared heat." I forgot about the UV being reflected. It's been over a year since I learned about it.

I believe the IR details were explained in a different report, or maybe a YT clip. All in all, it really sounds like a great paint. I'll look into radiator paint. Sounds like cool stuff, too.
 
Key Points for solar driven A/C in a Van:

- highly reflective paint
- As much insulation as possible (I got R13 in the walls and R18 in the ceiling)
- Good airtightness.
- as little windows as possible (every window is roughly 1000 BTU of heat gain - Windscreen is 2000)
- highest COP A/C unit
- Roof covered with Solar panels (creates also shade on the roof)
 
All good points. Also, try to limit heat producing activities inside. Cooking should be done outdoors when possible.
 
I'm all for best practices but i think there is line in the sand where it becomes detrimental if it just dissuades people from ever trying anything in the first place.

Example: I have 220ah of 12v lifepo4 in my ~23' RV. Just yesterday I cut a quick and dirty nasty hole through the back wall and shoved a used 5000btu window AC in the hole. You can see plenty of daylight around it, but i figured this was just for testing until i put a more efficient unit in a slightly enlarged (and cleaner) version of the hole.

I don't know what SOC the lithium bank was at, but i know it was low because i typically pull 1.6-1.8kwh (out of 2.6kwh nominal capacity) out of it overnight on a daily basis supplementing my house system and recharge from solar during the day. I stopped charging it at noon when it normally doesn't finish charging til ~7pm on a 10a-7pm charging window. Sorry I don't have better info, but oh well.

Anyway, whatever charge that was, powered that 5000btu ac from midnight to 5am this morning before hitting the 11.0v cutoff i have setup on the lithium.

That certainly suggests that if the lithium bank were fully charged, it would have run that AC for my entire sleep period. I was comfortable when the ac was running, although i don't know the temp setpoint because it just has a thermostat numbered ~1-8 or something like that. I was in Port Aransas TX a half mile from the coast, so the temperature never drops below 80 and humidity about the same, in the middle of the night. There were 2 adults and 2 children in the RV.

So that's a lot of vague anecdotal stuff but it still suggests that if you are trying to do something like run an AC to keep yourself cool overnight in a large-ish vehicle in a hot/humid climate, you can still easily do that without a huge battery bank, or a particularly efficient AC, or particularly good anything! Got less than 4 people? Smaller than a class b RV? More efficient than a $125 special window unit? Well then your case will be BETTER.

Yes, that's different than keeping the same vehicle cool, without touching the batteries, totally off solar, in the daytime. But it's arguably also more relevant to more people. Of course i still want to talk about all of it, coatings, insulation, CEER, pv, etc etc but i just feel we should careful of using so many words to amount to 'it's impractical' and instead sort of couch things in 'how to make it the least bad'. :ROFLMAO:
 
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More efficient than a $125 special window unit? Well then your case will be BETTER.
Window Units are very hard to beat in Value per BTU. Easy to install, easy to replace if something breaks.

The new Inverter Window Units, are also giving RV roof units a run for their Money. A antique rambling On/OFF Roof A/C unit for an RV is $1000 or more with 13500 BTU

For $450 you get 12000 BTU of variable speed Window A/Cs with Smart controls, Alex etc, , which is almost perfectly silent, further has no start up surge and double the COP.

I cut a quick and dirty nasty hole through the back wall and shoved a used 5000btu window AC in the hole.
we must figure out a better system to integrate Window Units into RVs. I've done exactly what you are talking about 5-6 years ago - in the rear wall of my Class A - the central A/C wasn't strong enough to cool the whole thing. Ended up loving it.

Lately I a saw a few travel trailers with side mounted Window Units - up on a cabinet:
1658744308618.png

They draw air from the refrigerator vent from above and exhaust hot air through a side vent. Pretty neat integration. This is on a Starcraft Ar-One RV.
 
I agree that 'conventional' rooftop rv ac's seem like incredibly bad value compared to modern inverter window units and mini splits. I have not seen much penetration of 'inverter driven compressors' into the rooftop ac segment from my brief research. I assume this is because most of the RV community has the expectation of running rooftop ac either off shore power or generator, in which case power is almost always sufficient vs the off-grid/solar type people who have a different expectation and seek higher efficiency.

They draw air from the refrigerator vent from above and exhaust hot air through a side vent. Pretty neat integration. This is on a Starcraft Ar-One RV.
That looks good!

I actually did briefly 'install' (i.e. prop up and use some foam board to seal up air gaps between front and rear) this window unit above the fridge, but my thought was to suck ambient air from the fridge vent below, and exhaust it out the fridge vent above. That way would have required no modification to the exterior of the RV at all. But, it did not work out as instead of the exhaust air flowing up and out, it was recirculating back across the condenser and driving up the high side temp/pressure until the unit was pulling 700 watts and blowing lukewarm air.

I think if i had installed baffles/walls to separate the two airflows it might have worked acceptably in that location, but the fridge intake and exhaust vents are both a little on the small side for the ac and probably would have made it relatively inefficient and ineffective. The idea you showed above would probably fix it and make better use of 'wasted' interior space in the RV than what i ended up doing, but now that i've cut a hole i will probably stick with the rear wall location and work on improving it.

I had assumed i would replace this 5k unit with an inverter window unit, but now that i 'know' or have an inkling i can make it through a night on my existing battery bank which i am planning to upgrade anyway, im not sure I have any motivation to spend money upgrading that unit vs buying another chunk of lithium battery, which is more broadly useful both inside and outside the RV. I have actually run a welder off the 5kw inverter in the rv!

One interesting advantage of having the small 5k unit in the rv is that I can technically run it off the 12v alternator through the inverter while driving, and have some supplemental cooling in the rear of the RV that doesn't require running the generator while driving, which is a semi-offensive concept when im already firing a 6.8L engine going down the road! I have a 200amp alternator for the RV but have not installed it.

Thanks for sharing that experience, very encouraging.
 

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