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Heat pump amps spiking (Fixed)

So.. I'm weak on how this cap is helping. I don't know what is an acceptable amount of capacitance across an AC circuit, but i know it can't be too much or the AC would basically become averaged out to a precisely useless 0v DC. I also wonder if the 'appropriate' amount has to scale with the rest of the circuit, etc.. In general it seems like the cap is probably doing very little in terms of actually 'softening the hit' and might have something more to do with improving some signal the inverter is taking from the AC lines to self-regulate?

I dont know much about electronics but if someone can explain what this thing is doing in sub-EE terms, i'd appreciate it.
 
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So.. I'm weak on how this cap is helping. I don't know what is an acceptable amount of capacitance across an AC circuit, but i know it can't be too much or the AC would basically become 0v DC. I also wonder if the 'appropriate' amount has to scale with the rest of the circuit, etc.. In general it seems like the cap is probably doing very little in terms of actually 'softening the hit' and might have something more to do with improving some signal the inverter is taking from the AC lines to self-regulate?

I dont know much about electronics but if someone can explain what this thing is doing in sub-EE terms, i'd appreciate it.
A capacitor stores power at the voltage applied to it. And can release it in an instant. It just sits there holding the charge until a surge pulls the voltage down. And then it releases the charge instantaneously. This covers the surge (or part of it depending on its size) so that the inverter doesn't have to.
 
I have 2 1 farid caps in my truck for the stereo. They are about 10" long and 3" OD. Been in it for 25 years. I have no idea how it works. Thats what I was told to do wheni was building it.

How are the AC ones rated?
 
A capacitor stores power at the voltage applied to it. And can release it in an instant. It just sits there holding the charge until a surge pulls the voltage down. And then it releases the charge instantaneously. This covers the surge (or part of it depending on its size) so that the inverter doesn't have to.
Ok, so i'm getting that basic part of it. I just have this hesitation about unintended side-effects.. Such as, the capacitor is 'cycling' at the same 60hz as the circuit, but.. does it charge and discharge rapidly enough with the AC waveform that it does not introduce 'poor power factor' into the circuit by making current flow lag slightly from voltage? Or is it not an issue of 'speed' but just that the total energy is so low it's a drop in the bucket of the circuit and noone cares?

And, mainly the sizing. I like that someone has a 20uF number that 'works' but i'd like to 'get my head around it' conceptually before implementing it.. like i was saying if you installed a big enough capacitor on an AC circuit it would essentially just eat the peaks and feed them back into the valleys and 'short' the AC source down to an averaged out 0v while probably getting ridiculously hot and ruining the source equipment. I get that the 20uf isn't doing THAT, but is it doing SOMETHING bad and we just don't realize it? Where is that line? The massive 1 farad stereo caps just mentioned, might be in that zone, but i dont know?!

I just hate to do anything electrical until im already ~95% certain what's going to happen when i DO do it, and i don't feel like i understand this enough to try it, beyond just copying someone else's 'known good' where known good is basically nothing noticeable has gone wrong yet. And that's not a knock on Dyotat but sometimes when something seems too easy it's because there's something about it that I don't realize which is the reason it's not done all the time.

I do strongly, strongly suspect the big stereo caps have a low voltage rating, because you RARELY see large (like Farads, not mF not uF not nF) caps that also have a rating up into the hundreds of volts. I believe those type of caps are extremely expensive compared to what most hobbyists run across in normal home appliances and automotive circuits, etc.
 
Ok, so i'm getting that basic part of it. I just have this hesitation about unintended side-effects.. Such as, the capacitor is 'cycling' at the same 60hz as the circuit, but.. does it charge and discharge rapidly enough with the AC waveform that it does not introduce 'poor power factor' into the circuit by making current flow lag slightly from voltage? Or is it not an issue of 'speed' but just that the total energy is so low it's a drop in the bucket of the circuit and noone cares?

And, mainly the sizing. I like that someone has a 20uF number that 'works' but i'd like to 'get my head around it' conceptually before implementing it.. like i was saying if you installed a big enough capacitor on an AC circuit it would essentially just eat the peaks and feed them back into the valleys and 'short' the AC source down to an averaged out 0v while probably getting ridiculously hot and ruining the source equipment. I get that the 20uf isn't doing THAT, but is it doing SOMETHING bad and we just don't realize it? Where is that line? The massive 1 farad stereo caps just mentioned, might be in that zone, but i dont know?!

I just hate to do anything electrical until im already ~95% certain what's going to happen when i DO do it, and i don't feel like i understand this enough to try it, beyond just copying someone else's 'known good' where known good is basically nothing noticeable has gone wrong yet. And that's not a knock on Dyotat but sometimes when something seems too easy it's because there's something about it that I don't realize which is the reason it's not done all the time.

I do strongly, strongly suspect the big stereo caps have a low voltage rating, because you RARELY see large (like Farads, not mF not uF not nF) caps that also have a rating up into the hundreds of volts. I believe those type of caps are extremely expensive compared to what most hobbyists run across in normal home appliances and automotive circuits, etc.
I've used it for a while. Only good benefits, nothing bad. Some inverters come with large caps already at the output. MPP was just too cheap.
 
Ok, so i'm getting that basic part of it. I just have this hesitation about unintended side-effects.. Such as, the capacitor is 'cycling' at the same 60hz as the circuit, but.. does it charge and discharge rapidly enough with the AC waveform that it does not introduce 'poor power factor' into the circuit by making current flow lag slightly from voltage? Or is it not an issue of 'speed' but just that the total energy is so low it's a drop in the bucket of the circuit and noone cares?

And, mainly the sizing. I like that someone has a 20uF number that 'works' but i'd like to 'get my head around it' conceptually before implementing it.. like i was saying if you installed a big enough capacitor on an AC circuit it would essentially just eat the peaks and feed them back into the valleys and 'short' the AC source down to an averaged out 0v while probably getting ridiculously hot and ruining the source equipment. I get that the 20uf isn't doing THAT, but is it doing SOMETHING bad and we just don't realize it? Where is that line? The massive 1 farad stereo caps just mentioned, might be in that zone, but i dont know?!

I just hate to do anything electrical until im already ~95% certain what's going to happen when i DO do it, and i don't feel like i understand this enough to try it, beyond just copying someone else's 'known good' where known good is basically nothing noticeable has gone wrong yet. And that's not a knock on Dyotat but sometimes when something seems too easy it's because there's something about it that I don't realize which is the reason it's not done all the time.

I do strongly, strongly suspect the big stereo caps have a low voltage rating, because you RARELY see large (like Farads, not mF not uF not nF) caps that also have a rating up into the hundreds of volts. I believe those type of caps are extremely expensive compared to what most hobbyists run across in normal home appliances and automotive circuits, etc.
If I remember correctly. It basically works like a surge suppressor in reverse. (Over simplified)
It doesn't draw fast enough to degrade the circuit.
Builds slowly and releases quickly.
 
So far all is good and my ceiling fan stay off. Was well worth the $12. I like to find a slightly larger one to see if it would get rid of the flicker I get here and there when AC comes on. Besides that it's great
 
So far all is good and my ceiling fan stay off. Was well worth the $12. I like to find a slightly larger one to see if it would get rid of the flicker I get here and there when AC comes on. Besides that it's great
You could just get another and put them in parallel.
 
So i think @RCinFLA may have inadvertently given some context to the sizing issue i was worried about in another thread where he said:

It would take 3 to 8 Farads of very low ESR capacitors on battery line input to have a significant impact on 2x AC line frequency battery line ripple current. This would be a couple hundred times more capacitance than typically inside inverter, on battery lines.
And even if you scale down the battery side current to what's flowing on a ~1kw 120v circuit and scale the capacitors by the same, is probably still a couple hundred times more than this 20uF thing!

So, orders of magnitude more capacitance required to screw up the AC waveform, than we are talking about here. I know this is very indirect but i think it's enough to make me not worry about that part of it.

In my career as an auto tech i have never had to do a damn bit of math on capacitors, and i only learned anything about AC in order to fix and modify my own house, so i am a babe in the woods with this stuff.
 
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After following this post I am going to install one on my 60A panel breaker to cover my well pump surge.
 
I suddenly remembered i once actually took some hot nasty stuff to the eyes when a capacitor blew up a few inches from my face. I dont expect that to happen here given that the 20uF number is ‘known good’ on some level, but.. maybe we should all be wearing saftey glasses when inventing new places to stick capacitors. ?
 
When powering up a new setup for the first time.
You shouldn't be looking at it. (Unless you are ok with it being the last thing you see)
 
I put in the 40 uf and seems to work fine. I still get a slight flicker when the AC comes on but only on 4' led tubes. A lot better. This one looks like a typical capacitor. Also I noticed when I went to switch out that the square one was making a buzzing sound. I will check tonight and see how the new one is doing after 3 days now
 
I ended up pulling the capacitor. It is putting a load on my inverters. The bigger the more load. Like a 10% load difference.

I'm looking into changing the remote on my fan instead to see if that does it. Only one out of 4 fans comes on and it is like 20 years old and comes on when power is tuned off and on.
 
I ended up pulling the capacitor. It is putting a load on my inverters. The bigger the more load. Like a 10% load difference.

I'm looking into changing the remote on my fan instead to see if that does it. Only one out of 4 fans comes on and it is like 20 years old and comes on when power is tuned off and on.
Well 20uf fixed my heat pump issue but I don't really see much of a difference with a 15kwh battery. Interesting that I still need it when I swapped it out for eg4's.
 
Yeah I have 30 kwh of battery. I just don't need the extra draw on my batteries. Adds up over the day and now that the days are shorter. Easier to fix the fan
 
I ended up pulling the capacitor. It is putting a load on my inverters. The bigger the more load. Like a 10% load difference.
But.. isnt that likely just a side effect of how the inverter ‘senses’ load?

Did you actually observe a difference in consumption over time?

I have a feeling this is related to the original issue of this thread, and some other threads that all originate from ‘believing’ the inverter’s onboard measurements.. that it may sample something over a very short timeframe, see something drastic happening that will actually be over so quickly no reaction is required, and then briefly overreacts to it until it samples again and sees that everything is normal. Or averages a number over time where one of the numbers it is averaging, is distorted because of the above time frame issue.
 
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