Check of my proposed system

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

I have read & watched videos till my head hurt, & sometimes just when I think I have it figured I question my choices!
Here's my approach so far for 6 month boondocking in S/W states.
Power requirements are pretty minimum, Micro Wave for short bursts, ability to switch fridge to 110V while travelling, usual lighting (12V LEDs), maybe couple hrs TV, typical trailer water pump. I'm trying to overbuild as opposed to keep upgrading later.

4x 200W roof mounted panels rated at 18.7 VMP & 10.70 IMP, planning to wire in Series - Parallel
Line fuses, I think 20A would suffice?
My understanding is panels wired Series-Parallel allows me to use the existing single 10awg or 12awg supply from the roof
Trailer is supposed to be Solar Ready which simply means it has a docking point on the roof
How do I determine which cables my RV used? & which is desired or required for my application?
Solar Panel Disconnect
Renogy 40A Controller
3,500 or 4,000W inverter (still to be decided on)
Battery Disconnect
2x 100A/H Lithium batteries wired for 12V (3rd to be added as $$ & necessity requires)
Go Power Transfer Switch to run power into existing rv distribution box (fuse panel)

Is this a reasonable system?
Am I missing anything?
Am I way out of wack on any item?

Thank You for advice & recommendations ahead of time
So happy to have found a forum willing to help beginners with advice

MisterSandals · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
Power requirements are pretty minimum, Micro Wave for short bursts, ability to switch fridge to 110V while travelling, usual lighting (12V LEDs), maybe couple hrs TV, typical trailer water pump. I'm trying to overbuild as opposed to keep upgrading later.

If you can determine your watt hour use per day, you will know how big to build, the first time.

Sportster said:
How do I determine which cables my RV used?

Can you open the port or trace the wires to or from the battery compartment? Might go to DC bus too which might reveal a fuse size as well.

Sportster said:
3,500 or 4,000W inverter (still to be decided on)

What are your AC loads?

If you are planning on running A/C, you are about 1/3 (or less) of solar panels needed.

John Frum · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
I have read & watched videos till my head hurt, & sometimes just when I think I have it figured I question my choices!
Here's my approach so far for 6 month boondocking in S/W states.
Power requirements are pretty minimum, Micro Wave for short bursts, ability to switch fridge to 110V while travelling, usual lighting (12V LEDs), maybe couple hrs TV, typical trailer water pump. I'm trying to overbuild as opposed to keep upgrading later.

6 months in the southwest without air conditioning?

Sportster said:
4x 200W roof mounted panels rated at 18.7 VMP & 10.70 IMP, planning to wire in Series - Parallel

VOC and ISC would be helpful.
Do you mean 2s2p?
Please post the data from the data plate.

Sportster said:
Line fuses, I think 20A would suffice?

You don't need over-current protection between the pv strings and the solar charge controller with less than 3 strings.
You do want a double pole single throw means of disconnect.

Sportster said:
My understanding is panels wired Series-Parallel allows me to use the existing single 10awg or 12awg supply from the roof

That is strange.
Why is it not all 12 awg or 10 awg?
Preferably 10 awg.

Sportster said:
Trailer is supposed to be Solar Ready which simply means it has a docking point on the roof
How do I determine which cables my RV used? & which is desired or required for my application?

Is there no writing on the cable?
Suggest you buy a 1 foot sample of 10 awg pv wire and compare.

Sportster said:
Solar Panel Disconnect

A double pole single throw disconnect switch is a good idea.

Sportster said:
Renogy 40A Controller

Why Renogy?

Sportster said:
3,500 or 4,000W inverter (still to be decided on)

The biggest inverter you should run at 12 volts nominal is 2000 watts continuous.
If you want to go to 24 or 48 volts then you can go higher.

Sportster said:
Battery Disconnect

May or may not be required.

Sportster said:
2x 100A/H Lithium batteries wired for 12V (3rd to be added as $$ & necessity requires)

Those batteries when pushed to the limit can supply ~200 amps max.
A 12 volt 2000 watt inverter can pull.
2000 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 10 volts low cutoff = 235.294117647 dc amps

Sportster said:
Go Power Transfer Switch to run power into existing rv distribution box (fuse panel)

Suggest you get an inverter/charger instead of discrete components.
An inverter/charger includes an automatic transfer switch.

Sportster said:
Is this a reasonable system?

Not really.
A 3500-4000 watt inverter requires >12 volt core voltage.
You will also need quite a bit more battery.

Sportster said:
Am I missing anything?

Are you sure your wife and kids will be ok without air conditioning?

Sportster said:
Am I way out of wack on any item?

The inverter/battery/panel ratio is out of whack.

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

John Frum said:
6 months in the southwest without air conditioning?
That would be Nov to March. Probably not needed!

John Frum said:
VOC and ISC would be helpful.

VOC 22.1V ISC 11.34A

John Frum said:
Do you mean 2s2p?

???

John Frum said:
Please post the data from the data plate.

How about

Extra Compact 200W (STC rating 195w) Monocrystalline Shingled Solar Panels [IN STOCK]

**IN STOCK** Description The new wave of solar panels is here! The extra compact shingled cell panel offers the highest efficiency for any panel in its class for the smallest size panel possible. You may wonder "how?". With the shingled technology the solar cells are overlapped, forgoing any...

solarpowerstore.ca

I can't just copy from info spec but it's there.

John Frum said:
That is strange.
Why is it not all 12 awg or 10 awg?
Preferably 10 awg.
Is there no writing on the cable?

I don't know what's factory installed in trailer at the moment, it's under 2 feet of snow & it's below zero F
I kinda assumed someone would be familiar with what a factory would install for basic set-up.

John Frum said:
Suggest you buy a 1 foot sample of 10 awg pv wire and compare.

I'm in rural Canada, there's no place to just go buy a foot of awg cable.

John Frum said:
Why Renogy?

From what I understand, it's name brand & available for a reasonable price up here.

John Frum said:
The biggest inverter you should run at 12 volts nominal is 2000 watts continuous.
If you want to go to 24 or 48 volts then you can go higher.

I can run 24V with 2 batteries but if I add the 3rd I'd be at 12V or 36V.
Are you saying the most output I can get with 3 x 100ah batteries is 2,000W from an inverter?

John Frum said:
Those batteries when pushed to the limit can supply ~200 amps max.
A 12 volt 2000 watt inverter can pull.
2000 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 10 volts low cutoff = 235.294117647 dc amps

Does that still apply if 3rd battery is added?

John Frum said:
Suggest you get an inverter/charger instead of discrete components.
An inverter/charger includes an automatic transfer switch.

A 3,000W Inverter/Charger up here is almost $800. I can get components for little over1/2 that.

John Frum said:
Not really.
A 3500-4000 watt inverter requires >12 volt core voltage.
You will also need quite a bit more battery.

What is "core voltage" I haven't read anything in inverter specs referring to it??

John Frum said:
Are you sure your wife and kids will be ok without air conditioning?

My youngest kid is 33yrs old, they won't be joining us in our winter escape. :<)

John Frum said:
The inverter/battery/panel ratio is out of whack.

John Frum · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
VOC 22.1V ISC 11.34A

???

2s2p is a concise way of saying 2 parralel strings of 2 panels in series.
You will see the nomenclature in reference to pv panels and also batteries.

Sportster said:
How about

Extra Compact 200W (STC rating 195w) Monocrystalline Shingled Solar Panels [IN STOCK]

**IN STOCK** Description The new wave of solar panels is here! The extra compact shingled cell panel offers the highest efficiency for any panel in its class for the smallest size panel possible. You may wonder "how?". With the shingled technology the solar cells are overlapped, forgoing any...

solarpowerstore.ca

Excellent

Sportster said:
I don't know what's factory installed in trailer at the moment, it's under 2 feet of snow & it's below zero F

Fair enough

Sportster said:
I'm in rural Canada, there's no place to just go buy a foot of awg cable.

Fair enough.
You might be able to get a meter of 10 awg thhn at the home depot in Peterborough.
Should be close to the same size.

These folks are not too far away from you.

Solacity - Canadian Green Power Goods & Great Advice!

YOUR Canadian source for all renewable energy supplies! Buy solar panels, charge controllers, inverters, batteries and more at great prices. We design too!

www.solacity.com

Sportster said:
From what I understand, it's name brand & available for a reasonable price up here.

Some of their products are ok and some are not so good.
My concern is there reputation for lousy support.

Sportster said:
I did a calculation from online formula which pointed out 2,000 Inverter was very minimum for charging 3 batteries with 800W solar

Discrete inverters don't charge batteries.
Inverter/chargers do though.

Sportster said:
Does that still apply if 3rd battery is added?

You could power a 2000 watt inverter with 3 100ah LFP batteries in parallel.
That should work fine.

Sportster said:
A 3,000W Inverter/Charger up here is almost $800.

I suspect you are referring to this one.

3000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/ LCD Display

Renogy 3000W pure sine wave inverter charger not only acts as a DC to AC converter but also charge and maintain a battery bank. Compatible with various batteries.

ca.renogy.com

3000 watts is pretty big for 12 volts, I don't recommend it.

Sportster said:
What is "core voltage" I haven't read anything is inverter specs referring to it??

The cores of the systems we build are 12, 24 or 48 volts nominal.

Sportster said:
My youngest kid is 33yrs old, they won't be joining us in our winter escape. :<)

Fair enough.
Will you be using shore power and/or a generator?

Wakintx · Feb 4, 2023

By "core voltage" he refers to it being a 12volt system inverter, for 3000watts you should be at least a 24volt system.

Wakintx · Feb 4, 2023

The Srne hybrid inverter at 24v, 3000w is probably pretty close to the price of the renogy 40amp SCC, a transfer switch and a halfways name brand inverter.

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

MisterSandals said:
If you can determine your watt hour use per day, you will know how big to build, the first time.

Can you open the port or trace the wires to or from the battery compartment? Might go to DC bus too which might reveal a fuse size as well.
Trailer is buried in snow right now!
What are your AC loads?

If you are planning on running A/C, you are about 1/3 (or less) of solar panels needed

No need for A/C Nov to March in AZ !

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

Wakintx said:
By "core voltage" he refers to it being a 12volt system inverter, for 3000watts you should be at least a 24volt system.

Thank You for reply
I see 3,000W Inverters advertised for 12V or 24V system but if/when I add a 3rd battery am I not at either 12V or 36V?

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

Wakintx said:
The Srne hybrid inverter at 24v, 3000w is probably pretty close to the price of the renogy 40amp SCC, a transfer switch and a halfways name brand inverter.

There again do I not need either 2 or 4 batteries for a 24V system?

Wakintx · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
There again do I not need either 2 or 4 batteries for a 24V system?

You really will need 4, 2 100amp lifepo4 are not really much storage. There are many ways to do this but as John said, 3000w is best from 24 or 48 volt system. 12v volts to 3000w is a lot. Yes, there are 3000w 12v inverors but I bet very hot, pushing it and thick battery cables.

I do like individual components but the price of 3000w or larger inverters isn't small change.

Truthfully doing a good energy audit, seeing what your "stuff" uses is pretty important because going bigger soon is expensive

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

John Frum said:
2s2p is a concise way of saying 2 parralel strings of 2 panels in series.
You will see the nomenclature in reference to pv panels and also batteries.
Thank You

You might be able to get a meter of 10 awg thhn at the home depot in Peterborough.
Should be close to the same size.

I really don't need any, as the awg is pre-installed in trailer, I just don't know what size it is. I would assume it can handle 800w panels wired 2s2p.

John Frum said:
These folks are not too far away from you

You must be Cdn too?? They are little over an hr away.

John Frum said:
Some of their products are ok and some are not so good.
My concern is there reputation for lousy support.

I'm open to suggestions on inverter!

John Frum said:
Discrete inverters don't charge batteries.
Inverter/chargers do though.

Sorry was typing faster can I can think.

John Frum said:
You could power a 2000 watt inverter with 3 100ah LFP batteries in parallel.
That should work fine.

I suspect you are referring to this one.

3000W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/ LCD Display

Renogy 3000W pure sine wave inverter charger not only acts as a DC to AC converter but also charge and maintain a battery bank. Compatible with various batteries.

ca.renogy.com

3000 watts is pretty big for 12 volts, I don't recommend it.

The cores of the systems we build are 12, 24 or 48 volts nominal.

Fair enough.
Will you be using shore power and/or a generator?

No shore power, I will have a generator with me but planning to not use it.

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

Wakintx said:
You really will need 4, 2 100amp lifepo4 are not really much storage. There are many ways to do this but as John said, 3000w is best from 24 or 48 volt system. 12v volts to 3000w is a lot. Yes, there are 3000w 12v inverors but I bet very hot, pushing it and thick battery cables.

I do like individual components but the price of 3000w or larger inverters isn't small change.

Truthfully doing a good energy audit, seeing what your "stuff" uses is pretty important because going bigger soon is expensive

Learned a lot here, now I will review my inverter choice for sure!
Not sure how to do an energy audit. I think my requirements are pretty small thou.

John Frum · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
Thank You for reply
I see 3,000W Inverters advertised for 12V or 24V system but if/when I add a 3rd battery am I not at either 12V or 36V?

batteries in parallel don't increase the voltage.
batteries in series do.
I don't recommend putting batteries in series.

Wakintx · Feb 4, 2023

My first system had a progressive Dynamics inverter, pd1618 an 1800 watt, 3200 surge inverter with transfer switch designed for RVs. Pore since wave,12volts. Could run quite a few things... Batteries and my 30amp SCC were a bottleneck.

A device called a kill-a-watt meter (or Chinese clone) can be plugged between devices and wall to measure amps, watts and totals. Cheap.

Sportster · Feb 4, 2023

Thoughts on this one??
I like the output terminals & the remote display is a little better than most.

https://www.amazon.ca/Novopal-Inverter-Converter-Outlets-Port-16-4/dp/B09BJJPTQD/ref=sr_1_26?crid=12NYJQKC9W2TV&keywords=inverters&qid=1675565554&sprefix=inverters%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-26

Again recommendations are acepted

Wakintx · Feb 4, 2023

No experience with the brand. No direct wire hookup, only plugins

MisterSandals · Feb 4, 2023

Sportster said:
No shore power, I will have a generator with me but planning to not use it

Sportster said:
Thoughts on this one??

So if you are setup somewhere for 5 months and your inverter fails, what do you do for AC?

The quick answer is your generator. How long will your gas last and what are your refill options?
What is your course of action to replace your inverter? Nearby stores or place to have one shipped?

Is there anything vital and lifesaving (other than a blow dryer) that absolutely needs to run?

Questions like these should determine your quality level which hopefully is related to reliability.
Do you want a $300 inverter that might last or a $800 inverter that will almost certainly last?

I'd need to know more before recommending one.

Sportster · Feb 5, 2023

Wakintx said:
No experience with the brand. No direct wire hookup, only plugins

Good catch, hadn't noticed that

Sportster · Feb 5, 2023

MisterSandals said:
So if you are setup somewhere for 5 months and your inverter fails, what do you do for AC?

The quick answer is your generator. How long will your gas last and what are your refill options?
What is your course of action to replace your inverter? Nearby stores or place to have one shipped?

Is there anything vital and lifesaving (other than a blow dryer) that absolutely needs to run?

Questions like these should determine your quality level which hopefully is related to reliability.
Do you want a $300 inverter that might last or a $800 inverter that will almost certainly last?

I'd need to know more before recommending one.

We have not used much AC(110V) in the past, but we have an Eco-Flow that will run a coffee maker, toaster & run the geny if were going to watch TV.
30gal on-board gas station for SxS, should be some gas left.

If inverter failed, I'm sure there's someplace in Az to purchase one, we also have a shipping point at friends in Parker.
Nothing vital or lifesaving needs to run.

Check of my proposed system

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