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A friend of mine wants to know the environmental impact of a solar farm.

It doesn't take high density to make solar a challenge. From personal experience, a 2-story, 50,000 SF office building with 200 parking spaces on a 5-acre property could only barely get to net-zero with a high efficiency HVAC system and solar everywhere it was possible. Project was in the California desert.

Once you go to three stories, low parking density, or a parking garage it is almost impossible. For Industrial facilities the challenge is that demand is usually much higher than any other application on a per square foot basis.

Residential rooftops are one of the few opportunities to go net-negative energy consumption with solar.
cs1234 said:
Electricity can be transmitted, and it can be stored in a variety of ways. We just need to shift our thinking about it to the positive side of the circuit.
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Sure... but when the cost per kWh of a grid-scale plant is 25% that of rooftop solar, rooftop solar needs to win on the distribution component rather than the energy component.
 
Since it's a utility company looking for land:
How the land gets used will be per their typical contract, because of voltages present fenced off from anyone other than "authorized users"
It will not be some 100KW ringy dink system, think in terms of MWHs
 
Shimmy said:
It doesn't take high density to make solar a challenge. From personal experience, a 2-story, 50,000 SF office building with 200 parking spaces on a 5-acre property could only barely get to net-zero with a high efficiency HVAC system and solar everywhere it was possible. Project was in the California desert.

Once you go to three stories, low parking density, or a parking garage it is almost impossible. For Industrial facilities the challenge is that demand is usually much higher than any other application on a per square foot basis.

Residential rooftops are one of the few opportunities to go net-negative energy consumption with solar.

Sure... but when the cost per kWh of a grid-scale plant is 25% that of rooftop solar, rooftop solar needs to win on the distribution component rather than the energy component.
Click to expand...

Not everything needs to net zero or be net negative to justify it. This is about much more than just raw costs. If we wait until everything makes sense financially, nothing will ever get done, or get done very slowly, perhaps too slowly.

I realize it's not always cost effective, sometimes we just have to take one for the team, or wait for a longer term payback than most private individuals / businesses are able/willing to.

I favor the residential rooftops/siding/fencing ideas the most, because it's the lowest hanging fruit, but it's not the only fruit. I like the idea of solar privacy fencing.. as long as you don't have dogs scratching it all up. Design some panels so they are each fence slat sized, leave a little room in between each one to let wind through.. it would be awesome..
 
cs1234 said:
Rain water that goes through smoggy heavily polluted air probably isn't that great either. Rain water that runs through left over petroleum / fracking waste is also not too tasty. Our water is already so contaminated that filtering it over some solar panels is probably not going to be what takes us down.

On a farm, assuming it's not just private land, being called a farm for tax purposes, those are certainly valid concerns. However, do most farms actually satisfy their water needs with water available on their own land or does it get brought in from elsewhere? I honestly don't know.
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I get the logic, but the common specific contaminants are Lead and Cadmium. You're bringing materials in that weren't there before. Regardless of the quality of the air, you're adding contaminants.

Many states regard all solar panels, regardless of type, as hazardous waste.

A scientific approach is warranted.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I get the logic, but the common specific contaminants are Lead and Cadmium. You're bringing materials in that weren't there before. Regardless of the quality of the air, you're adding contaminants.

Many states regard all solar panels, regardless of type, as hazardous waste.

A scientific approach is warranted.
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What do the states do with them once disposed of? Put them in a dump and cover them with other garbage I reckon. Many rural properties (farms) that I've seen have tons of old rusting crap, piles of tires and who only knows what on them. If the piles aren't there anymore, it's probably because they just burned it all.

The scientific approach to pollution is grand, but for some reason it only ever seems to be a consideration when talking about solar panels and batteries.
 
Agrivoltaics, sounds like it should come with a prescription for pain killers. lol
 
i
cs1234 said:
What do the states do with them once disposed of?
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I think a lot of them are recycled. The crews that do the removal may base there price of removal based on what they can get for the panels. Even at $25-50 per panel can add up.
 
Solar panels are pretty benign. The aluminium is a quick recycling win and the recycling processes are underway, here in Australia at least. We have half a dozen companies recycling panels already.

reneweconomy.com.au

Australia’s first solar panel recycling plant swings into action

Video footage posted on LinkedIn this week shows Lotus Energy’s Melbourne solar panel recycling plant in action – is it Australia’s first?
reneweconomy.com.au reneweconomy.com.au

Even so, if they all just went to land fill it would be bugger all compared to the toxic ash waste dumps of coal power plants.
 
Ampster said:
In Denmark, I saw sheep grazing underneath the panels keeping the grass low. Sheep are a better solution for a solar farm because sheep are shorter and do not tend to rub on the posts like I have heard cattle can do.
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Sheep are harder to deal with in North America. Too many predators. Definitely requires livestock guardian dogs (who tend to bark all night) and a willingness to dispatch coyotes and potentially other predators such as wolves and mountain lions (depending on area).
 
SilverbackMP said:
Sheep are harder to deal with in North America
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I see them trucked into places where I live all the time for managing grass. You can fit more in a truck and solar panels don't care about barking dogs. They seem to breed fast so who cares it you lose a few. They just used them at Sonoma Raceway to mow the grass field where they park cars at events. I will leave it up to the OPs friend to figure that one out. In the context of the environment impact of the OP's friend, he might be interested to know that sheep emit less methane than cattle per pound of grass consumed.?
 
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Ampster said:
I see them trucked into places where I live all the time for managing grass. You can fit more in a truck and solar panels don't care about barking dogs. They seem to breed fast so who cares it you lose a few. They just used them at Sonoma Raceway to mow the grass field where they park cars at events. I will leave it up to the OPs friend to figure that one out. In the context of the environment impact of the OP's friend, he might be interested to know that sheep emit less methane than cattle per pound of grass consumed.?
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Sonoma Raceway isn't bum frak Missouri or Arizona or Nebraska. I stand by the argument that they are impractical for much of RURAL North America unless you want intensive management. Homesteader/small holder types, sure. I don't see any farm of a decent size running them because they are too intensive to deal with. They die if you look at them the wrong way and they have no built in self-defense.

Edit: I would love if this weren't the case as I love lamb and mutton and it's expensive here.

2nd edit: methane/smeshane. Grassland needs ruminant animals for healthy soil...and there's no longer millions of bison to perform this function.
 
I know goat's would be bad under solar panels, those fuckers will eat anything they can reach, and climb up to anything else they cannot.
 
While I suspect the leasing would bring in good money, my biggest concern would be what happens at the end of the lease?

Assuming they do remove the equipment, how through of a job will they do? My guess is it will be a half-azz removal with lots of "surprises" to be found for years.

More importantly, what happens if they go out of business and abandon everything? That would have to be one hell of a mess for the land owner to cleanup and restore the land!
 
Wet1 said:
My guess is it will be a half-azz removal with lots of "surprises" to be found for years
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Why is that? I have been a landlord for thirty years and my leases specify the property would be returned in the same condition, otherwise the tenant does not get the security deposit back. I would assume for a transaction of that magnitude and length that the OP's friend would get some professional help drafting or negotiating terms.
 
Ampster said:
Why is that? I have been a landlord for thirty years and my leases specify the property would be returned in the same condition, otherwise the tenant does not get the security deposit back. I would assume for a transaction of that magnitude and length that the OP's friend would get some professional help drafting or negotiating terms.
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I've been a landlord for 25 and have worked on many comercial sites. My idea of cleanup and someone else's seldom matches, and most commercial cleanups I've seen are typically done quickly with little attention to detail (if not burying some of the mess, only to be found long afterwards). Obviously this is a generalization. Regardless, if this were my property, the aftermath would be my biggest concern.
 
Ampster said:
Yes, residential has its issues too. That is why I get a security deposit. I assume that is the same with commercial leases?
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The idea of a performance bond is likely better than a deposit; I doubt you could get cleanup costs for 25 years out as a deposit.
 
SilverbackMP said:
Sonoma Raceway isn't bum frak Missouri or Arizona or Nebraska. I stand by the argument that they are impractical for much of RURAL North America unless you want intensive management. Homesteader/small holder types, sure. I don't see any farm of a decent size running them because they are too intensive to deal with. They die if you look at them the wrong way and they have no built in self-defense.

Edit: I would love if this weren't the case as I love lamb and mutton and it's expensive here.

2nd edit: methane/smeshane. Grassland needs ruminant animals for healthy soil...and there's no longer millions of bison to perform this function.
Click to expand...
Ive seen what a pack of wild dogs can do to half a dozen sheep in a few minutes. Killed them all. A horrible, bloody mess and dealing with disposing the carcasses was a nightmare itself.
My neighbors quit 4h after that.
 
Some general thoughts.

Use bifacial panels to allow some light to penetrate to the ground beneath (and to harvest more power.)
Use ground screws for mounts since they are easily removed.
Choose a height based on what you want to do with the ground beneath. For sheep, you are going to want to locate feeder cables higher than they can reach.
Avoid trackers. They come with a significant amount of limitations on elevation changes and row spacing, and they can leak.
Set row spacing to allow sunlight through.
Do some hardscaping to ensure that the front edge of the panels (where they drain) will not erode too quickly. Could be as simple as planting tough grasses there.
 
The limit will be they own creativity, it's possible (as an example) to build a vegetable garden below the solar panels if it's high enough. I don't see much damage besides the space occupied on the field. It isn't like the solar panels will release toxic gases or chemicals while the time passes.
 
delbiorodrigues said:
The limit will be they own creativity, it's possible (as an example) to build a vegetable garden below the solar panels if it's high enough. I don't see much damage besides the space occupied on the field.
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Most plants don't grow well in full shade.

delbiorodrigues said:
It isn't like the solar panels will release toxic gases or chemicals while the time passes.
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Investigate the run off from rainwater of solar panels.
 
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