Need Help with Solar Edge SE7600H-US Inverter setup

MikeSpeegle · Sep 22, 2023

zanydroid said:
I doubt the PowMr is listed for grid tie (and no hybrid on the market will be with those batteries) and it seems scary/risky to combine 12V batteries in a size big enough for a house. Did you at least verify that the 12v BMS is tolerant of being built into a 48v pack?

You will need to keep using the SE unless you remove the optimizers and replace them with RSD. Forget any discussion out there about the compatibility stuff from SE like unlock Key, they don’t provide it anymore.

Yes they are valwood 12.6 x 250ah. And are designed to be in 2p/4s etc. each has 200amp BMS with all the normal stuff included Bluetooth and low temp shut off but I. Texas that’s like 5 days a year on low temp.

Valwood has certified the setup with this configuration using 2P/4s or 3P/4s if I get the last 4 batteries with the powrMr hybrid split phase inverter.

Also it will grid tie or generator tie off grid.

The SE only used 7.6 kWh of my panels. I will remove the optimizers and put 20 to each of the charge controllers in the PowrMr

Quattrohead · Sep 22, 2023

You do know that the company that sold you the system is going to come after you for unplugging their system.
You got mugged and that is bad, but your plans are going to cause even more problems for yourself.

MikeSpeegle · Sep 22, 2023

Quattrohead said:
You do know that the company that sold you the system is going to come after you for unplugging their system.
You got mugged and that is bad, but your plans are going to cause even more problems for yourself.

I own the system not lease. Can you explain what you mean. The company was Freedom Forever

MikeSpeegle · Sep 22, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
I own the system not lease. Can you explain what you mean. The company was Freedom Forever

Quattrohead said:
You do know that the company that sold you the system is going to come after you for unplugging their system.
You got mugged and that is bad, but your plans are going to cause even more problems for yourself.

Please if it gets any worse I will be living in an off grid cardboard box made out of solar panels. Lol not really but I can’t afford paying 3 times my normal electric bill monthly. This was a pull from my limited 401k to get the bills back into what I can pay.

400bird · Sep 22, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
I have ordered and received an

PowMr 10000W continuous and 20000W peak Split-Phase Solar Hybrid Inverter Pure Sine Wave 48V to 120/240V AC, Built-in Dual 100A MPPT Charger, 120A AC Charger, Can Batteryless Run + Wi fi Mudule

Why? Are you going to be upset if it doesn't last long?

MikeSpeegle said:
8 Vestwoods 12.8v 250 AH to be ran 2 sets of 4 series for a combined 48v 500ah @ 25.6 kWh (possibly adding 4 more for 38.4 kWh 3 sets in parallel of 4 x 12.8v 250 ah for combined 51.2v 750ah)

12 volt batteries in series require either extra attention from you or an external balancer to keep each battery in the series on balance.

MikeSpeegle said:
7600 Solar edge inverter which only handles 7.6 kWh. Most of my solar day is flat 7.59 kWh since this maximum of the inverter (see attached picture of sunny day)

It does go flat for a while, look at the curve. You aren't missing out on much power during the summer, it might hit 8.5 kw peak by my guess.
And you probably aren't missing any production at all in the winter.

MikeSpeegle said:
At this point I am paying $225 a month for my panels from them, and still paying $2500 in electricity. Oh and did i mention I over produce by 5-10%.

I'm curious, what was your power bill before solar?

MikeSpeegle said:
The SE only used 7.6 kWh of my panels.

FYI, your panels will never produce the name plate rating. 70-80% is pretty typical depending on where you are located, angle of the panels, etc.

MikeSpeegle said:
I will remove the optimizers and put 20 to each of the charge controllers in the PowrMr

If your panels are roof mounted, removing the optimizers also removes the rapid shut down (RSD) that provides safety for firefighters.

Quattrohead · Sep 23, 2023

It would be much easier to contact the power company and try to negotiate a better contract. It seems this is where the OP has been had.
Throwing cheap crappy components and removing safety is going down the wrong road.

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

Quattrohead said:
It would be much easier to contact the power company and try to negotiate a better contract. It seems this is where the OP has been had.
Throwing cheap crappy components and removing safety is going down the wrong road.

I have done that every company is offering the same rate to Solar +- few cents. I wouldn’t be doing this otherwise

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

400bird said:
Why? Are you going to be upset if it doesn't last long?

Was meaning if this doesn’t work

400bird said:
12 volt batteries in series require either extra attention from you or an external balancer to keep each battery in the series on balance

Each of the 200amp BMS in each 12.8v 250ah battery also has low temp shutoff and built in cell balancer at the 3.4v 250ah cell level. I also will be fully charging each 12.8v 250ah battery using 14.4v 20amp lifepo4 charger fully before putting in series.

See my attached connection setup by please understand that diagram does not show buss bars, shunt or fuses. I actually have some questions on what fuse to put on each parallel positve and from the shunt to the inverter.

400bird said:
It does go flat for a while, look at the curve. You aren't missing out on much power during the summer, it might hit 8.5 kw peak by my guess.

My point is that currently 65% captivity from my panels it’s flat because I have 40 x 290watt of panels for 11.4 kWh but the max on the inverter they put in is 7.6 kWh. My chosen inverter has dual mmpt controllers each handling 5.5 kWh for 11 kWh combined. I don’t expect to see more than slight 10-15% increase but everything is a plus.

400bird said:
And you probably aren't missing any production at all in the winter.

Yes maxes out In Winter at 7.58 kWh too. I am situated very well with my biggest part of my roof gets sun all day at great angle.

400bird said:
I'm curious, what was your power bill before solar?

My power bill avg $160 month. Now I pay $225 in loan and my power bill with the rip-off solar situation is 3000 with two months left so $260ish close to $500 combined

Also I overproduced each of my three years by over 10%. All the negative balance I built up before they changed the rates was are up this year.

I would rather go off electric grid and use a natural gas Genac Generator to cover extra needs than let them make all that money off my panels. Kind of a principle at this point.

400bird said:
FYI, your panels will never produce the name plate rating. 70-80% is pretty typical depending on where you are located, angle of the panels, etc.

See above

400bird said:
If your panels are roof mounted, removing the optimizers also removes the rapid shut down (RSD) that provides safety for firefighters.

What other options do I have. I don’t want AC coupled system that only runs when I go throw a breaker. And I get To lose Ac-dc-ac loss.

400bird · Sep 23, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
Was meaning if this doesn’t work

All I was saying is PowMr is a super cheap (quality, as in poorly built) inverter, not known to last long or be trouble free.

MikeSpeegle said:
Each of the 200amp BMS in each 12.8v 250ah battery also has low temp shutoff and built in cell balancer at the 3.4v 250ah cell level. I also will be fully charging each 12.8v 250ah battery using 14.4v 20amp lifepo4 charger fully before putting in series.

Fully charging each battery individually is a great start. But the BMS in each battery can only balance to cells within each battery. There's no way to keep cells in different batteries in balance. They will drift over time and get out of balance.

MikeSpeegle said:
My power bill avg $160 month. Now I pay $225 in loan and my power bill with the rip-off solar situation is 3000 with two months left so $260ish close to $500 combined

Sounds like a it was a bad deal, sorry to hear that.

MikeSpeegle said:
What other options do I have. I don’t want AC coupled system that only runs when I go throw a breaker. And I get To lose Ac-dc-ac loss.

You should keep the RSD by adding it back in. Tigo and APsystems both make RSD modules you attach to the panels, basically in place of the current optimizers.

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

400bird said:
All I was saying is PowMr is a super cheap (quality, as in poorly built) inverter, not known to last long or be trouble free.

Fully charging each battery individually is a great start. But the BMS in each battery can only balance to cells within each battery. There's no way to keep cells in different batteries in balance. They will drift over time and get out of balance.

Sounds like a it was a bad deal, sorry to hear that.

You should keep the RSD by adding it back in. Tigo and APsystems both make RSD modules you attach to the panels, basically in place of the current optimizers.

Wow cool.

I am starting to see what you mean on the PowrMr inverter. I just watched a ton of videos on the SolArk 15k. If I switched to that inverter and got a ecoWorthy balancer with 4 12v balancers to do each of the series would that be much better? Worth the extra 4k I might could swing that.

Thoughts ?

Also thanks

400bird · Sep 23, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
Wow cool.

I am starting to see what you mean on the PowrMr inverter. I just watched a ton of videos on the SolArk 15k. If I switched to that inverter and got a ecoWorthy balancer with 4 12v balancers to do each of the series would that be much better? Worth the extra 4k I might could swing that.

Thoughts ?

Also thanks

If you do that, you could leave the Solar Edge inverter and connect it to the gen input of the SolArk. This would save you a trip up to the roof and the expense of the Tigo RSD modules.

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

400bird said:
If you do that, you could leave the Solar Edge inverter and connect it to the gen input of the SolArk. This would save you a trip up to the roof and the expense of the Tigo RSD modules.

Would that be worth it since I have 4 kWh of panels that the inverter is not using as they installed 11.4 kWh in panels and only one 7.6 kWh inverter

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
Would that be worth it since I have 4 kWh of panels that the inverter is not using as they installed 11.4 kWh in panels and only one 7.6 kWh inverter

That sounds like a really easy way to jump in I could always pull the extra off and wire them into one of the charge controllers to get use of the panels not being used. How expensive are the Tigo modules?

MikeSpeegle · Sep 23, 2023

400bird said:
If you do that, you could leave the Solar Edge inverter and connect it to the gen input of the SolArk. This would save you a trip up to the roof and the expense of the Tigo RSD modules.

Can you give me a little details on how I would handle keeping the 12.8v batteries balanced if the cells in each would be balanced. I understand your saying that even thought the 3.4v cells in each 12v battery would be balanced but that the voltage in each 12.8v battery of the 51.2v groups would drift out of balance. Would I be correct in assuming 3 48v battery balancers would handle that for me?

If not can you give me a educated guess on how often they would drift and what I could do to fix? Brit removing one fuse and fully charging each battery and putting back in series and hooking back up in parallel or what ever you suggest.

I will be honest I don’t think I can afford to get enough batteries any other way I got 51.2v 750ah for $6,900 and in order to go another direction I would have to ship back. They are still in the box.but we are talking about me paying shipping for 12 boxes @ 76 lbs each from Texas to California. I can get only 500ah of SoK for that price maybe 300ah after paying shipping.

Personally I like messing with the battery stuff I am retired/disabled with lots of time so if it’s just a little work I am all in.

Please let me know your thoughts. I am actually listening now. Sorry for being a little bullheaded.

400bird · Sep 23, 2023

MikeSpeegle said:
Would that be worth it since I have 4 kWh of panels that the inverter is not using as they installed 11.4 kWh in panels and only one 7.6 kWh inverter

Right, I forgot half your goal. Doh!
You could put some subset of panels (3-4kw?) onto the SolArk. That way you would need to purchase significantly fewer RSD modules (just for the re-allocated panels)

MikeSpeegle said:
Can you give me a little details on how I would handle keeping the 12.8v batteries balanced if the cells in each would be balanced. I understand your saying that even thought the 3.4v cells in each 12v battery would be balanced but that the voltage in each 12.8v battery of the 51.2v groups would drift out of balance. Would I be correct in assuming 3 48v battery balancers would handle that for me?

Something like this is a product specifically designed to keep series 12v batteries balanced.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Equalizer-48V-Voltage-Balancer/dp/B07L8WKKC3/ref=asc_df_B07L8WKKC3

I've never used that specific one, nor am I advocating that one, just showing what you're looking for. I think that's what you meant by 48v balancers, so I'll bet you already knew.

MikeSpeegle said:
If not can you give me a educated guess on how often they would drift and what I could do to fix? Brit removing one fuse and fully charging each battery and putting back in series and hooking back up in parallel or what ever you suggest.

Hard to say, seems like it's at least an annual thing based on the reports here. But, every system is different.

MikeSpeegle said:
I will be honest I don’t think I can afford to get enough batteries any other way I got 51.2v 750ah for $6,900 and in order to go another direction I would have to ship back. They are still in the box.but we are talking about me paying shipping for 12 boxes @ 76 lbs each from Texas to California. I can get only 500ah of SoK for that price maybe 300ah after paying shipping.

Did you buy more batteries already?! It was 8 earlier. If you didn't already hear this was addicting, you've found out on your own. ?

MikeSpeegle said:
Please let me know your thoughts. I am actually listening now. Sorry for being a little bullheaded.

I think you're heading in the right direction, welcome to the fun.

MikeSpeegle said:
That sounds like a really easy way to jump in I could always pull the extra off and wire them into one of the charge controllers to get use of the panels not being used. How expensive are the Tigo modules?

$30-40 per panel
Plus the transmitter, the SolArk may already have a transmitter internally. Also, SolArk may have come out with their own RSD.

Tigo TS4 Rapid Shutdown Solutions

The TS4 platform from Tigo allows for several different solutions for module level rapid shutdown. Complies with NEC 2014, 2017, and 2020 rapid shutdown requirements.

www.altestore.com

MikeSpeegle · Sep 25, 2023

400bird said:
Right, I forgot half your goal. Doh!
You could put some subset of panels (3-4kw?) onto the SolArk. That way you would need to purchase significantly fewer RSD modules (just for the re-allocated panels)

Something like this is a product specifically designed to keep series 12v batteries balanced.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Equalizer-48V-Voltage-Balancer/dp/B07L8WKKC3/ref=asc_df_B07L8WKKC3

I've never used that specific one, nor am I advocating that one, just showing what you're looking for. I think that's what you meant by 48v balancers, so I'll bet you already knew.

Hard to say, seems like it's at least an annual thing based on the reports here. But, every system is different.

Did you buy more batteries already?! It was 8 earlier. If you didn't already hear this was addicting, you've found out on your own. ?

I think you're heading in the right direction, welcome to the fun.

$30-40 per panel
Plus the transmitter, the SolArk may already have a transmitter internally. Also, SolArk may have come out with their own RSD.

Tigo TS4 Rapid Shutdown Solutions

The TS4 platform from Tigo allows for several different solutions for module level rapid shutdown. Complies with NEC 2014, 2017, and 2020 rapid shutdown requirements.

www.altestore.com

Haha yes it is addictive and yes I just bought 4 more lol thank you so much for your assistance and advice.

Brett V · Sep 25, 2023

If you have a Solar edge inverter, you also have Solar edge optimizers on each solar panel. Without communication between the inverter and optimizers, they shut down and will produce no power. Without the grid connected, the inverter also shuts down.

MikeSpeegle · Sep 25, 2023

Brett V said:
If you have a Solar edge inverter, you also have Solar edge optimizers on each solar panel. Without communication between the inverter and optimizers, they shut down and will produce no power. Without the grid connected, the inverter also shuts down.

That is what I am trying to avoid.

MikeSpeegle · Feb 12, 2024

Thanks for all the help it’s been live for the month of February. No grid used and sent 250kwh to the grid. Survived 3 horrible sun days of rain.

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