Sol-Ark, EG4 Communications Hub/LifePower4 - Solar Assistant configuration

Quattrohead said:

Battery to Solark is CAN bus ?
Battery to Pi is RS485 via RS485 to USB adapter ?

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The batteries in my system do not communicate with the Sol-Ark, the batteries communicate with the CommHub and the Hub talks to the Sol-ark using CAN Bus.

The Pi to the batteries is what you mentioned, RS485 to USB. Or specifically this cable from Signature Solar.

Here is a picture that shows exactly which ports are connected where in the system

muaddib721 said:

Here's an interesting video with a way to see individual batteries without multi pi's

Click to expand...

I think you might have misunderstood what I said, you can see multiple batteries in a single-battery array.

What you can't do is see for example an SOK and a EG4 LL battery's details in SA at the same time. You have to choose one protocol or the other for different manufacturers/types.

When you choose your batteries to display in SA you have to make a single choice for the battery (type) from the list. So if you have multiple EG4 batteries all similar in the communication type, then you can see all of them together. But, if you have multiple batteries using multiple protocols for communication you cannot make more than one choice at a time from the list.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

Each battery is displayed with it's individual data, and Solar Assistant also does an aggregate calculation shown at the top of the page in the green box.

For some reason my scrolling capture is missing the middle part of the image, but you get the point, in my live page there are all 12 batteries listed.

View attachment 169685

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Perfect thanks

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

The batteries in my system do not communicate with the Sol-Ark, the batteries communicate with the CommHub and the Hub talks to the Sol-ark using CAN Bus.

The Pi to the batteries is what you mentioned, RS485 to USB. Or specifically this cable from Signature Solar.

Here is a picture that shows exactly which ports are connected where in the system

Click to expand...

That comms hub is pretty cool then, nice.
Mine was a half question, half trying to help mr721 understand and make sure he did not miss the RS485 to USB conversion
I do wish SA could handle multiple battery types at the same time, but I was told it is a year out.
So I bought another JBD and now have a spare JK !!!

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

I think you might have misunderstood what I said, you can see multiple batteries in a single-battery array.

What you can't do is see for example an SOK and a EG4 LL battery's details in SA at the same time. You have to choose one protocol or the other for different manufacturers/types.

When you choose your batteries to display in SA you have to make a single choice for the battery (type) from the list. So if you have multiple EG4 batteries all similar in the communication type, then you can see all of them together. But, if you have multiple batteries using multiple protocols for communication you cannot make more than one choice at a time from the list.

View attachment 169716

Click to expand...

Copy that I'm crystal clear now. I can't wait to do an experiment to see if a rack of 6 EG4 LL V2 batteries can daisy chain communications with 3 of the new EG4 Power Pro wall batteries. I already know that I can't have them connected in parallel with my 15k's without voiding the warranty (different AH, even though it would function without a closed loop communication) EG4 and the techs as Solar Sovereign made that clear. But I could see if I could connect them to SA and monitor them all that way even though I will only by using one group of batteries at a time. My wife says I'm like a mad scientist with all this solar gear.

muaddib721 said:

Here's an interesting video with a way to see individual batteries without multi pi's

Click to expand...

Yes that was a bad video ignore that... my bad didn't see you picture with the pack information displayed before I went down another rabbit hole.
???

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

The batteries in my system do not communicate with the Sol-Ark, the batteries communicate with the CommHub and the Hub talks to the Sol-ark using CAN Bus.

The Pi to the batteries is what you mentioned, RS485 to USB. Or specifically this cable from Signature Solar.

Here is a picture that shows exactly which ports are connected where in the system

View attachment 169713

Click to expand...

The cable you linked from Signature Solar is the same cable they send with EG4 batteries for communication with your laptop correct?

muaddib721 said:

Copy that I'm crystal clear now. I can't wait to do an experiment to see if a rack of 6 EG4 LL V2 batteries can daisy chain communications with 3 of the new EG4 Power Pro wall batteries. I already know that I can't have them connected in parallel with my 15k's without voiding the warranty (different AH, even though it would function without a closed loop communication) EG4 and the techs as Solar Sovereign made that clear. But I could see if I could connect them to SA and monitor them all that way even though I will only by using one group of batteries at a time. My wife says I'm like a mad scientist with all this solar gear.

Click to expand...

With regards to the PowerPro, you're going to be in uncharted territory. I'm not aware of who makes the BMS in that unit and it's not currently listed in the supported batteries for Solar Assistant.

muaddib721 said:

The cable you linked from Signature Solar is the same cable they send with EG4 batteries for communication with your laptop correct?

Click to expand...

Well, it is currently, it's my understanding the cable was different in the past, but yes if you bought your batteries recently from Signature Solar, say June 2023 or later I can confirm it's the same one. The picture of the cable on the website is out of date, the current cable doesn't have that green screw connector and instead is a nice molded plastic end.

I also called Signature Solar to confirm this a few days ago before I purchased two more, when they arrived they were the exact same as the ones that came with my batteries.

Quattrohead said:

That comms hub is pretty cool then, nice.
Mine was a half question, half trying to help mr721 understand and make sure he did not miss the RS485 to USB conversion
I do wish SA could handle multiple battery types at the same time, but I was told it is a year out.
So I bought another JBD and now have a spare JK !!!

Click to expand...

I may be a little slow but what abbreviation does JBD and JK stand for?

DELETED: didn't want to change topics

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

I may be a little slow but what abbreviation does JBD and JK stand for?

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JBD BMS and JK BMS.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

With regards to the PowerPro, you're going to be in uncharted territory. I'm not aware of who makes the BMS in that unit and it's not currently listed in the supported batteries for Solar Assistant.

EG4 battery setup in SolarAssistant

How to connect an EG4 battery to SolarAssistant.

solar-assistant.io

Click to expand...

EG4 just put out a new video and the configuration process seems to be the same as for the LL V2's... and you're right it will definitely be uncharted territory so I'll let you know when I know. Probably do a video on the results no matter if its positive or negative.

Could you put a link to the video?

muaddib721 said:

configuration process seems to be the same as for the LL V2's

Click to expand...

Display seems to be the same, so the BMS could be the same or similar between them.
It will be interesting to find out if the comms are the same.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

A couple points of clarification for consideration.

1. Solar Assistant (SA) can only communicate with one source at a time for battery information. If I want to view the data from the Victron shunt, I have to stop the connection in SA, and switch the USB input selection to the port the Victron is connected to. Afterward, if I want to flip back to direct communication with the EG4 batteries, I have to repeat the same steps forgoing active communication with the Victron. Basically, it's one or the other, multiple simultaneous battery measurement sources cannot be monitored at the same time (maybe SA will add this in the future, but I have no awareness of whether it could be included in their upcoming development plans).
   
   
2. If you want to see the individual battery data in SA, you can only do this by directly getting the data from each battery. SA cannot parse the aggregate battery data communicated to either the ComHub or the Inverter into individual battery data.

The reason I have the shunt is for validation, if I ever feel like the data from the batteries could be wrong, the shunt is my single source of truth that accurately measures the entire volume of energy in or out of the batteries. I keep it connected to SA so that in a remote situation I can toggle settings in HA and view it remotely, otherwise, if I'm onsite, I use the Victron app with Bluetooth to look at the shunt. Yes, I could purchase a CerboGX and make the shunt data always local and remotely accessible, but I don't need the data bad enough to justify purchasing another $300+ dollar device for this purpose.

If you decide it's a must-have to simultaneously see the individual battery data from all your different types of batteries, "assuming they're supported by SA", then you'll need multiple Pis with SA for each battery type/protocol. If you went down this road, you would have to toggle back and forth between different SA instances. The only way to combine that data into a single location would then be to feed that data from your multiple SA instances using MQTT to Home Assistant and build a dashboard.

Hopefully, that helps, if you want to soundboard your ideas or share your plans I'm always willing to find a quick time for a phone call, private message me if interested.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I have my two 15k's talking to solar assistant and I know how to change the setting to view them both. I also have the smart shunt connected to the pi but I can't figure out the setting to view it remotely.... what setting do you use when you switch to the victron smart shunt? Thanks in advance

muaddib721 said:

I have my two 15k's talking to solar assistant and I know how to change the setting to view them both. I also have the smart shunt connected to the pi but I can't figure out the setting to view it remotely.... what setting do you use when you switch to the victron smart shunt? Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

In the battery settings of Solar Assistant “SA” choose the Victron option. This will tell SA to track SOC, voltage, current etc from the Victron Shunt. You don’t see the actual Victron interface, you simply see the values from the shunt.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

A couple points of clarification for consideration.

1. Solar Assistant (SA) can only communicate with one source at a time for battery information. If I want to view the data from the Victron shunt, I have to stop the connection in SA, and switch the USB input selection to the port the Victron is connected to. Afterward, if I want to flip back to direct communication with the EG4 batteries, I have to repeat the same steps forgoing active communication with the Victron. Basically, it's one or the other, multiple simultaneous battery measurement sources cannot be monitored at the same time (maybe SA will add this in the future, but I have no awareness of whether it could be included in their upcoming development plans).
   
   
2. If you want to see the individual battery data in SA, you can only do this by directly getting the data from each battery. SA cannot parse the aggregate battery data communicated to either the ComHub or the Inverter into individual battery data.

Click to expand...

Let me see if I have this right.

PREMISE_1:
For SA to "read" Inverter information, it requires a data connection at/near the Inverter comm port.

PREMISE_2:
For SA to "read" Battery information, it requires a data connection at/near the string of batteries, ideally at one "end" of the string.

OBSERVATION:
Some combinations of Inverters and Batteries require an intermediate "Communication Hub" for the former to read and direct the latter.
SUB-PREMISE_1 Not all information available either destination survives the transit through the hub.

QUERY_1
Is there any difference in the information available at the proximal and distal ends of the string of Batteries? If so, what are those differences?

QUERY_2:
If not, wouldn't a splitter placed at the proximal end of the Battery string (i.e., between the Batteries and the Hub/Inverter) achieve the same data result as having the data connection at the distal end of the string (at Battery #7 in your set-up)?

RELATED QUERY:
If no Hub was required between the Inverter and Battery string, would the single splitter adjacent to the Inverter be able to read all the Inverter information AND all the Battery information? If not, why not?

Separately, what is the difference to SA from reading Inverter data and the Battery string data (presumably at once) and being able to read the Shunt data? (Wherein your example, it would read, presumably Inverter data and Shunt data at once). Is there something categorically different in the data, as processed by the Pi, that makes "Inverter/Battery" or "Inverter/Shunt" work, but not "Battery/Shunt" or "Inverter/Battery/Shunt"?

I don't yet own any of the aforementioned equipment, but have been researching for awhile now. I have started collecting the software components to mock-up various configurations in an emulation environment, so I want to learn as much as I can about the physical constraints and practical limitations on linking various components together before I spent a ton of money buying hardware/equipment (that may not behave as nicely as a software emulation).

Sorry for the length of this post, but inquiring minds want to know.
MDS

OBSERVATION:
Some combinations of Inverters and Batteries require an intermediate "Communication Hub" for the former to read and direct the latter.
SUB-PREMISE_1 Not all information available either destination survives the transit through the hub.

Click to expand...

The HUB is only needed because the batteries cannot send their data directly to the inverter, it has no purpose with SA.

QUERY_1
Is there any difference in the information available at the proximal and distal ends of the string of Batteries? If so, what are those differences?

Click to expand...

No difference, the information flows between each connected battery using the network cable much like a network hub, rebroadcasting the information.

QUERY_2:
If not, wouldn't a splitter placed at the proximal end of the Battery string (i.e., between the Batteries and the Hub/Inverter) achieve the same data result as having the data connection at the distal end of the string (at Battery #7 in your set-up)?

Click to expand...

The splitter is used on the "Inverter" so that both SA and the CommHub can talk to the Inverter, not so you can split the battery communication in multiple ways. Both SA and the CommHub are speaking RS435 to the batteries, the CommHum is relaying that data via CANBUS to the Inverter using a separate set of wires/pins. Basically the port on the Sol-Ark, the RJ45 port has certain sets of pins that do different things.

RELATED QUERY:
If no Hub was required between the Inverter and Battery string, would the single splitter adjacent to the Inverter be able to read all the Inverter information AND all the Battery information? If not, why not?

Click to expand...

No hub is required when using for example the EG4_LL batteries, they can speak natively to the Sol-Ark inverter. The HUB translates RS435 to CANBUS because the Lifepower batteries do not have this ability in their BMS. The HUB has no purpose for SA, it's just there to tell the inverter what's happening with the batteries. The splitter is there so the single port on the inverter can be used to receive data from the inverter for SA and so that the HUB can send data to the inverter, for whatever design reason this occurs over a single RJ45 port.

Separately, what is the difference to SA from reading Inverter data and the Battery string data (presumably at once) and being able to read the Shunt data? (Wherein your example, it would read, presumably Inverter data and Shunt data at once). Is there something categorically different in the data, as processed by the Pi, that makes "Inverter/Battery" or "Inverter/Shunt" work, but not "Battery/Shunt" or "Inverter/Battery/Shunt"?

Click to expand...

I should have never mentioned the shunt, it confuses everyone. I don't "actively" use the shunt, I have it so connected to SA so that I "could" make it the source for battery data and see that in SA, which SA is remotely accessible. The shunt is only Bluetooth and its data cannot be read remotely without some sort of host, AKA SA or a Victron Cerbo-type device. The shunt is my validation component, if I ever feel like the data I'm getting from the batteries after a botched firmware update, or something else is odd, I can use the shunt to validate it, and why not have it connected to SA, so that I can see it from my phone/tablet/computer wherever SA is available remotely instead of only while I'm standing near it over it's limited Bluetooth range.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

The HUB is only needed because the batteries cannot send their data directly to the inverter, it has no purpose with SA.


No difference, the information flows between each connected battery using the network cable much like a network hub, rebroadcasting the information.


The splitter is used on the "Inverter" so that both SA and the CommHub can talk to the Inverter, not so you can split the battery communication in multiple ways. Both SA and the CommHub are speaking RS435 to the batteries, the CommHum is relaying that data via CANBUS to the Inverter using a separate set of wires/pins. Basically the port on the Sol-Ark, the RJ45 port has certain sets of pins that do different things.


No hub is required when using for example the EG4_LL batteries, they can speak natively to the Sol-Ark inverter. The HUB translates RS435 to CANBUS because the Lifepower batteries do not have this ability in their BMS. The HUB has no purpose for SA, it's just there to tell the inverter what's happening with the batteries. The splitter is there so the single port on the inverter can be used to receive data from the inverter for SA and so that the HUB can send data to the inverter, for whatever design reason this occurs over a single RJ45 port.


I should have never mentioned the shunt, it confuses everyone. I don't "actively" use the shunt, I have it so connected to SA so that I "could" make it the source for battery data and see that in SA, which SA is remotely accessible. The shunt is only Bluetooth and its data cannot be read remotely without some sort of host, AKA SA or a Victron Cerbo-type device. The shunt is my validation component, if I ever feel like the data I'm getting from the batteries after a botched firmware update, or something else is odd, I can use the shunt to validate it, and why not have it connected to SA, so that I can see it from my phone/tablet/computer wherever SA is available remotely instead of only while I'm standing near it over it's limited Bluetooth range.

Click to expand...

So, to boil it down, the "categorical difference" is the comm protocol; RS435 for the batteries, and CANBUS for the inverter. And, SA can only process one protocol on a USB port at a time, hence needing two ports. Makes sense. Thank you.

As for the "Shunt" question, it has less to do with the fact that it is a shunt, and more to do with SA only receiving one channel of "Battery" data at a time (a [current] software limitation). It could just as well be the "different types of batteries" issue. Again only one at a time in SA. The solution, of course (as you noted above) is to deploy multiple SAs, and pass that data to HA (or equivalent) for reporting, aggregation, or "automation." Again, thank you for your clarifications. It is very helpful.

Now, where's my next rabbit hole?!?.... :->
MDS

I have 5 LL v'2 and I'm regretting it more and more every day. The screens wake up ridiculously slow. I guess the extra warranty will be nice. I will mess around with them this weekend when I get back over to the property but I think I already know the answer. If I have battery 1 speaking directly to the solark 15K on CAN, will battery 1 show up on the SA? I'm waiting on SS to send me a second cable. I figured each battery came with one but no such luck.

kelvinfpv said:

I have 5 LL v'2 and I'm regretting it more and more every day. The screens wake up ridiculously slow. I guess the extra warranty will be nice. I will mess around with them this weekend when I get back over to the property but I think I already know the answer. If I have battery 1 speaking directly to the solark 15K on CAN, will battery 1 show up on the SA? I'm waiting on SS to send me a second cable. I figured each battery came with one but no such luck.

Click to expand...

The LL batteries supposedly have a native ability to talk to a Sol-Ark individually. So as long as each battery is daisy chained to the next and one battery is ultimately connected on the right port to the Sol-Ark, and the batteries are using the correct inverter COMM mode, then the Sol-Ark should see all the batteries individually.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

The LL batteries supposedly have a native ability to talk to a Sol-Ark individually. So as long as each battery is daisy chained to the next and one battery is ultimately connected on the right port to the Sol-Ark, and the batteries are using the correct inverter COMM mode, then the Sol-Ark should see all the batteries individually.

Click to expand...

message sent. please check.

I am trying to get comms established Between my eg4ll v1 and v2 batteries with the solar assistant. I have a few emails into solar assistant but have not gotten a response from them. I have tried multiple cables, i have tried multiple addresses, i have tried single batteries and string of batteries. They connect just fine to my so-ark without issue, however i DO NOT WANT closed loop with my inverter. I only want to monitor my Batts through sa. Has anyone had success actually getting sa to communicate with the eg4ll series of batteries?

Your direct connection to your batteries (not the hub connecting to the splitter) from the Pi.... what are the settings you're using in SA to see the battery data? CAN Protocol in the battery tab?