diy solar

diy solar

Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

My installation is more for the convenience of having power during grid outages ( up to three times a day for 2 hours each ). Going from one of the best run national power utilities in the world in the 90’s ( generating more than 60% of all the electricity on the African continent ) to one of the worst , thanks to our wonderful government. Here in sunny South Africa you are required to install a bi-directional power meter at your cost ( about $US 600 ) and you are not allowed to export more than your average yearly usage / year. So what is the point in exporting to the grid ?
 
robstrom said:
From my reading, the early days of solar were adventurous 'stick it to the man' types.
Offgrid/ back to the land...
Now, it's more of "I can save $ .01 by tieing into grid, get some subsidies/grants from government.
Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?
I'm almost 60, and new (5 years) to solar.
I'm pretty much anti everything government (cuz I read history), going for some level of disconnect/self sufficiency.
Isn't that the point of solar??
Save a penny, to commit to the government teat seems ingenious to the founders of 'the cause.'
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The way I see it is, nobody gonna make their money back tying to grid if they're in north america, power is too cheap
insurance now charging money to have panels on roof
grid tie is several thousand more.. you get like 3 cents per kwh probably at most
you need an array the size of peoples neighborhood to get some money just to pay that insurance extra
and then to pay off extra tie cost takes a million years by itself
I just hook it up either entirely off grid or with grid as backup


The history is interesting too. How much the oil industry put in it for "good guy points" because they thought it'd never go anywhere lol
 
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dougbert said:
YES - so true. found a copy in local library. Remember Gorilla Solar section?

hippees in 1970 turned solar gurus
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I just downloaded 188 issues of home power off their site. So if anyone wants to read it they have them all there to download as pdf files.

www.homepower.com

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

An archive of the complete 31-year history of Home Power magazine. 188 digital back issues capture a three decade history of the renewable energy movement in the U.S. and beyond. Each issue is available for non-commercial use at no cost to registered members of this site.
www.homepower.com www.homepower.com
 
gotbeans said:
The way I see it is, nobody gonna make their money back tying to grid if they're in north america, power is too cheap
insurance now charging money to have panels on roof
grid tie is several thousand more.. you get like 3 cents per kwh probably at most
you need an array the size of peoples neighborhood to get some money just to pay that insurance extra
and then to pay off extra tie cost takes a million years by itself
I just hook it up either entirely off grid or with grid as backup
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Depends on the state. In MN, people I know are actually making money selling back. You can install up to 40kW AC system (more than 40kW of panels) for residential and get retail rate payback. Undersize your micros to max out to 40kW, they only clip a few days of the month on average. You can have two meters as long as there is a house on the property. So one solar system for own consumption (or just use grid) and another solar system just for selling back.

I didn’t ask for specific amounts, but it is hundreds of dollars a week in profit.
 
Danke said:
Depends on the state. In MN, people I know are actually making money selling back. You can install up to 40kW AC system (more than 40kW of panels) for residential and get retail rate payback. Undersize your micros to max out to 40kW, they only clip a few days of the month on average.

I didn’t ask for specific amounts, but it is hundreds of dollars a week in profit.
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Yea at that massive size it makes sense. I see tons of homes with 5-10 panels. Probably a majority of homes I see have that many. No way they're making anything back this decade or next lol. Places that are starting to up the insurance rates are just stealing money and they know it
 
gotbeans said:
Yea at that massive size it makes sense. I see tons of homes with 5-10 panels. Probably a majority of homes I see have that many. No way they're making anything back this decade or next lol. Places that are starting to up the insurance rates are just stealing money and they know it
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Keep it as a ground mount system, of course you need land for that.
 
Q-Dog said:
The point of my solar is to have power when the grid fails. It's a bonus if I become less dependent on the man along the way.

One of my neighbors asked about my solar panels, and when I explained it was mostly for a backup he asked, "how long for that to pay for itself?" And I asked how long before his gas generator would pay for itself.
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how long does insurance take to pay for itself?
never or one major accident.

the system I have built makes no financial sense, but thats not why im doing it.
1. learning a lot. challenging puzzle with lots of little efficiency games to chase. especially in winter with 3hrs of light and -30f
2. to see if I can/how little external energy I need.
3. not participating in the utility companies. no right of way easements on my land which opens up routes for trespass, incursion, and utility extensions. dont let the camel's nose in the tent.
 
Nobodybusiness said:
Yup. That’s what it was. Hippies who went solar.

I can’t remember where I saw my first issue.
Probably an ad in Mother Earth news or something.

I still have all my old magazines in a crate somewhere.
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Near the end of their publication years they gave online access to their entire archive with an annual subscription. Took a quite a number of hours to download all of it but I find myself referring to it often. It's really cool seeing how it evolved from a crude backroom publication to the larger, glossier magazine it became.
 
Well yeah the corporations are always going to try and grab what they can and make as much money as they can. That's just the nature of the beast. And that's why I prefer to be independent of them. The phone company enjoyed a monopoly for decades but it was strictly controlled...not so much the utilities with deregulation and all.

I will not sell them power and let them mark it up and sell it to my neighbor. I'd rather supply my neighbor directly with power and perhaps get something in return....
 
In the UK at least, the cost of an install eligible for Grants and/or selling back to grid is still way more than going DIY using 2nd hand equipment. The regulating installer monopoly likes their pound of flesh/perks so it will always be that way. As the MCS approved install price drops so do the 2nd hand equipment prices.
 
I've been through both New England ice storms of the last 26 years for a total power outage duration exceeding 15 days. I now have a standby generator, but it consumes propane faster than they will deliver it. I keep hearing how weak the electrical grid is. That's my motivation, but it's nice that the system will pay for itself in 10 years.
 
Crowz said:
I just downloaded 188 issues of home power off their site. So if anyone wants to read it they have them all there to download as pdf files.

www.homepower.com

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

An archive of the complete 31-year history of Home Power magazine. 188 digital back issues capture a three decade history of the renewable energy movement in the U.S. and beyond. Each issue is available for non-commercial use at no cost to registered members of this site.
www.homepower.com www.homepower.com
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did the same, have most of the issues in paper....just in case.
 
Pinto Yates said:
I don’t think it’s been hijacked, it has evolved. I think we’ve reached the point where the tech is super efficient at the same time the costs have declined greatly and education to learn DIY is free online. So now more folks than ever before can build their own personal power plant that’ll run on free sunlight. Many reasons why this makes sense and I’m good with any reason that makes sense for you.

Until they figure out how to tax sunshine (and you know they’re trying), I believe we’re living in the golden age of personal solar power right now.
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They have started, they require permits where I live and they are by the KW of installed panels. Homeowners are heavily scrutinized if DIY and even threatened with re-inspections(for any offenses, which,require a fee of course). In addition, they recently passed an ordnance that if anything is modified, it will be to required all things be brought to the current "code" aka the entire building/property, more fees, more inspetions. Installed before the new ordnance, be prepared to prove it and that it has not been upgraded, expanded or modified. Permits are to be denied or the fines are double what permits might have been prior.
 
exmarkretired said:
They have started, they require permits where I live and they are by the KW of installed panels. Homeowners are heavily scrutinized if DIY and even threatened with re-inspections(for any offenses, which,require a fee of course). In addition, they recently passed an ordnance that if anything is modified, it will be to required all things be brought to the current "code" aka the entire building/property, more fees, more inspetions. Installed before the new ordnance, be prepared to prove it and that it has not been upgraded, expanded or modified. Permits are to be denied or the fines are double what permits might have been prior.
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what state is that?
 
Q-Dog said:
The simple answer is, solar got cheap enough for the average person.
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Yes, I have had small solar projects before. Now I have a system big enough I have shaved $100 off my HVAC this summer. Now my addiction caused me to buy more panels from SanTan. Hoping to trench before the ground freezes...

Plus side is I am energy "independent" for almost a day. Have a diesel generator for after that. Have jumped into WMO for my old IDI truck. Being self sufficient is hard to place a monetary value on. Also have a wood stove and some 18v fans :) DC brushless are incredibly efficient.

And I get lots of exercise going up and down the stairs to check my batteries LOL.
 
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dougbert said:
what state is that?
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Wisconsin, I live in the municipality of Foxconned. Seriously looking to move....to a more "rural" area. Was a wonderful place to live, but now we have curb and gutter, kids who went to school to tell us how to live etc.... (urban planners) Had to explain fire wood and heating a home to him...

But thing changes not always bad, out village idiots usually run, get something passed and then the next bigger better idea comes along... like all thing good and bad, just wait an election cycle...
 
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Nobodybusiness said:
Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can..
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I dont believe the writing on the wall could be any more clear.

It is my understanding that grid power will be vastly more expensive when >50% of people use EVs and that will most likely take a decade to fix brown out issues and find price parity with the "new world" of electric everything.

Oh and there is that murmur of "extremists" targeting the power grid.

Then there is that pesky carrington event that happened in 1859. Most agree that it will happen again and our magnetosphere is much weaker than in 1859.

When the government starts to mumble about things, it usually is a nice slow rollout to catastrophic end. :)
 
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