diy solar

diy solar

Mounting question - how much does pitch matter

Leaves 12kwh wasted solar you aren't going to get your hands on, a bigger battery won't solve this fully but it does help mitigate. Or you could just run air conditioning all summer ?
When you size a solar power system to meet a targeted need, and you cover that 100%, and therefore your plans and expectations on cost are being met excess solar energy (unused potential) is never “wasted.”
While there are some who diverge- we don’t drive our cars worrying about the lost energy (heat) in operation that we see no gain from, or get overly concerned with the refrigerated ‘open cases’ when we buy (and pay for the refrigeration expenses) produce at the grocery store, nor fret and upset ourselves about the tempered water cost that goes down the drain when we shower…

Once the “cost of entry” is dispersed and output expectations are met, solar power that is not used doesn’t cost anything.
 
we don’t drive our cars worrying about the lost energy (heat) in operation that we see no gain from, or get overly concerned with the refrigerated ‘open cases’ when we buy (and pay for the refrigeration expenses) produce at the grocery store, nor fret and upset ourselves about the tempered water cost that goes down the drain when we shower…

Speak for yourself ?
 
The roof is angled away from the sun, have you posted the angle?
Sure, it costs money to add risers/angled stands to solar. But if your roof is angled at 15° or something, you'll almost nothing out of it in the winter. Adding more panels can compensate, but that's a lot more panels.

Wasted excess solar costs me £0.345p/kWh,
Explain
 
£0.345p is exactly what it's going to cost me to buy per KWh from the mains when I need it later on down the line. Also it's explain PLEASE , manners maketh the man ?
Please and thank you, sir! ?
I'm not sure I understand how wasted excess solar means you need to buy from the grid. Excess means excess, right? As in, you didn't need power. Unless you're saying you need more battery capacity to store more power, but in that case, I wouldn't call it excess.
 
Please and thank you, sir! ?
I'm not sure I understand how wasted excess solar means you need to buy from the grid. Excess means excess, right? As in, you didn't need power. Unless you're saying you need more battery capacity to store more power, but in that case, I wouldn't call it excess.

I guess it depends on how you look at it , as soon as I have extra power we try and run things , for instance the tumble dryer, or water tank heater . Or I will do the days cooking on electric while the sun is shining

These are all things I'd have to do later on, either by battery or mains power , the later of which costs me a bleeding fortune !

Anyway I think we may be going a little off topic ?
 
But there are some draw backs, of course it goes without saying, if there is a power cut in winter your batteries will empty in a matter of hours
I’m not too worried about this in my circumstances. A power cut of more than a a few days Is highly unlikely except in the circumstances of a natural disaster (earthquakes are common here). If there was a disaster we can scale back our usage. I also have a seperate cabin on the property which is fully off grid with 3 days of storage.
Leaves 12kwh wasted solar you aren't going to get your hands on, a bigger battery won't solve this fully but it does help mitigate. Or you could just run air conditioning all summer ?
I think it’s just not worth storing the excess power. My thinking is that:
- my grid supplier pays me $0.125 a kWh to sell back to the grid so i could sell my wasted 12kW for $1.50 a day.
- LifePO4 storage currently costs me $1,000 a kWh ($12,000 to store 12 kWh).
- I would need 8,000 high production days for the extra storage to offset the buy back value. If there are 90 high production days a year that’s around 88 years for the storage to be worthwhile.

The cost of storage vs using the grid looks so high I’m wondering if I have this right.

All this is in New Zealand dollars, which is why cost of batteries is high. A 5 kWh SOK Server Rack battery costs me $4,000 New Zealand dollars including cabling. I’ve assumed I will get 4 kWh usable storage from a 5 kWh battery.
 
Since you are in the Southern Hemisphere, I have to ask: do you mean Dec-Mar = "summer" /Jun-Sept = Winter?)
That is correct - summer down here is Dec to Feb, autumn is Mar to May, winter is June to Aug, and spring Sep to Nov.

Our annual production looks like this:
IMG_0464.jpeg
I expect you already realize, the system will not meet the target you set in the first paragraph. You would need more PV - or better positioning of the PV you are planning - to bring in close to "50% of use"
I realise this … now. This thread has been super helpful.

My thoughts are: from the outset you are not attempting to supply all the loads with solar, in fact you appear to be more interested in being able to use all the solar you are able to collect.
Yes, my goals are to use as much of the power as possible so that the system is paid for by offsetting my power bills. The added bonus will be a little more energy independence.
Small battery makes sense in this case, as you know going in, the solar will not supply all loads and you have no expectation that you have solar (from battery) for days of poor weather. This tells me you only need enough battery for one night of use. The next day if sunny will recharge for the next night, if cloudy your on grid anyway. Also you noted ToU low rates at night for recharging, so again you don't need 2-3 days of ESS only 0.5days.
I would target 20kWh of ESS to have some room in the bottom end - avoid draining the batteries too low too often.
Thanks - this sounds like good advice.
 
The cost of storage vs using the grid looks so high I’m wondering if I have this right.
would need 8,000 high production days for the extra storage to offset the buy back value. If there are 90 high production days a year that’s around 88 years for the storage to be worthwhile.

LifePO4 storage currently costs me $1,000 a kWh ($12,000 to store 12 kWh)
New Zealand dollars… hmmm

But consider a 12-year minimum life cycle.

But it sounds like you have it figured out.
 
New Zealand dollars… hmmm
- my grid supplier pays me $0.125 a kWh to sell back to the grid so i could sell my wasted 12kW for $1.50 a day.
A 5 kWh SOK Server Rack battery costs me $4,000 New Zealand dollars including cabling.
1 NZ dollar (today) is 61-cents USD.
So the OP is at a disadvantage to buy server racks, could save $$ going with DIY and cells from China, perhaps half the cost of the server racks.
On the flip side, if he pays 12.5cents/kWh, the conversion of this to USD = 7.625-cents in USD, pretty cheap power. Actually the OP noted TOU rates and may pay less than this rate at night.

Starting into solar in 2020, I struggled with this myself, our local power is cheap, but solar parts/inverters/batteries are pricy (and more so for my rural location) making the use-case for solar less attractive. The tipping point for me was my business is next door, and paying people to stand in the dark cost me enough to do something better than pulling out the Honda to get the lights back on! :ROFLMAO:
 
That phrase is poor English
Sorry I’m being a word nazi ?
The appearance of this phrase in colloquial us english language is descriptive bankruptcy. Just say what you mean LOL
the conversion of this to USD = 7.625-cents in USD, pretty cheap power
Holy cow, yes!
That like 1/3 of local to me.
But I don’t care. The wires pass my property but don’t stop in for a connection. :)
 
Sounds like someone is getting castrated ?
But I digress, I felt that way every time I paid my electric bill ?
In my case however I paid as in taxes and "fees" as I was in the actual electric I used ? and that is just not right!
 
1 NZ dollar (today) is 61-cents USD.
So the OP is at a disadvantage to buy server racks, could save $$ going with DIY and cells from China, perhaps half the cost of the server racks.
On the flip side, if he pays 12.5cents/kWh, the conversion of this to USD = 7.625-cents in USD, pretty cheap power. Actually the OP noted TOU rates and may pay less than this rate at night.

Thanks. Just to clarify 12.5 cents NZD (7.625 cents USD) cents my sell back rate. The amount I pay for power ranges from 16.1c/kWh to 32.3/kWh depending on the time of day. So that’s between around 9.6c to 19.29c in USD.

I’ve looked into cells from China but the price of shipping makes it uneconomic unless I buy in very large quantities.

However, I have today found a local supply who is offering 48v 5kWh batteries at $NZ560 a kW for grade A new cells - which is much more affordable. In the worst case I could just buy this battery and if necessary change the BMS.
 
Hi

I have a newbie question. I’m putting panels on the roof of my house. The panels will face due north (I’m in New Zealand) however my (flat) roof pitches slightly down to the south. All the solar installers I’ve spoken to are keen to mount the panels with tilt legs so that the pitch of the roof is corrected and the panels with face the sun straight on at midday.

I’m keen to install the panels flat on the roof and accept that the pitch does not directly face the sun. I know this is not optimal for generation, but:
- tilting legs are expensive, I can use that money to buy and install more panels
- using legs to tilt the panels up will be less attractive than our current streamlined roof

So my question is how much generation will I loose due to the sub-optimal pitch of panels? If they will generate 50% less power I’m wondering if I can just install twice the number of panels to address this.
I know i'm late to this party but ... there are very few *offgrid* situations in the design phase where the cost of tilt kits is justified in a capital cost vs production assessment when compared to adding more panels.

Some of the situations where tilt kits are justified are;
- The angle away from the sun is large
- The roof space is a limiting factor
- Additional panels cannot be found that match the spec (although this is found in the re-design or upgrade phase, not the design phase)

The underlying principals for this are;
- In general, for offgrid, you need to capture your baseline energy requirements on as many days as possible, not maximise your theoretical energy capture on the best days, or put another way, maximise the worst days capture, not the best days.
- If you maximise your energy capture on direct-sun days, you will be necessarily hurting your energy capture on scattered-light (overcast) days
- The optimal clean-panel angle for overcast days is zero degrees (ie dead flat, allowing the panel to capture light from the whole hemisphere above you)

What comes from these principals are these ideas;
- most of the time, adding more panels will be a better solution
- aluminium (mounts and tilt kits) generate no power, so invest in panels not mounts

Once you get into the design phase where you are picking your panels and controllers then other rules might start to influence your decisions, such as your controller's max Voc.

In NZ you won't see solar farms with low angles, because overcast days are a write-off for them, (they make about 30% compared to a direct-sun day), and instead they are optimised for direct-sun days (which is logical given they are there to make money, not provide daily reliable power)
 
there are very few *offgrid* situations in the design phase where the cost of tilt kits is justified in a capital cost vs production assessment when compared to adding more panels.
Except for those of us who live with snow.
At 30-degree tilt, my panels would be buried in it all winter. Tilting up to 70-72 degrees makes snow removal nearly self performing, and I get better solar collection as a small bonus.
 
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