12v pump won't turn on

[whittakerj]

I'm with MisterSandles, I would have expected that SCC to support a 20 amp load.
But, considering it does, you might as well use it.

Post your settings, you've probably got something to change to enable the load port to work as you desire. Someone can assist with charger settings too, if you post those.

Most importantly, get some ring terminals! ?
The copper strands shoved under the terminals isn't going to cut it. That's a very poor connection.
Ideally some ferrules at the charge controller, but that not so far from correct as is.

It's just for testing. I have the terminals. I didn't want to crimp the cables until I install on the pole.

 

[whittakerj]

Its still rather curious that i was not running your 10A pump. I wonder if the surge/startup amps were too much (maybe 3-5x running amps) for it to start.

Or maybe the load port is turned off (i think its off by default).

Still, if i'm paying top dollar for a tier 1 SCCs, i'm not going to run big loads on it. The 100/20's are about $125 which is not bad. It may be so handy its worth it. And, the 5 year warranty is nice as insurance.

Post a pic of your Victron settings. There are a LOT of eyes here that are willing to help you out.

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

 

[whittakerj]

In the screenshot, it literally says the load is off.

It says off if nothing is pulling amperage. I know it's on because I have two flood lights and a camera connected to it.

 

[whittakerj]

Heh, heh. Hidden in plain sight! Good catch.
I still wonder how it handles a 10A water pumps surge amps... this isn't something i have seen discussed.

View attachment 127275

Does this if there is no load.

 

[OzSolar]

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

Most of these 12v DC pumps are diaphragm style (like and RV pump but submersible) and don't have any appreciable surge amps. That's what it looks like to me but I'm often wrong.

Have you put a DVM on the load output terminals while while the load is turned on and the pump is not running?

You have plenty of everything to run that pump for a while.
It says 10A x 12.8V = 1280W

Off by a decimal point. 128 watts

 

[PVorBust]

Most of these 12v DC pumps are diaphragm style

Can't read the model number, but the pumps I've seen in that case are all screw type.
For the final install, a better pump with a soft-start controller may be a better option.

 

[OzSolar]

Can't read the model number, but the pumps I've seen in that case are all screw type.
For the final install, a better pump with a soft-start controller may be a better option.

Screw pump? I'm not familiar with that style. We've done a around a hundred solar water pumping systems and I haven't seen any pump referred to as a screw that I can recall. Could be regional thing though. Hmnn.. I could see why people would call a helical rotor pump a screw pump. Regardless, I'm 99% confident that's a diaphragm style pump in that short of a case.

Many of the ones we do are Grundfos SQFlex which is either a helical rotor or centrifugal depending on the model. But we have had our hands on plenty of these low cost pumps as well and they are all diaphragm style and they don't have any surge to speak of. Wish I had one here to test.

Also, I'm not aware a "soft start" for a DC pump. It could benefit from a solar pump controller which both acts as MPPT to run the modules directly to the pump and a pump controller to shut the pump off when pressure is met or tanks are full, etc.

Took a second and found the part # on Alibaba. It's a diaphragm.

 

[PVorBust]

A "SURGEFLO" HaHaHa - as close to Sureflo as you can get without being sued!

When I bought my first (looks the same as above), it was supplied with a Replacement "screw" (as described by the manufacture).
It looks like this:


Now you've made me look, everything in that case now does seem to be a diaphragm type (I haven't looked since mine was delivered).

DC into the controller and 3ph down to the pump is the common way to do a soft start (with many other benefits), but adds to the cost.

 

[OzSolar]

A "SURGEFLO" HaHaHa - as close to Sureflo as you can get without being sued!

When I bought my first (looks the same as above), it was supplied with a Replacement "screw" (as described by the manufacture).
It looks like this:

Ha I hadn't connected those dots. LOL

That's definitely a helical rotor.

DC into the controller and 3ph down to the pump is the common way to do a soft start (with many other benefits), but adds to the cost.

We just did one that took DC and spit out 3 phase AC to the pump. It was the usual poorly documented Chinese pump so it was a bit of of head scratcher when it came to hook up the three wires to the pump.

Should run for about 10 hours (less because of inefficiencies) on a fully charged battery alone.

EDIT: Oops, thanks @OzSolar
But this shouldn't be causing OP's problem.

You're welcome. I agree that it likely has nothing to do with the OP's issue.

I'd still like to hear what thier DVM says is on the "load" terminals when they are trying to run the pump.

Edit to fix typos

 

[PVorBust]

We just did one that took DC and spit out 3 phase AC to the pump. It was the usual poorly documented Chinese pump so it was a bit of of head scratcher when it came to hook up the three wires to the pump.

I've installed one of that type from my own use in the deep bore. I ordered direct and got a special build - for a modest additional fee (and waiting for delivery instead of local dispatch) I received a pump with 50m of cable.
The two advantages are:
1. there are no joins under water
2. I'm confident the phase colours at the top are correct!

#1 has obvious benefits.
#2 unfortunately (I suspect this is what you found), the manual doesn't mention the correct connections - just that the pump will run backwards if you get it wrong.

 

[jjchvl]

Anyone decide why the 20amp load port on his charge controller wouldnt run a 10amp pump? And Im also curious to know what folk think of those particular pumps. I plan to drop a well next fall and use one of those same type of pumps. They all look like theyre made in the same factory in China, so I wont bother getting picky about a brand name. Anyway, Im mostly just curious. The load ports on my particular 60amp controllers max out at 10amps, I believe but even if they went to 20amps, I wouldnt try to run a water pump from a load port. More power to anyone who can and wants to though. My thought is that a lot of Chinese "no name" electricals on Ebay are not rated truthfully. If a seller knows that he has a "solar" audience that desires appliances which use fewer amps, he will often advertise his product as using fewer amps than it does. Same priniciple in say 18650 lithium batteries. A ton of sellers advertise those with over 10000 OR MORE!! maH's because they know theres lots of someone's out there who are impressed with big numbers and dont know that the best 18650s made by Samsung top out at 3000maH's. Anyway, back to the pump: Perhaps their 10amp rating isnt truthful. Perhaps they are higher running amps and even higher start up amps. That may explain why a load port rated for 20amps wont run a pump advertised to use just 10amps. Be cool to have the OP clip an amp meter around the power cord to his pump and see what the pump actually pulls in reality.

 

[jjchvl]

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

Do you have an amp meter? Or know of one you can borrow? Im curious to know just how many amps that pump pulls. I want to drop a well next fall and am considering using the same type of pump in the well. I strongly suspect that the power consumption of those pumps is purposely mislabeled by the manufacturer to make the pumps look more attractive to us solar power folk. It would be interesting to see if Im right and if so, by how much. Either way, Ill still probably buy one of the pumps lol! Even if the pumps pull 15amps with a surge of 20amps, the pumps are pretty cheap and my system could deal with it. Its not like the pump would be running much.

 

[jjchvl]

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

Sorry, just one more thought and Ill stop spamming this thread. Perhaps the pump IS properly rated at 10amps but only when there isnt a work load involved. What I mean, is the pump will surely pull more amps trying to push water up from a well, especially a deep well, than if you're dry testing it in the "air" or even wet testing it in a bucket of water. In the later two cases, the pump may require just 10amps or less to operate. In the case of pushing up water from a well, it will require significantly more power. This might be how the manufacturer can get away with labeling the pump at 10amps. Just a thought.

 

[PVorBust]

Ebay seller not being completely honest - surely you jest

10A is a lot of power for a pump to draw if it's less than full load
@OzSolar , do you have an opinion as the lifespan of the helical/screw pumps?
For myself, the cheap pump was planned for a low priority use, but for the more critical location, I organized a higher spec pump.

 

[jjchvl]

Ebay seller not being completely honest - surely you jest

10A is a lot of power for a pump to draw if it's less than full load
@OzSolar , do you have an opinion as the lifespan of the helical/screw pumps?
For myself, the cheap pump was planned for a low priority use, but for the more critical location, I organized a higher spec pump.

10amps does seem a pretty heavy draw for a pump that's doing no work but you have to wonder why the fella's 20amp port wont run his 10amp pump so thats why Im...wondering. The pump in my RV pulls up to 8 amps max. I imagine that happens only toward the tail end of its cycle as it brings the lines back to pressure (35 or 45psi? I cant remember exactly now). But my RV pump doesnt have to "lift" or "push" water any higher than a couple of feet from a holding tank and then to fixtures. My RV pump is a quality, name brand pump (that I just replaced last year ) so is pretty true to specs. Id be super interested to know what the OP's pump pulls for current while pushing water up from 100 feet AND maintaining line pressure as its listing states the pump is capable of doing. Anyway, What would be extremely helpful AND appreciated is if anyone here knows for sure what current the OP's pump will pull under full, advertised capable function or better yet! If the OP can get ahold of an amp meter, tell us how deep his well is and then measure how much current the pump pulls while the pump is pumping water up from his well. Sorry about the long-winded posts. I always worry I wont get my point across accurately if I take explanation short cuts.

 

[jjchvl]

Ebay seller not being completely honest - surely you jest

10A is a lot of power for a pump to draw if it's less than full load
@OzSolar , do you have an opinion as the lifespan of the helical/screw pumps?
For myself, the cheap pump was planned for a low priority use, but for the more critical location, I organized a higher spec pump.

Also, it seems that this thread is quickly moving away from the OP's original enquiry and more into comparing various styles of pumps and so on. I was hoping to re-connect with the OP about his issue before he stopped checking in.