12v pump won't turn on

[whittakerj]

I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm trying to power a 12v submersible pump off solar and battery. The issue is it won't power on. I know the setup works because I can hook smaller devices up to it. I know the pump works because I can power it with an independent DC power supply.

So I'm not sure if I miscalculated the number of batteries I need? Or do I need to add more solar panels?

How should I add additional panels and batteries in parallel or in series?

I have the following setup.
2 trina 275w panels in series.

A 12v water pump


Battery




Mppt controller



When I connect everything this is the output I'm getting.

 

[MisterSandals]

I know the setup works because I can hook smaller devices up to it. I know the pump works because I can power it with an independent DC power supply.

Exactly where are you connecting the pump?
Have a pic of your wiring?

You have plenty of everything to run that pump for a while.
It says 10A x 12.8V = 1280W <---- should be 128W

100Ah x 12.8V nominal = 1280Wh

Should run for about 10 hours (less because of inefficiencies) on a fully charged battery alone.

EDIT: Oops, thanks @OzSolar
But this shouldn't be causing OP's problem.

 

[whittakerj]

Exactly where are you connecting the pump?
Have a pic of your wiring?

You have plenty of everything to run that pump for a while.
It says 10A x 12.8V = 1280W

100Ah x 12.8V nominal = 1280Wh

Should run for about an hour (less because of inefficiencies) on a fully charged battery alone.

 

[whittakerj]

 

[MisterSandals]

Exactly where are you connecting the pump?

I think i see your problem. You need to connect the pump to the battery. :*)

And its probably a bad idea to have a switch for disconnecting your battery from your SCC. The SCC NEEDS to be connected to the battery before the panels. Put the switch on the + wire of your array.

 

[whittakerj]

I think i see your problem. You need to connect the pump to the battery. :*)

And its probably a bad idea to have a switch for disconnecting your battery from your SCC. The SCC NEEDS to be connected to the battery before the panels. Put the switch on the + wire of your array.

This is just temporary to test. I forgot the pump is not in this pic. It's in the load port of mppt

 

[MisterSandals]

It's in the load port of mppt

Thats your problem. The load port is made for trivial loads, NOT a 10A pump.
Connect the pump to the battery, the battery is made for this.

 

[whittakerj]

Interesting, ok. Should I buy a bigger mppt controller so I can connect to the load? Or is there no harm in going direct to battery?

If I go direct to battery it seems some of the smarts of the mppt will be lost.

Thats your problem. The load port is made for trivial loads, NOT a 10A pump.
Connect the pump to the battery, the battery is made for this.

 

[MisterSandals]

Should I buy a bigger mppt controller so I can connect to the load?

No, a charge controller is made to control charging. Batteries are made to supply loads. What is your aversion to connecting your pump to the battery?

If I go direct to battery it seems some of the smarts of the mppt will be lost.

You mean the ability to turn things on and off with the load port? You can use the load port to power a contractor/solenoid for larger loads. This is fairly common practice. You size the contractor for your load of course.

Something like this. You won't need 150A but there are many choices.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0932F4ZWM

80A

https://www.amazon.com/Rodgers-Continuous-Contactor-Solenoid-Isolator/dp/B07MV4WJ7K/

 

[PVorBust]

What is your aversion to connecting your pump to the battery?

For me, the two desirable reasons for using the Load Port for the load is:
a/ low voltage cutout
b/ being able to see the PV/charge/load characteristics over the network

 

[MisterSandals]

I did some checking and this 100/20 is supposed to handle 20A continuous, so i stand corrected.
I still don't like the idea of stressing an expensive SCC with loads - maybe your thoughts are different (? more aligned with reality?).

Make sure the load port is enabled in the app.

 

[PVorBust]

Only speaking for myself - I'm running Epever SCC and keep the load very modest compared to the spec for the same reasons as you.

 

[whittakerj]

No, a charge controller is made to control charging. Batteries are made to supply loads. What is your aversion to connecting your pump to the battery?

You mean the ability to turn things on and off with the load port? You can use the load port to power a contractor/solenoid for larger loads. This is fairly common practice. You size the contractor for your load of course.

Something like this. You won't need 150A but there are many choices.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0932F4ZWM

80A

https://www.amazon.com/Rodgers-Continuous-Contactor-Solenoid-Isolator/dp/B07MV4WJ7K/

So I hooked it up directly to the battery and it's been running good for a few hours. Appreciate the tip.

In regards to the load port. I prefer to use it because I can then see all the statistics around the load, battery, and solar independently.

Also, I'm no battery charging expert but there are a ton of settings in this mppt controller around charging the battery to preserve its life. I imagine with the load connected directly to the battery it makes it impossible for the mppt to be an efficient BMS albeit, again, I'm no expert.

 

[400bird]

I'm with MisterSandles, I would have expected that SCC to support a 20 amp load.
But, considering it does, you might as well use it.

Post your settings, you've probably got something to change to enable the load port to work as you desire. Someone can assist with charger settings too, if you post those.

Most importantly, get some ring terminals! ?
The copper strands shoved under the terminals isn't going to cut it. That's a very poor connection.
Ideally some ferrules at the charge controller, but that not so far from correct as is.

 

[MisterSandals]

In regards to the load port. I prefer to use it because I can then see all the statistics around the load, battery, and solar independently.

Its still rather curious that i was not running your 10A pump. I wonder if the surge/startup amps were too much (maybe 3-5x running amps) for it to start.

Or maybe the load port is turned off (i think its off by default).

Still, if i'm paying top dollar for a tier 1 SCCs, i'm not going to run big loads on it. The 100/20's are about $125 which is not bad. It may be so handy its worth it. And, the 5 year warranty is nice as insurance.

Post a pic of your Victron settings. There are a LOT of eyes here that are willing to help you out.

 

[Bud Martin]

BTW, if you hookup a 12V dc lamp to the Load port, does the lamp light up?

 

[Bud Martin]

OK, I read OP post #1 again and it sounds like OP's saying the Load port does work:
"The issue is it won't power on. I know the setup works because I can hook smaller devices up to it. I know the pump works because I can power it with an independent DC power supply."

 

[400bird]

In the screenshot, it literally says the load is off.

 

[MisterSandals]

In the screenshot, it literally says the load is off.

Heh, heh. Hidden in plain sight! Good catch.
I still wonder how it handles a 10A water pumps surge amps... this isn't something i have seen discussed.

 

[400bird]

I wish I could say I saw that initially, I only noticed it in response to Bud's post.

If only I was that observation. I feel like I'm half blind some days. I've spent 30 minutes looks for a wrench I was holding on 5 minutes prior ?

 

[whittakerj]

I'm with MisterSandles, I would have expected that SCC to support a 20 amp load.
But, considering it does, you might as well use it.

Post your settings, you've probably got something to change to enable the load port to work as you desire. Someone can assist with charger settings too, if you post those.

Most importantly, get some ring terminals! ?
The copper strands shoved under the terminals isn't going to cut it. That's a very poor connection.
Ideally some ferrules at the charge controller, but that not so far from correct as is.

It's just for testing. I have the terminals. I didn't want to crimp the cables until I install on the pole.

 

[whittakerj]

Its still rather curious that i was not running your 10A pump. I wonder if the surge/startup amps were too much (maybe 3-5x running amps) for it to start.

Or maybe the load port is turned off (i think its off by default).

Still, if i'm paying top dollar for a tier 1 SCCs, i'm not going to run big loads on it. The 100/20's are about $125 which is not bad. It may be so handy its worth it. And, the 5 year warranty is nice as insurance.

Post a pic of your Victron settings. There are a LOT of eyes here that are willing to help you out.

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

 

[whittakerj]

In the screenshot, it literally says the load is off.

It says off if nothing is pulling amperage. I know it's on because I have two flood lights and a camera connected to it.

 

[whittakerj]

Heh, heh. Hidden in plain sight! Good catch.
I still wonder how it handles a 10A water pumps surge amps... this isn't something i have seen discussed.

View attachment 127275

Does this if there is no load.

 

[OzSolar]

Yea, it has to be the startup amps that it can't handle.

Most of these 12v DC pumps are diaphragm style (like and RV pump but submersible) and don't have any appreciable surge amps. That's what it looks like to me but I'm often wrong.

Have you put a DVM on the load output terminals while while the load is turned on and the pump is not running?

You have plenty of everything to run that pump for a while.
It says 10A x 12.8V = 1280W

Off by a decimal point. 128 watts